01 Honda Valkyrie, Chevron Delo 5/40 Syn. 1905 mi

[RevRider]

Here is the report:

Aluminum - 3
Chromium - 1
Iron - 19
Copper - 11
Lead - 1
Tin - 4
Moly - 43
Nickel - 0
Manganese - 1
Silver - 0
Titanium - 0
Potassium - 1
Boron - 48
Sodium - 9
Calcium - 893
Magnesium - 1128
Phosphorus - 1058
Zinc - 1252
Barium - 0

SUS Vis @ 210F - 65.6
cST Viscosity @ 100C -11.77
Flashpoint - 395
Fuel% - Antifreeze% - 0
Water% - 0
Insolubles - 0.2
TBN 4.6

This is the 6th UOA I've done on the bike since 2001. It is a flat 6 cyl, with a redline of 6500, and generally never goes above 4000, as I am easy on it. The oil was in place just 2 weeks shy of 1 year.

The previous oils tested were Amsoil 10/40 in 2005, Mobil Truck & SUV 5/40 in 2006, Rotella 5/40 in 2006 & 2007, Mobil 1 10/40 MCycle oil in 2006, and now Delo.

Frankly, I am not impressed with this result, and fact, am very disappointed in it. The oil stayed in grade, it shifted decently, but when you compare it against the other oils I've test, it's in last place. In fairness to Chevron, they don't advertise this as an acceptable motorcycle oil.

The TBN started at 10.5 and in less than 2,000 miles, it was cut in 1/2.

This UOA was the worst of all, when projected to approximately 3,000 miles of use, the wear metals would be as follows, the best to the worst:

1. Rotella 5/40 syn - 22ppm
2. Rotella 5/40 syn - 25ppm
3. Mobil 1 1040 Motorcycle Oil - 28ppm
4. Mobil 1 5/40 Truck & SUV - 40ppm
5. Amsoil 10/40 Motorcycle Oil - 52ppm
6. Chevron Delo 5/40 syn - 61ppm

Delo has nearly 3 times the wear when projected.

I am the original owner on the bike, the style of riding has been the same since owning it.

I am not certain now that truck CJ oils provide the same protection as they did when I used Shell Rotella back in 2006 and 2007, which is causing me to re-think using them.

When I sent the sample, I re-filled with Chevron Delo 15/40, but at this point, I am going to dump it today and go back to Mobil 1 10/40 motorcycle oil.

I had high hopes with Delo, but they were crushed with this report.

Thoughts?

RevRider

 

[dernp]

I too was skeptical about using HDEO's in my bike. I only used Rotella T-6 and used the dino Rotella once. Never had an issue with either of them. I'm currently using AMsoil. One thing that someone told me and I'm not sure if this bears any weight is that the HDEO should be CI-4Plus. This deals with higher revving engines. AFAIK Rotella oils are the only JASO HDEO oils as well.

 

[RevRider]

Have you ever done a UOA on your bike using the Rotella?

 

[RevRider]

As of 6:30 pm the Chevron is out and M1 motorcycle oil is in.

I am thinking that it would be more fun riding the bike than thinking about what oil to put in. If the M1 is consistent with past performance, that will be it for me - no more oil research, no more trying this and trying that.

My neighbor has a Gold Wing, a little less than 2 years old and already has about 20,000 miles, he could care less about oil, takes his bike to the dealer at the recommended service intervals and rides.

My bike is 12 years old with 29,305. I know more about oil, but he knows more places to ride.

He is the wise one.

 

[sunruh]

Rev,

sorry, but you are wrong on this report.

this sample is ***NOT*** in grade!!!

it takes a susvis of 68.2863 to be 40wt. period. this sample is 30wt!

and a flash of just 395 seems low for supposedly low fuel%. that doesnt add up in my book.

some of the wear metals in this report are either odd or background scatter. who did the report?

um, how are hdeo's bad if SRT 5w40 posted the best results?
and not only once, but twice!

steve
if anything you should dump the M1 and put in SRT 5w40 according to your own test results.

