I've used ND30w for an occasional top-off in the past, but only for compressors and pumps now. I still use detergent HDEO 30w regularly in several vehicles and in my outdoor power equipment. Even my '88 Caddy still lists that one in the specs. I wouldn't use it in severely cold temps though.
Tell me about SAE-30, 40 and ND 30, 40 weights
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I was always curious about the additive packages between a SAE 30 and 10w30. Does SAE 30 have more anti-wear additives because its more robust of a grade? I understand that SAE 30 is more sheer resistant but will it have more or less additives/detergents than a conventional 10w30 SN?
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
ND oil has no place in an engine.
Some diesel drivers like it as a fuel additive, though, particularly truckers.
Straight grades are okay in warm weather.
Subaru actually allows for the use of a straight grade 30 or 40 meeting API SL in our Forester for severe conditons.
I ran a straight 30 in our '81 Vanagon summers.
No real need for a straight grade in most applications anymore, but some folks still use them.
As long as they're detergent oils, no harm is done.
+ 1
ND oil has no place in an engine.
Some diesel drivers like it as a fuel additive, though, particularly truckers.
Straight grades are okay in warm weather.
Subaru actually allows for the use of a straight grade 30 or 40 meeting API SL in our Forester for severe conditons.
I ran a straight 30 in our '81 Vanagon summers.
No real need for a straight grade in most applications anymore, but some folks still use them.
As long as they're detergent oils, no harm is done.
+ 1
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: shell_user
Didnt know where to post this. What are the uses for SAE 30 and ND 30 weights and others? I know years ago stuff used these oils, dont know what they may be used in nowadays, so any help and or info is appreciated.
I know two brothers that only use 30SAE pennzoil in their Bronco because it is a 'big" V8 truck and multigrade is for wimpy cars. I guess 16 years and over 250K of abuse I can not argue results with them, but it helps they live in Chula Vista. I hazard a guess the results would be different in Fairbanks Alaska.
If they were genuine old school guys, they would be running 5W or 10W straight-grade if they were in Fairbanks, AK.
Originally Posted By: shell_user
Didnt know where to post this. What are the uses for SAE 30 and ND 30 weights and others? I know years ago stuff used these oils, dont know what they may be used in nowadays, so any help and or info is appreciated.
I know two brothers that only use 30SAE pennzoil in their Bronco because it is a 'big" V8 truck and multigrade is for wimpy cars. I guess 16 years and over 250K of abuse I can not argue results with them, but it helps they live in Chula Vista. I hazard a guess the results would be different in Fairbanks Alaska.
If they were genuine old school guys, they would be running 5W or 10W straight-grade if they were in Fairbanks, AK.
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Originally Posted By: FFeng7
I was always curious about the additive packages between a SAE 30 and 10w30. Does SAE 30 have more anti-wear additives because its more robust of a grade?
Technically a straight 30 (or better yet, a straight 40) could have, since they would not be ILSAC approved, plus they could even use older API specs. The fact of the matter, though, is that I haven't seen any evidence of a "better" additive package, except in dual rated HDEOs. There are plenty of oils out there that use older specs or are outside of ILSAC certification that don't have much different in an additive package than an SN/GF-5 oil, particularly with respect to zinc.
I was always curious about the additive packages between a SAE 30 and 10w30. Does SAE 30 have more anti-wear additives because its more robust of a grade?
Technically a straight 30 (or better yet, a straight 40) could have, since they would not be ILSAC approved, plus they could even use older API specs. The fact of the matter, though, is that I haven't seen any evidence of a "better" additive package, except in dual rated HDEOs. There are plenty of oils out there that use older specs or are outside of ILSAC certification that don't have much different in an additive package than an SN/GF-5 oil, particularly with respect to zinc.
My 7.3idi specs either straight 30 weight, or 15w40 when it gets cooler.
I just run 15w40 dyno whatever is on sale and do regular oil changes.
I just run 15w40 dyno whatever is on sale and do regular oil changes.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
OPE often specs SAE 30 in a 4-stroke gas application, and older IDI diesels can use straight SAE 30 HDEO unless it gets too cold (with good batteries & glow plugs-sub 5F in my experience, as long as the engine can be warmed up for a couple minutes). Briggs & Stratton recommended ND 30 years ago, not sure today.
