Just heard a radio ad for Sunoco E15...

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The owners manuals for several of my Toyotas say "no more than 10%." They're WRONG?????


Chances are, that's the most they've done extended testing with and feel safe saying "We're sure this will work without issues". That doesn't mean things won't handle more.

I've run 2 tanks of E40 or so through the Jeep in the past, and other than getting worse mileage, it didn't seem to care (actually ran a hair better in some ways). I just waited 30 seconds after startup for it to go into closed loop, and then drove it very gently (to keep it in closed loop) for the first 10 - 15 miles to let the fuel trims relearn to avoid it going lean in open loop (and I did the same after switching back to E10).

I can't run straight E85 without bigger injectors and some tuning changes though, as the PCM will only adjust +/- 30% fuel-wise, and E85 might require a bit more than that. Plus, anything beyond E70 or so would have me maxing out my injectors (and causing it to go lean) at high rpms and WOT.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
How is it wasted?

Here, ethanol is made differently than it is in the States. Here, they use feed grade grain and still use the remnants for sileage. It doesn't take anything out of the human food chain.

 

[Kestas]

Then why is it reported that a third of Iowa's corn crop and a quarter of Michigan's corn crop is used for ethanol? Are they ignoring the secondary use, and that ethanol production is just an interim step in series with producing feed?

 

[Garak]

Well, Michigan and Iowa are certainly different than Saskatchewan. Our ethanol production is solely from non-food grade grain (wheat, specifically). There is very little corn produced here and what is grown is by very small farmers and sold in farmers markets and the like.

With respect to wheat, a certain percentage is graded for animal feed only, due to weather damage, protein content, or even appearance. That's the kind that gets used for ethanol production. Number 1 wheat is too valuable to divert to animals up here.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
I love ethanol. Lets subsidize a local fuel as opposed to subsidizing an imported one. Besides, plenty of grain that would otherwise be wasted now has a use.
How is it wasted?


It's wasted when used to feed people...that would be the other use...either directly or as silage...

Am I the only one who has noticed how much food prices have gone up lately as grain is taken out of food production (shortage) and used to create ethanol? The Feds have mandated a specified amount of corn production be used to create ethanol...that required amount of corn is removed from food production and voila'...higher food prices...

 

[Shannow]

That grain that was "otherwise wasted" was the global stockpile that would see the world through a globally failed harvest, abd stabilise prices.

Now that food has been diverted to fuel, stockpiles are down to around a month...dunno about you but that scares the heck out of me.

As Astro pointed out, we are now competing against oil for our food.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Well, Michigan and Iowa are certainly different than Saskatchewan. Our ethanol production is solely from non-food grade grain (wheat, specifically). There is very little corn produced here and what is grown is by very small farmers and sold in farmers markets and the like.


But in that case, the competition between oil and food is back at the land utilisation, which could be used to grow food grains, actual food, or graze cattle.

(feedlotting is what gives greenies their arguments against beef)

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
But in that case, the competition between oil and food is back at the land utilisation, which could be used to grow food grains, actual food, or graze cattle.


Up here, at least, that's not much of an issue, Shannow. This province grows wheat, wheat, and more wheat. Things have changed in the past few decades, but wheat is still king, and crops still rule over livestock.

When it comes to wheat in Canada, the wheat is grown, then is graded when it's shipped for sale by the farmer. The farmer doesn't choose to grow low end feed grade wheat versus number one high protein human food grain. He grows his crop, takes it in, and it's graded there. If the weather has been bad, or there's been disease, or protein content is low, then it's given a low grade (i.e. animal feed). If the kernels are properly formed, protein content is high, and so forth, then it gets a high grade. The low grade can produce ethanol and feed animals, while the high end stuff goes to feed people.

Similar issues apply to barley. Only a certain percentage is fit to be malt barley. The rest is feed grade.

Geography is also a big issue in this province. Grazing land is pretty geographically distinct from cropland here. Of course, there is land suitable for both, but we certainly don't have the number of ranches that some provinces and states do.

 

[Astro14]

Garak - that makes sense...

But making 15 billion gallons per year, principally out of corn, isn't the same as grading the wheat and using the poor quality wheat...

But at least we're running the conversion plants mainly on coal-generated electricity...so, we've got that going for us...

Not that Wiki is definitive, but here's a bit to chew on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_the_United_States#Legislation_and_regulations

 

[Garak]

Absolutely, Astro. All I was trying to point out is that ethanol is made differently all over the world. Using corn to make ethanol is certainly not the same as taking wheat that is certified unfit for human consumption and using it to make ethanol and feed cattle in the process.

Obviously, it's not feasible to create ethanol out of corn in Saskatchewan. Our ethanol solution happens to be reasonable and fits with our climate and economy. That doesn't mean, unfortunately, that it's an applicable solution in every U.S. state, either.

Saskatchewan has a rather low population yet a huge amount of grain production. So, ethanol produced from feed grade wheat is more than sufficient. That isn't going to work for Rhode Island.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Warning about using E15 in vehicles older than model year 2012.

Video:
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/