Advantages of Synthetic Base Oils

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Hyde244
Synthetic is best used under extreme service conditions (e.g. towing), or long OCIs of 10k miles or more. Locations of extreme heat (Arizona) and extreme cold (Northwest Territory, Canada) may also see benefits from synthetic over dino.

Anything short of that - dino will perform just fine.

End thread.


Agree. You left out turbo and high performance engines though.
cheers3.gif
 
Over my many years here at BITOG, I have seen some who imply that engine seals do better on dino oil compared to synthetic.

I have read recommendations that once a seal problem is resolved, it is best to stick with dino oil.

My question is different than "synthetic oil caused my engine to leak". I am asking if, over the long haul (200K +)seals stay happier with dino vs. synthetic?

Doug? Anyone with high mileage synthetic only use have input?

Or, is this another myth. Thank you.
 
Hi,
doitmyself - Yes, synthetic lubricants do extend drive line seal life.

Reasearch done in the 1990s (Eaton) showed an amazing increase in seal (and bearing) life. In my own practical experience the Eaton results were well and truely confirmed

The latest crop of conforming mineral lubricants are however catching up using a much better additive as technologies allow. I always use synthetic drive line lubricants

And changing drive line components to a synthetic from a mineral can indeed cause leaks!

Engine cleanliness from new is the key to minimising leaks there. Changing from an earlier specification lubricant to a later one may cause seepage issues as many have stated. If the seepage is from gaskets then you've got to fix them!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: gregoron
"I think natural/dino oils are junk past 3000 miles (they breakdown and coat the engine with sludge), so I don't consider the extra money on synthoil a waste or 'no good"\'."

I disagree with this provocative statement. I have yet to see sludge in my engine with 4 - 5k OCI on good quality dino.

The conventional oil could be sludging the engine & never appear on a UOA. And also you've taken my sentence out of context. I was defending myself from the synthoil-haters who think I am "wasting my money" by using Mobil 1 instead of Mobil 5000.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: gregoron
"I think natural/dino oils are junk past 3000 miles (they breakdown and coat the engine with sludge), so I don't consider the extra money on synthoil a waste or 'no good"\'."

I disagree with this provocative statement. I have yet to see sludge in my engine with 4 - 5k OCI on good quality dino.

The conventional oil culd be sludging the engine & never appear on a UOA.


Maybe he's had a valve cover off? He didn't say he was looking for sludge with a UOA, he said he didn't see sludge in his engine. I took his statement as literal, as in, with his eyes he didn't see it.
 
No maybe 10k in a stop and go situation would be dumb in a rual h'way situation it is a piece of cake!!Gotta know how and why>In a stop and go 5k might make syn a waste.
cool.gif

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Why the gas numbers being put in?


You know the reason, Bill.
wink.gif
An extra $10 for synthetic over conventional isn't a big deal compared to $1000 a year in gas, or a $40000 car, right?

It's rationalization. I have no problem with synthetics, have used them, and will use them again. However, they're not going to make my vehicle last forever. They're not going to double my horsepower. They won't cut my gas bills in half. There are advantages, and a good ROI is possible, but difficult.

If I were as brave or as smart as tig1, I'd be doing exactly what he's doing - 10,000 miles on M1 as per their warranty coverage versus 3,750 miles on PYB per Infiniti's warranty. And I would have adequate ROI, and that's without any UOAs.
 
Also syn are now showing up at every place you shop. Fram was selling a Syn so are we talking about a quality dino like PYB with 200+moly or a Peak syn with nothing add pack?
 
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Why the gas numbers being put in?
You know the reason, Bill.
wink.gif
An extra $10 for synthetic over conventional isn't a big deal compared to $1000 a year in gas, right?

