Audio of Hyundai Sonata knock with non-OE filter

[stephen9666]

There have been a couple threads recently about the possibility of Hyundai/Kia vehicles knocking with aftermarket filters. That spurred me to dig up an audio recording I made with my phone when my 2007 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L was knocking. The 2.4 uses a spin-on filter. The V6 models use a cartridge filter.

This was just under two years ago, a few months after I bought the car. The engine started knocking not long after changing the oil and installing a Champ Labs made STP filter from Autozone. I had read the TSBs about aftermarket filters possibly causing a knock, but I didn't think it could be so loud. When I heard this knocking I thought the engine was shot, but a genuine Hyundai filter fixed it and it never returned.

I don't know if the STP filter that caused the knock was an Ecore or not. I have another STP filter I bought at the same time and it is not an Ecore.

When I bought the car it had a Fram orange can installed and it didn't knock. I've also used a Beck Arnley filter without trouble.

I thought turning the audio into a youtube video would be the easiest way to share it. Here it is:

 

[Dakota1820]

Holy cow that sounds bad!!

 

[Azeem]

is that a knock or knock + misfire, can't really determine.

 

[coolbird101]

Wow! Now thats a KNOCK...

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Azeem
is that a knock or knock + misfire, can't really determine.


It drove fine while it was knocking, and it didn't set off a CEL, so I don't think it was misfiring.

My girlfriend was behind the wheel while I was recording. I asked her to rev it up, but it was knocking so loud that she was afraid to rev it very much. She was just giving the gas pedal little stabs at first, which may be why you think you hear misfiring.

 

[Azeem]

That's why then.Did you ever go back to the OE filter and did this knock go away?,Always thought Hyundai's 2.4 I4 were reliable.Guess not?

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Azeem
Did you ever go back to the OE filter and did this knock go away?,Always thought Hyundai's 2.4 I4 were reliable.Guess not?


You must have missed this bit in the original post:
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
a genuine Hyundai filter fixed it and it never returned.


I've driven more than 20k miles since the knock happened and the engine has had no problems. My Sonata has not been reliable, but the engine has been problem free. From what I've read, the 2.4 engines have few problems and are pretty solid, overall.

 

[Azeem]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
You must have missed this bit in the original post:.a genuine Hyundai filter fixed it and it never returned.


Sure did.I still like 09/10 Sonata/Azera as my next vehicle with 3.3 engine though.Was shopping around for one but Dealers' prices were steep,so I'm holding on my Sunfire for a while.

 

[LeakySeals]

I hear a loose timing chain rattling against the guides, hitting valve cover, etc. My guess is oil pressure to the timing chain tensioner is being impacted by something. Oil filter choice? If so thats one really weak oil pump. I say replace the tensioner. Cheap fix. Bad filter adbv is a startup problem, not a continued noise like that. Even then I would not blame the filter, I would look for oil flow problems at the OCV, its screen and problems unlocking the VVT controller mechanism. Sounds like a general oil flow/pressure/design issue being masked by free flowing/low efficiency oil filters. Find out if the timing chain tensioner, oil control valve or the oil pump has been updated. Bet one of them has, and they are keeping quiet about it. If they can sell low efficiency high flow filters instead of warranty, why not.

 

[Rand]

there is a TSB about aftermarket filters..

says basically if its making wack noises use oem filter.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I hear a loose timing chain rattling against the guides, hitting valve cover, etc.


I agree that's what it sounds like. I've also read on a Hyundai forum that a mechanic told a member there that the knocking noise is the timing chain hitting the timing cover.


Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
My guess is oil pressure to the timing chain tensioner is being impacted by something. Oil filter choice? If so thats one really weak oil pump. I say replace the tensioner.


The car doesn't need repairs. You may not be aware that this is a known issue on Hyundais and the company has issued two TSBs about it.

I just posted this video to let people hear the knocking. If you see above, the knocking went away after using a different filter and never returned.

 

[LeakySeals]

I didn't know that, it re-affirms my original post..

"Sounds like a general oil flow/pressure/design issue being masked by free flowing/low efficiency oil filters. Find out if the timing chain tensioner, oil control valve or the oil pump has been updated. Bet one of them has, and they are keeping quiet about it. If they can sell low efficiency high flow filters instead of warranty, why not."

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I didn't know that, it re-affirms my original post..

"Sounds like a general oil flow/pressure/design issue being masked by free flowing/low efficiency oil filters. Find out if the timing chain tensioner, oil control valve or the oil pump has been updated. Bet one of them has, and they are keeping quiet about it. If they can sell low efficiency high flow filters instead of warranty, why not."


Well, the knocking sound only happens with a small minority of aftermarket filters. Also, if you note, the TSBs cover multiple years and models. I find it hard to believe Hyundai installed faulty tensioners or oil pumps on all models for years and years.

The V6 Sonata models did have faulty tensioners in the early years, but those caused knocking on startup with any filter. Many were repaired under warranty. The 4 cylinder models don't suffer the same problem.