 

[RevRider]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to the report and I appreciate your constructive input.

Blackstone did the analysis. On their report, they stated Values Should Be 65-78, so I thought it stayed in grade as the report was 65.6.

What do you mean by background scatter?

I've been running the Shell product, either the 5/40 or the 15/40, primarily the 5/40 since July 2008, but I have not tested since Sep 2007, based on previous Shell tests, I considered it a fine oil, no need to test every year, especially with the low miles I ride.

I don't know if the CJ Rotella is as good as the previous CI-4, which is what the good reports were on - I just don't know, so that's why I went back to M1 MCycle.

Is it possible this report from Blackstone is completely messed up??

RevRider

 

[sunruh]

ah the stoners. figures.
they give incorrect data in that field.
i called them out on it 1 time and they told me "it's a range we think the oil should be in with your motor". HUH? and yet it changes. send in 3 samples of 10w40 and get back 3 ranges.

background scatter is in all of the stoner reports.
its pretty easy to spot:
Chromium - 1
Lead - 1 - rarely but maybe
Tin - 4 - could be real
Manganese - 1
Silver - 0 - this is a big one
values in the 1-3 (maybe 4) range on odd elements are the indicators of scatter.

its where their spectrometer picks up one element as another.
chromium, manganese and silver are 3 of the biggest that show the scatter. i have a document from my manufacturer that says none of those elements are in my bike, yet the stoners say its in my oil. amazing that my motor can transmigrophy elements!!!
i just wish it would do gold on a large scale.

yes, the ci-4 oils were better than cj. it was like a light switch when that change occured.
yes, you dont have to do a uoa every year on such low miles.

no, that's a typical report from the stoners. you have to read it with a grain of salt. about the size that ranchers put out for the cattle to lick on.

here is what i'm fixated on your report:
Aluminum - 3
Iron - 19
Copper - 11
Lead - 1
Tin - 4

alum is very low.
but yet iron is kinda high as is copper.
lead and tin are usually babbit bearing material. which according to the fische you do have on the rods at the crank.

being in socal (and i know that irvine area well as i used to live in mission viejo and el toro) you can run just about any oil you want all year long. imho i would run SRT 15w40 until you were 75 and then maybe get a crotch rocket till you turn 85.
that motor should last that long.

the m1 10w40 once a year wont break the bank either. something about the delo 5w40 didnt agree as well with your bike as the others did.

steve

p.s. maybe you got a single streak on 1 bearing and thats why this report shows that way.

how did the filter look?

 

[RevRider]

Hi Steve,

I didn't cut open the filter, so I don't know the condition. I used a KN filter.

I was totally happy with the Shell 5/40 and a couple of times I used the 15/40 as well. I was hoping Delo would be good for my bike, but it wasn't.

I want to thank you for taking time to help me sort through the report, your time and knowledge is appreciated.

Revrider
Frank

 

[Clevy]

Rotella conventional 15w-40. I use it in all my shared sump bikes and this year it will be in my Harley. Cheap,easy to get,great oil,and did I mention cheap.

 

[dnewton3]

It is improper to directly compare/contrast these UOAs to each other under your circumstances.

You should only be looking at these, in reference to real statistical "normalized" results; you should be viewing these against true UAs after abnormalities are removed.

That being said, hopping from brand to brand isn't helping the chemistry pacakges settle down either. Wear is always higher at the front end of an OCI, and doing this with multiple products back-to-back is certainly aggrevating the issue.

You want consistent data? You need to feed in consistent inputs.

I would suggest trying a decent dino HDEO in 15w-40. I ran HDEO dino fluids in my 2000 Valkyrie Interstate for 6 years with no issues and great results. Try picking one fluid, then running a few OCIs for the chemistry to settle, and then run a few more OCIs with UOAs back to back. Then you can at least look at your results against UAs in a macro sense.

Don't blame the fluids when your methodology is flawed. I'm not saying that something isn't wrong, or that one fluid may/may not provide better protection than another. I'm saying your process is so muddled that you have no ability to praise/punish anything at this point.