(shrug). Right! Why should I get in a tizzy spending $8 extra for Mobil 1 versus Mobil 5000, when I'm already burning almost $1000 out of the fuel tank? It seems silly for just one percent savings. The way that *I* save costs is by not blowing it on ~80 a month cable or ~50 a month cellphone.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
(I know I said was done but to answer such dumb statements I can not pass up)
smirk.gif
Amazing how you have to justify wasting $$ that will do NO good in the end run. So instead of sticking on point you have to bring in gas and cable bills/cell phones... Good job!
06.gif

Please don't call me dumb and hitting me over the head.

If I want to use Mobil 1 instead of Mobil 5000 conventional, that is MY choice, and I don't have to justify it to you or President George "duh" Bush or the IRS or Nancy Pelosi or anybody else. It is MY money coming from MY wallet and MY paycheck. The extra 6 to 8 dollars every 3-4 months is literally nothing for me
 
Last edited:
Please settle down, as we dont want this thread to get locked because someone brought politics into the talk.

thank you

adam
 
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Why the gas numbers being put in?
You know the reason, Bill.
wink.gif
An extra $10 for synthetic over conventional isn't a big deal compared to $1000 a year in gas, right?

(shrug). Right! Why should I get in a tizzy spending $8 extra for Mobil 1 versus Mobil 5000, when I'm already burning almost $1000 out of the fuel tank? It seems silly for just one percent savings. The way that *I* save costs is by not blowing it on ~80 a month cable or ~50 a month cellphone.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
(I know I said was done but to answer such dumb statements I can not pass up)
smirk.gif
Amazing how you have to justify wasting $$ that will do NO good in the end run. So instead of sticking on point you have to bring in gas and cable bills/cell phones... Good job!
06.gif

Please don't call me dumb and hitting me over the head.

If I want to use Mobil 1 instead of Mobil 5000 conventional, that is MY choice, and I don't have to justify it to you or President George "duh" Bush or the IRS or Nancy Pelosi or anybody else. It is MY money coming from MY wallet and MY paycheck. The extra 6 to 8 dollars every 3-4 months is literally nothing for me

Then why do you keep trying to justify it to everyone in this thread? By the way I run 5k intervals on conventional, had the engine apart to replace timing components. No sludge. Actually I was surprised just how clean it was. Like I previously said in this thread I will use what the manufacturer specifies for my vehicle. If my truck required synthetic I would have no problem using it and I have no problem with you using it. Oh and I do a decent amount of towing and hauling too on my 5k mile intervals.
 
Yeah sorry.
I just get a bit annoyed when people start calling me "dumb" over a measly 8 dollars extra on synthoil. I happen to like Mobil 1, and don't see any reason to downgrade to Mobil conventional but apparently people think I'm "dumb" if I don't switch to Mobil 5000.
I apologize for losing my cool
 
Last edited:
My honest two cents; I have some M1 5W20 mixed with M1 0W40 in my Civic, and I have used a ton of Mobil 1 in the past, no issues whatsoever. I do 10k intervals w/Mobil 1
 
Originally Posted By: shell_user
I guess my 350 engine in my 91' chevy truck is full of sludge using QS for like 40k in it eh?


And the taxis with 6,000 mile OCIs for hundreds of thousands of miles on QS conventional were a real mess, too.
wink.gif


@blackman777: I'm certainly not belittling your choice. You are free to do with your money as you see fit, and I'd rather see you "waste" M1 on a short OCI than use conventional and never, ever change it. The point is, however, that a synthetic is not needed for conservative OCIs on a normal application. If it specs syn, sure. Heck, if you like syn, sure, that's fine, too. But, using M1 over Mobil conventional over equivalent, normal OCIs isn't going to change a 200,000 mile engine lifespan into a 400,000 mile engine lifespan. It won't make a vehicle that can hardly start when plugged in in the winter to one that's going to start unaided in -40, either.

The desire to use synthetic does not require the denigration of conventionals or a statement that the $8 (or whatever) premium for synthetic is insignificant in comparison to the total cost of ownership. Synthetic lubricants are fantastic and I don't think anyone is claiming they aren't. Necessary and fantastic are not synonyms, though.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm certainly not belittling your choice. You are free to do with your money as you see fit, and I'd rather see you "waste" M1 on a short OCI than use conventional and never, ever change it. The point is, however, that a synthetic is not needed for conservative OCIs on a normal application. If it specs syn, sure. Heck, if you like syn, sure, that's fine, too.