No they didn't, maybe 60 years ago...
specs on my 1980 B&S...
OPE often specs SAE 30 in a 4-stroke gas application, and older IDI diesels can use straight SAE 30 HDEO unless it gets too cold (with good batteries & glow plugs-sub 5F in my experience, as long as the engine can be warmed up for a couple minutes). Briggs & Stratton recommended ND 30 years ago, not sure today.
No they didn't, maybe 60 years ago...
specs on my 1980 B&S...
Thank god you didn't use 5W-20 in it, looks like even in the 1980's there were CAFE scams working for Briggs, it would have ruined the entire motor because the fluid bearing coupling splash mechanism ultranators design was never intended to deal with thinner fluid and would cause accelerated bearing wear. Japan is in on it, too, this is why real countries are smarter then the USA and stuck to crude oil to lubricate back then.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: FFeng7
I was always curious about the additive packages between a SAE 30 and 10w30. Does SAE 30 have more anti-wear additives because its more robust of a grade?
Technically a straight 30 (or better yet, a straight 40) could have, since they would not be ILSAC approved, plus they could even use older API specs. The fact of the matter, though, is that I haven't seen any evidence of a "better" additive package, except in dual rated HDEOs. There are plenty of oils out there that use older specs or are outside of ILSAC certification that don't have much different in an additive package than an SN/GF-5 oil, particularly with respect to zinc.
Thanks that's sort of what I was thinking because supertech 30hd is a SN rated oil. I know its not the energy conserving grade so it does not have to have the reduced levels of ZDDP additives but who knows for sure without a UOA.
Originally Posted By: FFeng7
I was always curious about the additive packages between a SAE 30 and 10w30. Does SAE 30 have more anti-wear additives because its more robust of a grade?
Technically a straight 30 (or better yet, a straight 40) could have, since they would not be ILSAC approved, plus they could even use older API specs. The fact of the matter, though, is that I haven't seen any evidence of a "better" additive package, except in dual rated HDEOs. There are plenty of oils out there that use older specs or are outside of ILSAC certification that don't have much different in an additive package than an SN/GF-5 oil, particularly with respect to zinc.
Thanks that's sort of what I was thinking because supertech 30hd is a SN rated oil. I know its not the energy conserving grade so it does not have to have the reduced levels of ZDDP additives but who knows for sure without a UOA.
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Thank god you didn't use 5W-20 in it, looks like even in the 1980's there were CAFE scams working for Briggs, it would have ruined the entire motor because the fluid bearing coupling splash mechanism ultranators design was never intended to deal with thinner fluid and would cause accelerated bearing wear. Japan is in on it, too, this is why real countries are smarter then the USA and stuck to crude oil to lubricate back then.
Back in 1980, CAFE surely had no play in B&S recommendation of 5W-20...
In cold weather(below 40*-45*F) I'm sure 5W-20 would be fine as the oil temp would likely never reach more than 150*-160*F... 5W-20 at those temps is thicker than a 40W at 200*F...
Thank god you didn't use 5W-20 in it, looks like even in the 1980's there were CAFE scams working for Briggs, it would have ruined the entire motor because the fluid bearing coupling splash mechanism ultranators design was never intended to deal with thinner fluid and would cause accelerated bearing wear. Japan is in on it, too, this is why real countries are smarter then the USA and stuck to crude oil to lubricate back then.
Back in 1980, CAFE surely had no play in B&S recommendation of 5W-20...
In cold weather(below 40*-45*F) I'm sure 5W-20 would be fine as the oil temp would likely never reach more than 150*-160*F... 5W-20 at those temps is thicker than a 40W at 200*F...
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Tough Little Motor that Chevy 2.8V6,.reminds me of Briggs&Stratton,.same kind of power and tough as Nails. They Love Straight 30 oils, I sure of it.
Actually, the 2.8L (especially the carbed unit that Jeep used) is known as one of the biggest turds GM ever made. The Jeep 2.5L four cylinder had more power and Jeep couldn't install the 4.0L in the Cherokee fast enough.
Regarding SAE30, I still use some of the Delo in my stash from the '05/'06 $1/gallon sale. It's a nice 3 season oil.
Tough Little Motor that Chevy 2.8V6,.reminds me of Briggs&Stratton,.same kind of power and tough as Nails. They Love Straight 30 oils, I sure of it.
