ALL DOG OWNERS ~ PET FOOD INFO ~ MUST READ!

[Bandito440]

Dave,

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I am not making assumptions about the amount of cheap kibble that you feed to your dogs, although if you're not feeding much, that would seem all the more reason to buy something decent. That's not the point of this discussion. It's the quality of food, or lack thereof.

Like most consumers, I get my information about food (dog or otherwise) by reading the list of ingredients and guaranteed analysis. That's raw information from which I make an informed decision. If you choose not to, that's certainly your right. However, overlooking raw data and insisting that you know better for the sake of pride is not progress.

Years ago, I knew that Pennzoil was going to sludge my engine with wax. After looking at data, I swallowed my pride and realized that what my grandfather told me is no longer relevant.

My reference to the generic gas station oil was concerning the non-branded junk like Maxiguard, which is bad for vehicles. I know this without being a tribologist. That was my point - that I can make an informed decision about a consumer product without being an expert in the field.

Anyhow, this thread has gone downhill. It has been a good discussion for the most part, and I enjoyed it. I invite anyone with further interest to PM me.

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: dave1251

On who's account are you receiving this information? I was not aware your profession is observing the process of dog food, animal nutritionist, tribologist, and formulator. You are a well rounded individual!


It's totally obvious when you research the origin of ingredients on AAFCO that they are not very kosher. "Meat and bone meal" is basically whatever is left of the animal that isn't fit for normal consumption - take a cow for instance - we're talking hooves, ground bones, and hyde. The same thing with any by-product. "Poultry By-Product Meal" contains talons, feathers, and beaks. There is no actual meat in there. So when you buy a product like "Ol Roy" or "Speical Kitty" you are getting corn fillers that are hard to digest, as well as bones, talons, feathers, beaks, skulls, marrow, etc etc. The proof in the pudding is always in the first five ingredients. Will your dog live to be 10? Perhaps. But he will not be happy or healthy or enriched.
;
I think what y'all are really trying to aregue is that you don't want to pay extra for "snobbish food" and that is fine. It is a free country and you can buy what you want for your pets or your kids. Truth of the matter is you can buy decent "middle of the road" food for not too much more. It's like deciding to buy Mobil Super 5k instead of the house brand. As I said "chicken soup for the dog lovers' soul" or "canidae" is not that expensive - probably $40 for a 40lb bag. At least try it to see if it's worth it. I found the truth out about this garbage that is allowed in pet foods and to be honest it makes me sick. But you have a choice. As a man in the pet shop said to me, regarding what pet food I should buy, "how much do you love your pet?" I asked him what he meant. "How much do you care for your pet? When you answer that I'll tell you what you are looking for."


Hey you are such a well rounded individual and know so much on a variety subjects you even know what I food I prepare for my family you should start your own consulting firm you can make a lot of money up there.


I'm sorry dave. You're getting awfully defensive. There's no reason to get offended, I am not an enemy of yours. You have a choice to do what you want with your money. If you choose to buy Dog Chow that is completely your decision. Ignorance is bliss but can end up in regret. As for me and my house we have done the research and will feed the best we can on what we can afford.

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
The Tractor Supply house brand 4Health is made by Diamond and is pretty good quality, and I think about $37 for the big bag. It's good middle of the road food, is lacking a lot of the fillers and trash that Wal-Mart food has, and unless you're feeding a herd, it doesn't cost much more than the generic corn chunks.


I totally forgot about 4Health! Yes, they are a fantastic brand for the money. Go with this....totally.

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: dave1251

The best part of this conversation is that you are jumping to conclusions without half of the available information. Do you know how much kibble my dog gets in a month? How are you making the that your brand of dog food is somehow superior? By reading a label or a company's website? A good salesman will make any product look superior and feed off of a consumers fear that the products being used is somehow inferior. Also do you know where a "gas station" oil is blended at? There is only a few companies in North America you can buy base stocks and additive packages from if you are using a API certified oil of course.


I think you're missing the point. This has nothing to do with marketing. If that were so, Purina, Iams, and Science Diet would be at the top of the food quality pyramid. All hail Nestle! The information is out there and widely available. If you do 1 google search and surf a few links you can find exactly what we mean. I'm not employed by any pet food company, and I'm not loyal to one specific brand. I do believe however that there are necessary evils that must be pointed out. Think of the grocery store pet food as the "City Star Oil" of the pet food world. Should not be allowed on shelves but meets certain nutrient quotas whether healthy or not. If I had a rubber shoe and the shoe had the chemical composition in guaranteed analysis of the nutrients required for a pet to survive (not thrive mind you, just survive) I could cook the boot and market it as pet food. That's the problem the industry is facing right now. The only way you can fight feeding your pet rancid objects is to do your research (not that hard), spend a couple extra dollars and feed quality food. Also, if any pet food has "salt" in it, the salt is a preservative to cover up rotting animal digest. Just a little known fact.

 

[coolbird101]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: dave1251

On who's account are you receiving this information? I was not aware your profession is observing the process of dog food, animal nutritionist, tribologist, and formulator. You are a well rounded individual!


It's totally obvious when you research the origin of ingredients on AAFCO that they are not very kosher. "Meat and bone meal" is basically whatever is left of the animal that isn't fit for normal consumption - take a cow for instance - we're talking hooves, ground bones, and hyde. The same thing with any by-product. "Poultry By-Product Meal" contains talons, feathers, and beaks. There is no actual meat in there. So when you buy a product like "Ol Roy" or "Speical Kitty" you are getting corn fillers that are hard to digest, as well as bones, talons, feathers, beaks, skulls, marrow, etc etc. The proof in the pudding is always in the first five ingredients. Will your dog live to be 10? Perhaps. But he will not be happy or healthy or enriched.