I would also suggest you read my "normalcy" article; you need to better understand the difference between micro and marco analysis methodologies. Sticky at the top of this sub-forum.

 

[RevRider]

Hi DNewt,

Thanks for your response.

I am not certain what you mean by "normalized" results and "abnormalities...removed..."

On your thought, "wear is always higher at the front end of an OCI...", that's why I pro-rated them to 3,015 miles to compare what they would project to. Delo with 1905 miles already had wear of 39ppm as opposed to Rotella 5/40 at 22ppm at 3,015 miles. It seems to me that Delo would have even more wear as it approached the 3,000 mile mark.

I found it odd also the Delo's TBN was 4.6 while Rotella was 7.6, 7.9; M1 Motorcycle 9.7.

Perhaps UOA's are just a worthless expense for a person who only puts 2,000 to 3,000 miles a year on the bike, especially if you can't get an accurate read on the wear unless you keep using the same brand for several OCI's.

I am glad I kept the Delo in there for only 1,905 miles, as compared to the other brands, there was more wear with it than the other oils, even if my method of evaluating is flawed - the numbers are the numbers in wear, and it didn't do well as compared to the other brands.

I am no expert for sure, just my thoughts.

RevRider

 

[Mackelroy]

My 2 cents, if this was a BMW the metal counts look normal, but its a Honda. So I think switching away from the 5 w40 delo is not a bad idea, but I dont think you'll gain anything with Mobil 1 10w40 over the Delo 15w40, but you didnt run the delo long enough to find out, and the Mobil 1 is quite a bit more pricey in comparison.

Im into cheap oil nowadays, even the cheap stuff is right at $4 per quart. I found some 10w40 Mobil oil for $2.99 per quart at Target. Thats the chepest Ive seen anywhere for Brand oil.

 

[RevRider]

I dumped the Delo 15/40 because I was not willing to take a chance with another round of Delo with possible inferior results again. I did have good results with the M1 in the past.

Revrider

 

[cycleman]

You can't go wrong with a mc spec oil of the weight recommended by the manufacture. They are the ones that built it, so they know what it needs.

In general terms a syn product is going to perform better, all around, but its really just a matter how much you want to spend. With you only putting 2-3000 miles a year on the bike, that adds up to one oil change a year.

Oil threads are always interesting, but not very often conclusive.

 

[RevRider]

I think you've made a good point about what the OEM recommends relative to oil spec. They are the builders of the bike so they should know.

The M1 was $11 per quart - Delo was $5 quart. I would be saving $24 per year, a nite out at MacDonald.

RevRider

 

[Mackelroy]

Im not really sure why Honda respec'd all its bikes to 10w30, that previously were 10w40 or 20w50. But it probably has more to do with enviormental reasons. Really all they are looking for is a Usable life on their motors,even if wear is accelerated over a heavier weight.

My experience with running high rpm motors on 30 weight oils such as mc motors which turn 3 times the rpms of cars, is not sufficient to quelch cam lobe wear (long term), in cars its fine. Those results are with REAL PAO synthetic Oil 30 weights, Not the Fake Hydrocracked DINO synthetic.

10w40 or 15w40 is the best route unless looking for a real high milege oil, requiring an even heavier weight. The point is motorcycle shear and fuel dilute, after a thousand miles any multigrade will have likely lost a full grade, in a high performance motor.

 

[kballowe]

Have never run Delo. Delvac (conventional) yes.

I'm reading these posts and am a bit confused. The title says 5W-40 syn but in many other places the OP appears to say 15W-40. Or, it could just be my imagination.

 

[Mackelroy]

I think he started with 5w40, switched to 15w40 but pulled it out in only a few hundred miles cause he thought it would be no better.

 

[RevRider]

Yes, that is correct.

M1 motorcycle is in there now.

 

[FZ1]

You made a good call. The m1 motorcycle is a nice oil and you only change it 1x per year. Ride and Enjoy.