Okay let's suppose I switched from my current 10,000 miles on Mobil 1 to 10,000 miles on Mobil 5000 conventional. And it starts sludging the internals. How would I spot that on a UOA so I know "this isn't working" and can shorten intervals? (Or go back to M1.)
 
Good question. While Dave Newton has shown that 10,000 miles and more is certainly possible on conventional under the right circumstances, I (and likely Dave, too) wouldn't recommend just going from 10,000 on M1 to 10,000 on Mobil conventional. Heck, some cars chew through synthetic on shorter intervals than that, let alone conventional, and some cars, as you and I are both aware, are speced for synthetic only.

What I'd watch in a Blackstone UOA would be TBN and insolubles, along with fuel dilution. If those aren't acceptable, I'd be concerned about varnish, sludge, or harder deposits. Some other UOAs are more comprehensive and include TAN, oxidation, nitration, and so forth. There are others here who are far more expert at those numbers than I am.

Others have pointed out that sometimes popping the valve cover is useful. Obviously, that's application dependent. On my old Audi, the valve cover gasket job was easier than an air filter. In other vehicles, it's a major chore.

Incidentally, with respect to conventional in my Audi, there were some problems with the factory OCI, at least in my view. It was 12,500 km on severe service, requiring something like API SJ or better, with no synthetic requirement. The previous owner likely followed that religiously, and had almost all city miles. There was varnish and some coking, but no sludge. I posted pics here a long time ago. With the relatively small sump (4.5 L versus current, larger Audi sumps) and no synthetic requirement with such a long OCI, things weren't as clean as they could have been. I've certainly seen much better results with conventional in other applications. There's something to be said for avoiding short trips.

Honestly, 10,000 miles on M1 is a reasonable choice. M1 has a warranty for such mileage, and I wouldn't consider such usage a waste. My main beef is when people use a high end synthetic for 3,000 to 5,000 miles in a vehicle that doesn't require synthetic and they think they're doing their vehicle a huge favour.
 
Honestly, 10,000 miles on M1 is a reasonable choice. M1 has a warranty for such mileage, and I wouldn't consider such usage a waste. My main beef is when people use a high end synthetic for 3,000 to 5,000 miles in a vehicle that doesn't require synthetic and they think they're doing their vehicle a huge favour.
[/quote]

Agreed. What is it called? Peace of mind or some absurdity.
Synthetic last longer,it doesn't some magic elixir that eliminates wear. It protects for longer.
Tig has proven in his application that M1 is fine for 10000 mile intervals. Some engines tear up oil but his don't,hence his interval.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy


Honestly, 10,000 miles on M1 is a reasonable choice. M1 has a warranty for such mileage, and I wouldn't consider such usage a waste. My main beef is when people use a high end synthetic for 3,000 to 5,000 miles in a vehicle that doesn't require synthetic and they think they're doing their vehicle a huge favour.


Agreed. What is it called? Peace of mind or some absurdity.
Synthetic last longer,it doesn't some magic elixir that eliminates wear. It protects for longer.
Tig has proven in his application that M1 is fine for 10000 mile intervals. Some engines tear up oil but his don't,hence his interval.
[/quote]

As to the point of 10K OCIs. 10K has performed very well for me in all kinds of engines for the last 35 years. Even carbureted engine of the 70s, to 2.0 diesel engines of the 80s, to the modern fuel inj. engines we have today. Even if we only do 5K OCIs(a waste in my view)there is still engine benifits to a quality synthetic. Especially in extreme cold or hot temps.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Even if we only do 5K OCIs(a waste in my view)there is still engine benifits to a quality synthetic. Especially in extreme cold or hot temps.


Not true.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top