I think what y'all are really trying to aregue is that you don't want to pay extra for "snobbish food" and that is fine. It is a free country and you can buy what you want for your pets or your kids. Truth of the matter is you can buy decent "middle of the road" food for not too much more. It's like deciding to buy Mobil Super 5k instead of the house brand. As I said "chicken soup for the dog lovers' soul" or "canidae" is not that expensive - probably $40 for a 40lb bag. At least try it to see if it's worth it. I found the truth out about this garbage that is allowed in pet foods and to be honest it makes me sick. But you have a choice. As a man in the pet shop said to me, regarding what pet food I should buy, "how much do you love your pet?" I asked him what he meant. "How much do you care for your pet? When you answer that I'll tell you what you are looking for."


Thanks for this response. I'm glad to see some other like-minded people out there.

I don't need to be a nutritionist to know that my family shouldn't eat Big Macs for every meal even if they want it, and I don't need to be a tribologist to know that the generic gas station motor oil is bad for my vehicle.

I'm no expert on any of the topics discussed here, but reading the label on Ol Roy and using the same good sense that leads me to the above conclusions, I came to the realization that feeding my pets corn fines and soy fillers mixed with some meat meal from unknown species and parts is not healthy.

The Tractor Supply house brand 4Health is made by Diamond and is pretty good quality, and I think about $37 for the big bag. It's good middle of the road food, is lacking a lot of the fillers and trash that Wal-Mart food has, and unless you're feeding a herd, it doesn't cost much more than the generic corn chunks.


The best part of this conversation is that you are jumping to conclusions without half of the available information. Do you know how much kibble my dog gets in a month? How are you making the that your brand of dog food is somehow superior? By reading a label or a company's website? A good salesman will make any product look superior and feed off of a consumers fear that the products being used is somehow inferior. Also do you know where a "gas station" oil is blended at? There is only a few companies in North America you can buy base stocks and additive packages from if you are using a API certified oil of course.
The very first post has a link, this link will show you an independent study done on different pet foods, thats how he knows his dog is getting high quality food, no salesman involved, just a nice bit of data for us to use or simply dismiss as appears you have done. Some people treat there pets as family, some treat them like a tool "to work for them", everybody looks at pets differently. I beleive the op's intention was to give us a headsup on some nice info. he found and thank you to the op for that. We all know your a data guy, so where is your data? Is there something we can reference that may dismiss anything thats been said on here? Maybe showing grains,fillers, beaks and feet being superior to chicken, lamb and salmon.

 

[yonyon]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I can't understand the aversion to grains in dog food in this web site. I once dated a veterinarian who pointed out that dogs require more grain in their diet than humans. Dog foods are marketed as "beef flavored" or "meaty flavored" to appease humans, since after all, it is humans that buy the food and not dogs. The food is otherwise made up of grain for the dog's health.

I think your friend was mistaken. A dog digestive system is very similar to a wolf digestive system, which of course is where dogs come from. Wolves do not eat grains. Their diet is almost exclusively meat, although they do sometimes enjoy a vegetable, and if they get really hungry they will sometimes eat nuts or berries. Dogs and wolves both eat grass sometimes, but that's mostly for the fiber, and they stick to the top of the grass blades which is the most nutritious and hydrated, but it's not much for them. Their systems don't deal well with grains, they don't process them like we humans do. Dogs are not omnivores, they are carnivores. Corn and wheat would never be found in a wolf or feral dog diet, unless the animal were starving to death, even then many probably would not eat it.

Corn is especially bad for a dog, it's broken down into several chemicals in a dog's body that block serotonin. On top of that, the corn does not having any l-tryptophan, which is what is used to make serotonin in we mammals. Want to deplete your brain of serotonin? Eat only corn based products for a few weeks. This is why it's bad for your dog, he or she eats the same stuff day after day. If it's mostly corn, this can have all kinds of adverse behavioral effects on your pup. Wheat is a significant allergen to many dogs, sometimes it manifests in ways that are not obvious to the owner. Dogs can't say "Hey, my joins feel inflamed ever since you started me on that new food. And I have this strange full feeling all the time. You better check my intestines for inflammation."


I am afraid you are very mistaken and you sound very much like a dog food salesman. Dogs have evolved from Wolves over the last 14,000 years and living with us and getting our scraps has changed their digestive system and has changed them. One of my Petey's favorite meals is oatmeal, blueberries, natural peanut nutter, with a hard boiled egg.

Another thing there is only two kibbles that my Pit-mix will eat and will rather go hungry than eat other brands. That is ol roy and puppy chow.


Purina puppy chow tastes pretty good to me too. If it came in a bag labeled as trail mix with a few raisins or dried cranberries I'd eat it. Of course, that doesn't make it any healthier.

 

[andrewg]

dave1251, Geesh....are you wound a bit tight or what? You have an almost arrogant tone my friend....especially when you say things like..."height of hubris" in regard to my opinion. You also seem to have an innate ability to place words in my mouth. As an example, where did I call dogs "wolves"? And your mocking nature of my comment about healthy food being natural as some sort of joke....? That's fine, but you really seem to have a desire to be inflammatory rather than to partake in positive discourse. No matter really. But to clarify.....natural ingredients is a term I am using to describe foods found in a more natural, unprocessed state such as wild game and such. I am merely saying that dogs, as well as us humans, can derive great benefit from such ingredients. If you don't agree....that's fine. I could not care any less......but I do find the hostility rather sad but typical of how folks relate to one another these days.

 

[CourierDriver]

Is dog food a group 2 or group 3.

 

[yonyon]

Dog food oil would have to be group 5 like whale oil or baby oil not 1 or 2.

 

[kkreit01]

We've been using Costco Kirkland food since our dog was a puppy. He's healthy, energetic, and fine at 4+ now.