Advantages of Synthetic Base Oils

[Hyde244]

Originally Posted By: tig1
As to the point of 10K OCIs. 10K has performed very well for me in all kinds of engines for the last 35 years. Even carbureted engine of the 70s, to 2.0 diesel engines of the 80s, to the modern fuel inj. engines we have today. Even if we only do 5K OCIs(a waste in my view)there is still engine benifits to a quality synthetic. Especially in extreme cold or hot temps.


+1

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: tig1
Even if we only do 5K OCIs(a waste in my view)there is still engine benifits to a quality synthetic. Especially in extreme cold or hot temps.


Not true.



I find it difficult to say "not true" when there are mountains of evidence, data sheets, and reports proving synthetic operates better at start-up in cold and hot.



The proof is in the pudding.

 

[Bill in Utah]

How many of the vehicles out there are running syn? How many over the decades are running syn?

What is the average OCI? How do people get hundreds of thousands of miles on engines with no problems not using syn?

You can post all the "proof in the pudding" but the REAL PROOF is out there.

Maybe all the "proof" is marketing trying to make people FEEL that they NEED syn when in its really want.

If people want to run syn fine but please don't ignore that more vehicles go just fine with normal oils. And some of those would not make it any further using syn.

Bill

PS: Is Mobil serious with that video?

Love the music and drama! Oh and they used the wrong oil in the VW... Tisk Tisk

 

[Hyde244]

Of course synthetic oil is not the magic bullet. No oil is.

You can easily take an engine hundreds of thousands of miles on dino oil. You can easily take an engine hundreds of thousands of miles on synthetic.

My 1999 Ford Taurus made it to 275,000 using nothing by Supertech HM and PYB.

There is no doubt that with regular service - you will do just fine with either oil.

However, Synthetic oil has a better flow rate than dino oil. This is why it is recommended for better start-ups, and ability to flow in cold temperatures. That is where synthetic oil has the advantage.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Hyde244
Of course synthetic oil is not the magic bullet. No oil is.

You can easily take an engine hundreds of thousands of miles on dino oil. You can easily take an engine hundreds of thousands of miles on synthetic.

My 1999 Ford Taurus made it to 275,000 using nothing by Supertech HM and PYB.

There is no doubt that with regular service - you will do just fine with either oil.

However, Synthetic oil has a better flow rate than dino oil. This is why it is recommended for better start-ups, and ability to flow in cold temperatures. That is where synthetic oil has the advantage.


First of all good job on the Taurus! MY 1999 went 61,000 miles on its first set of Head Gaskets. Then 108,000 it needed them changed again....

Its in the junkyard at a little under 160,000 miles with a blown transmission...

I see plenty of cold weather. Before 1996 all I used was 10w-30 REAL conventional oils in many a vehicle and yet they made it to 200k, 300k and one 1986 to 394,000 miles before it got its ride to the junkyard...

I think we would all agree that today's oils are MUCH better and with NO question that a 5w-20/30 does much better than a 10w-30 of yesterday. But still those vehicles did just fine.

Now I'm not telling people to go out and run 10w-30 but I just crack up with all the posting that syn protects so much better when its 40 degrees outside. And you will get "benefits" with it even at 5k OCIs in an engine that does NOT REQUIRE syn.

And there are very few places where its -40 over night for the whole period of time. Those places also plug in most of the time.

Just my points.

Take care, Bill

PS: I am jealous of your 1999 and its miles. My wife loved ours...

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Others have pointed out that sometimes popping the valve cover is useful. Obviously, that's application dependent. On my old Audi, the valve cover gasket job was easier than an air filter. In other vehicles, it's a major chore.

Yeah that sounds like too much work. I'll just work an extra 10 minutes at my job, earn the extra $8 that running Mobil 1 costs me, and avoid the danger of a conventional sludging the engine.

BTW I have been online since 1987. I am new to the forum, but I'm not a newbie to forums in general. Heck google still has some of my earliest posts dating back to 1991.

 

[Hyde244]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I think we would all agree that today's oils are MUCH better and with NO question that a 5w-20/30 does much better than a 10w-30 of yesterday. But still those vehicles did just fine.

Now I'm not telling people to go out and run 10w-30 but I just crack up with all the posting that syn protects so much better when its 40 degrees outside. And you will get "benefits" with it even at 5k OCIs in an engine that does NOT REQUIRE syn.

And there are very few places where its -40 over night for the whole period of time. Those places also plug in most of the time.

Just my points.

Take care, Bill

PS: I am jealous of your 1999 and its miles. My wife loved ours...
Haha, it was a good car, starter for both my sister and I. Ultimately the rust did it in, but it put up with a lot of abuse.