Actually, the 2.8L (especially the carbed unit that Jeep used) is known as one of the biggest turds GM ever made. The Jeep 2.5L four cylinder had more power and Jeep couldn't install the 4.0L in the Cherokee fast enough.
Regarding SAE30, I still use some of the Delo in my stash from the '05/'06 $1/gallon sale. It's a nice 3 season oil.
Originally Posted By: FFeng7
I know its not the energy conserving grade so it does not have to have the reduced levels of ZDDP additives but who knows for sure without a UOA.
That's exactly it. We've seen all kinds of grades which really have no limitations on ZDDP and the like, yet still have severely reduced phosphorous numbers. Without numbers on a spec sheet or an analysis, we have no idea. Heck, some formulations for specific types of engines have substantially less ZDDP than the ILSAC limitations, even though they're not ILSAC rated.
I know its not the energy conserving grade so it does not have to have the reduced levels of ZDDP additives but who knows for sure without a UOA.
That's exactly it. We've seen all kinds of grades which really have no limitations on ZDDP and the like, yet still have severely reduced phosphorous numbers. Without numbers on a spec sheet or an analysis, we have no idea. Heck, some formulations for specific types of engines have substantially less ZDDP than the ILSAC limitations, even though they're not ILSAC rated.
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Thank god you didn't use 5W-20 in it, looks like even in the 1980's there were CAFE scams working for Briggs, it would have ruined the entire motor because the fluid bearing coupling splash mechanism ultranators design was never intended to deal with thinner fluid and would cause accelerated bearing wear. Japan is in on it, too, this is why real countries are smarter then the USA and stuck to crude oil to lubricate back then.
Back in 1980, CAFE surely had no play in B&S recommendation of 5W-20...
In cold weather(below 40*-45*F) I'm sure 5W-20 would be fine as the oil temp would likely never reach more than 150*-160*F... 5W-20 at those temps is thicker than a 40W at 200*F...
Quote:
fluid bearing coupling splash mechanism ultranators
Sarcasm was intended on my last post
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Thank god you didn't use 5W-20 in it, looks like even in the 1980's there were CAFE scams working for Briggs, it would have ruined the entire motor because the fluid bearing coupling splash mechanism ultranators design was never intended to deal with thinner fluid and would cause accelerated bearing wear. Japan is in on it, too, this is why real countries are smarter then the USA and stuck to crude oil to lubricate back then.
Back in 1980, CAFE surely had no play in B&S recommendation of 5W-20...
In cold weather(below 40*-45*F) I'm sure 5W-20 would be fine as the oil temp would likely never reach more than 150*-160*F... 5W-20 at those temps is thicker than a 40W at 200*F...
Quote:
fluid bearing coupling splash mechanism ultranators
Sarcasm was intended on my last post
I heard the ultranators have been redesigned with smaller "tolerances" to run thin oil.
Yes, I Know what everyone thinks of the GM 2.8V6. I currently have 7 Cherokees, two 84z, one with the AMC 2.5 at and the other with the GM2.8V6 at 255,338 miles, a 297,821 mile 87 with a 1st year 4.0(and a Factory Dana 44 rear), a 96 with 250,586 miles on her 4.0 that is as powerful and smooth as the day she left the plant, a 2 wheel drive 99 whose 4.0 developed a tick at 134,??? miles back in 2007 the night I bought her that turned out to be #2 wrist pin egging out #2 piston(Now All Good and ReBUILT) a 2000 with 213,??? miles that had a severley cracked 0331 head that just destroyed the cam bearings, but that ran otherwise fine(until tore her down last summer, currently being ReBUILT) and my Beloved 2001 SilverStone Metallic Cherokee Sport with 64,820 miles currently that drives like New. I am a Fan of the UnderDog, see, thats why I stickup for my 84 with her Tough, lil GM2.8V6. I drive Her daily, and She keeps coming back for more. Its a "Interest in Science" as Tom says on CarTalk, about doing the same thing, not changing the oil or oil filter in his 86 Dodge Colt Vista. See what it can take.
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SAE30 and SAE40 would often carry the CF-2 rating, which limited ZDDP. That was because the Detroit Diesel 2 stroke needed it that way.
That would be why you don't get as much ZDDP as you might have expected.
That would be why you don't get as much ZDDP as you might have expected.
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