The oil control valve has been updated, but it doesn't cause a knock. It causes a CEL. My car has the updated part. I'm not aware of an updated oil pump, or at least I've never read about one.

You're welcome to believe it's a grand conspiracy to avoid warranty replacements, but from my experience and reading about the issue that may not be it.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I hear a loose timing chain rattling against the guides, hitting valve cover, etc. My guess is oil pressure to the timing chain tensioner is being impacted by something. Oil filter choice? If so thats one really weak oil pump. I say replace the tensioner. Cheap fix. Bad filter adbv is a startup problem, not a continued noise like that. Even then I would not blame the filter, I would look for oil flow problems at the OCV, its screen and problems unlocking the VVT controller mechanism. Sounds like a general oil flow/pressure/design issue being masked by free flowing/low efficiency oil filters. Find out if the timing chain tensioner, oil control valve or the oil pump has been updated. Bet one of them has, and they are keeping quiet about it. If they can sell low efficiency high flow filters instead of warranty, why not.


Absolutely agreed. Imagining they would actually CARE about their clients would be almost silly, as they would sell their Mom if they could make a buck on it.

 

[LeakySeals]

Conspiracy?

no, thats too dramatic for me. The need for a Hyundai filter to keep a Hyundai from knocking has me asking why, thats all.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Conspiracy?

no, thats too dramatic for me. The need for a Hyundai filter to keep a Hyundai from knocking has me asking why, thats all.


Yeah, I love Hyundais, but unfortunately this just seems like bad engineering. Any engine in this day and age should be built with a certain level of tolerance to survive in the real world, on a variety of aftermarket parts. I would be extremely miffed if I had to always have Hyundai genuine filters to stop the engine from sounding like all the flywheel bolts were loose

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Conspiracy?

no, thats too dramatic for me. The need for a Hyundai filter to keep a Hyundai from knocking has me asking why, thats all.


Well, again, it seems to be a small minority of aftermarket filters that cause a knock. I personally have used Fram and Beck Arnley aftermarket filters and haven't had an issue. I only had a knock with the Champ Labs filter. So, it doesn't "need" a Hyundai filter to keep it from knocking.

IMO, it's just something for Hyundai owners to be aware of, so if it ever happens with an aftermarket filter they'll know what to check.

 

[KCJeep]

Absolutely thanks for posting.

From what I've been able to tell from pics the Beck-Arnley and Fram cartridge filters for the KIA/Hyundia's are the exact same filter, but I've not used either yet.

Good info clearly any Hyundai/KIA owner that experiences strange engine knock would be well served to look at the filter first.

I wonder if this is also why Hyundai/KIA are so insistent on changing the filter every OCI and no filter is to go beyond 7,500 miles, I wonder if they are worried about flow problems even with OEM.

 

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep

From what I've been able to tell from pics the Beck-Arnley and Fram cartridge filters for the KIA/Hyundia's are the exact same filter, but I've not used either yet.


In my case, the 2.4 uses a spin-on filter.

The Beck/Arnley filter I used looked like it may have had some minor cosmetic differences from an OE filter. I kept it, so when I take off my current OE filter I'll post some pics of the two.

 

[Sayjac]

First, afaik the 05 tsb is referring to canister/spin on, not cartridge filters. I'm running a Napa Gold/Wix cartridge on my 3.8L Genesis, and have been for several oil changes with zero issues. Quality and construction every bit as good as OEM for significantly less money. I've posted pics a couple times, here and here.

I also read a post saying that Fram and Beck Arnley cartridge are the same as Kia/Hyundai OEM. While I can't say about the B/A, I can state that for a fact the Fram application for the 3.8L is NOT the same. It is made in China as opposed to S. Korea like the Napa Gold/Wix and Purolator, the same as OEM. The Puro looks the same as NG/Wix, the Fram sold at Wally doesn't look as well made.

Now to the topic. In the OP's case the STP S2808, which is the spec filter for the 2.4L seemed to cause a noise in the OP vehicle. There are two observable differnces between the H/K oem and the S2808, besides the media. The S2808 has a nitrile adbv as opposed to silicone for the oem. And the STP uses a 'clicker type' bypass as opposed to a coil spring type bypass for the oem. The clicker bypass is an odd design, and some reading suggests it may be suspect in some applications. Basically it's Champ's lowest tier filter now equivalent to the Microgard and Wally TLE filter. So, my conclusion is that it's one aftermarket filter that didn't work in that 2.4L. I wouldn't or couldn't conclude that another higher tier aftermarket filter with silicone adbv and dome sping bypass would do the same. So in this case the S2808 for whatever reason, is not a filter that seems to work well in the OP's 2.4L.

Otoh, I ran said S2808 ~8k miles in a Civic, shown in the linked thread, with no issues. While it wouldn't be my first choice for in an aftermarket, it got the job done. S2808 ~8k Oci Pics.