You are absolutely right; SN oils show a marked improvement across the board. I'd venture a guess that the creation of the API is one of the most significant moves done in the auto industry, as it guarantees a standard quality across oils. And that quality is good!

And there is no doubt that running a synthetic for only 5k OCI is a poor decision. Here in Ohio, the difference in price between a jug of Syn Blend and Synthetic is $7 - use the syn blend (or conventional), save the money, and put it towards a pretty filter (preferably not orange

).

It is in this regards that synthetic, for the average driver, is probably best chosen for extended OCIs. Unless you are commuting from the Northwest Territory, admittedly the cold temp startup specs can be thrown out the window.

I personally prefer to run Motorcraft every 5k, as it lines up with my tire rotations. It is a quality syn blend (best of both worlds, right?) for $18 a jug, and the oil that Ford will ultimately recommend.

Honestly, the only reason I would ever consider running a full synthetic, for my driving style, is the ability to go to 0w20 which is seemingly not achievable with regular dino and syn blend (though doesn't Toyota have a syn blend 0w20?). I will be trying out Castrol Ti 0w20 next oil change, but will most likely follow that with MC 5w20 afterwards. (especially when an oil change/tire rotation at the local Ford dealership is only $22. Not bad for having a mechanic also look over your car.)

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Hyde244
However, Synthetic oil has a better flow rate than dino oil. This is why it is recommended for better start-ups, and ability to flow in cold temperatures. That is where synthetic oil has the advantage.

To make the statement really true and gain the real benefits in cold weather, you have to be talking about grades that are generally only available in synthetics. I'm talking about a 0w-30 versus a 5w-30 or 10w-30, or a 0w-20 versus a 5w-20, or a 0w-40 or 5w-40 versus a 15w-40. That's where you'll see your cold start benefits.

Originally Posted By: blackman777
Yeah that sounds like too much work.

On most vehicles, that's absolutely true. Nonetheless, the dangers of sludging on conventional are marginal at best, assuming one is using an approved lube in the first place and following proper OCIs.

Up here, the $8 more for synthetic simply doesn't fly. The cheapest conventional I've ever seen on rollback recently was $6 a gallon for SuperTech and around $9 to $10 for 5 quarts of VWB and GTX. The cheapest synthetic I've ever seen was a hair under $20 for Napa synthetic, Valvoline synthetic, and PP in five quarts. Regular priced conventional is $25 per jug, and regular synthetic is $45 to $55 per jug, depending upon which level (i.e. M1 vs M1 EP or regular Syntec vs Syntec with Titanium or whatever they call it these days). So, synthetic is double the price, no matter how you slice it, and the difference is even worse if you're comparing single quarts, rollback or regular prices.

 

[Hyde244]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Hyde244
However, Synthetic oil has a better flow rate than dino oil. This is why it is recommended for better start-ups, and ability to flow in cold temperatures. That is where synthetic oil has the advantage.

To make the statement really true and gain the real benefits in cold weather, you have to be talking about grades that are generally only available in synthetics. I'm talking about a 0w-30 versus a 5w-30 or 10w-30, or a 0w-20 versus a 5w-20, or a 0w-40 or 5w-40 versus a 15w-40. That's where you'll see your cold start benefits.
Very true, I got thinking about the ability of 0w weights of synthetic oils that we do not find in dino, and was sure to add that to my last post.

I would imagine moving forward, especially with GF-6 coming up in two years, we will see a concerted push by auto manufacturers to use more 0w and 5w20 to meet CAFE requirements and specs of small, turbo-charged engines. There will be a 0w16 on the shelf within three years - talk about viscosity!

 

[Danno]

I run synthetic in all my 5 cars, 3 of them driven by 3 sons. 2 weeks ago it was -30F to -35F all week. This week, about -18F all week overnight temps. 100% severe service with short city based trips. Oil changes are done well before 10,000 miles or one year intervals. The few extra $ per oil change is well worth the peace of mind that just in case they did not plug in or if the GFI circuit tripped overnight, that I am doing everything I can with in reason to make sure that car starts and the engine lives a reasonably long life.

 

[blackman777]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Up here, the $8 more for synthetic simply doesn't fly. The cheapest conventional I've ever seen on rollback..... around $9 to $10 for 5 quarts of VWB and GTX. The cheapest synthetic I've ever seen was a hair under $20 for Napa synthetic, Valvoline synthetic, and PP in five quarts.

I'm ignoring the Walmart oil and just focusing on the good name-brand oils. That would be about $2/quart difference which would be $8 total for one of my cars (and $6 for the other). So that's how I came-up with my conclusion "it's only 8 more to run synth". That's trivial. I probably lose more money than that in 6 months.