Advantages of Synthetic Base Oils

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buster said:
I just find it funny how people get over the price of oil. My gasoline expense is far greater than my oil change expense. Cars are expensive, I don't sweat trying to save $1-$4qt on oil because relatively speaking, oil is cheap and engines are not. [/quote

I feel the same way. If I used dino I most likely would change every 5K. With M1 I change at 10K. So how is the cost a factor? Also look at the resourses I have save for the last 35 years.
 
Originally Posted By: electrolover
Tig whata your driving habits? Just normal mixed or all highway?
Ever got any uoas?


The Focus is about 30% local and 70% hwy. The Fusion is probably more like 60% hwy and 40% local. I did a UOA of the Focus several years ago for kicks, however I was using M1 5-30EP at the time. All was normal. Johnny and Fsskier convinced me to try 0-20 which I did 2 years ago. I really like the way it performs in the Duratechs. I actually plan to do a UOA soon on the Focus to see how the life time air filter is doing. Outside of that I don't do UOAs.
 
Wow I guess I am soooo lucky that my vehicles start in the winter or last past the warranty period on conventional oil.
 
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Originally Posted By: cb_13
Wow I guess I am soooo lucky that my vehicles start in the winter or last past the warranty period on conventional oil.


To me, it just seems like there are a lot of variables. Your sarcasm implies that those with opposing views (synthetic oil users) are saying it is a certainty any vehicle using conventional oil will fail in the specific circumstances mentioned. That is hardly the case. What's being said is there's a chance using one oil over the other could lead to engine damage. Certain vehicles are more sensitive to oil changes, as well. Nobody is implying that using regular conventional oil is wrong in any way, just that they don't want to take the chance should a situation arise where they'd wish they had used synthetic.

Like the great Allen Iverson said, 'we talkin bout practice!'
 
Conventionals AND synthetics both have their place, and both offer certain benefits, depending on applcations. Too bad the bashers immeadiatly came out. I knew it was going to happen before I even clicked on the topic. Go figure.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: electrolover
Tig whata your driving habits? Just normal mixed or all highway?
Ever got any uoas?


The Focus is about 30% local and 70% hwy. The Fusion is probably more like 60% hwy and 40% local. I did a UOA of the Focus several years ago for kicks, however I was using M1 5-30EP at the time. All was normal. Johnny and Fsskier convinced me to try 0-20 which I did 2 years ago. I really like the way it performs in the Duratechs. I actually plan to do a UOA soon on the Focus to see how the life time air filter is doing. Outside of that I don't do UOAs.


It was tig that suggested I try the AFE in my hemi. This morning when I started my truck it was -38. The truck started without issue,the power steering pump wasn't happy but the engine didn't mind at all.
I know my truck. Every sound,squeal,tap,everything. With PP at -30 it would turn over slightly slower then the AFE at -38.
Not scientific but noticeable to me. It also seems to rev a bit more free,like there is less of a restriction or something. Again. Not scientific.
I'm not a mobil fan and to be honest I was looking for a reason to not like this oil,as of yet I've found none. In the miserable cold we experience here I don't think there is a better oil.
Now if it was the heat of the summer and I was towing my trailer I would go up a grade but in these temps the AFE can't be beat.
I'm sure there are better oils out there for these kinds of temps but because I can get this oil anywhere,easily,and it's usually under 10 bucks a quart it's a no brainer to me.
The lower zddp found in this oil concerned me at first but there is alot of Mobil's in house version of moly in it which I feel comfortable in believing compensates for it.
I'm glad I took tigs advice and gave this oil an honest shot in my hemi.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: DragRace

I understand what your saying here,but to give an example to why synthetic oil,besides being more expensive oil has it's benefits.Our city dept street dept. and snow removal equipment was all converted over to synthetic oil a few years ago.In doing so,they've had less down time,resulting from their equipment starting easier,and plain starting period during the coldest times of the year.


When you get the time please post the link where the city has all these "features".

I've seen public safety and utilities get free/reduced oil for a few test vehicles and in the end they kept doing what they have done for years.

Most snow removal equipment issues are with hydraulics and the electric motors to spread salt. The power trains are quite reliable with any spec'd fluids.

Until they can take NEW units and run a few with syn and a few normal then that would be valid data.

Take care, Bill



I dont have any "link" to post. I'm goin from what my father told me,which he heard from a guy who does all the mechanical work on all of the snow plows,gravel trucks,etc. for the city.My dad has since passed away from Cancer,and so I cant go back and ask him what synthetic oil they used,etc,frankly it doesnt matter,period.They benefited from switching over to synthetic lubricants.No-one in the conversation had any reason to lie,or mislead,so take it for what it's worth.
 
Originally Posted By: kam327
Let's keep it apples to apples here. dIYers getting their supplies at Walmart will spend, what $20 on conventional oil and an OEM filter and at least $35 on M1 or similar and a long distance filter. So 75% more for synthetic.

Not seeing that. Here's my relative costs:

$632 for my gasoline + conventional oil + dealer labor charge over 5000 miles
-or-
$640 for my gasoline + synthetic oil + dealer charge

I only see 2% difference not 75.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: DragRace
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: DragRace

I understand what your saying here,but to give an example to why synthetic oil,besides being more expensive oil has it's benefits.Our city dept street dept. and snow removal equipment was all converted over to synthetic oil a few years ago.In doing so,they've had less down time,resulting from their equipment starting easier,and plain starting period during the coldest times of the year.


When you get the time please post the link where the city has all these "features".

I've seen public safety and utilities get free/reduced oil for a few test vehicles and in the end they kept doing what they have done for years.

Most snow removal equipment issues are with hydraulics and the electric motors to spread salt. The power trains are quite reliable with any spec'd fluids.

Until they can take NEW units and run a few with syn and a few normal then that would be valid data.

Take care, Bill



I dont have any "link" to post. I'm goin from what my father told me,which he heard from a guy who does all the mechanical work on all of the snow plows,gravel trucks,etc. for the city.My dad has since passed away from Cancer,and so I cant go back and ask him what synthetic oil they used,etc,frankly it doesnt matter,period.They benefited from switching over to synthetic lubricants.No-one in the conversation had any reason to lie,or mislead,so take it for what it's worth.


Interesting response. I ask because I am truly interested and HAVE ACTUAL experience with different results and wanted to see the other side.

Asked with respect and was respectful.




I guess friend of someone is factual around here...

Never mind. I'm done. I know what works for most of the fleets and personal vehicles out there.

Bill
 
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: kam327
Let's keep it apples to apples here. dIYers getting their supplies at Walmart will spend, what $20 on conventional oil and an OEM filter and at least $35 on M1 or similar and a long distance filter. So 75% more for synthetic.

Not seeing that. Here's my relative costs:

$632 for my gasoline + conventional oil + dealer labor charge over 5000 miles
-or-
$640 for my gasoline + synthetic oil + dealer charge

I only see 2% difference not 75.


Why the gas numbers being put in?

Please don't answer. Don't really care but find it interesting people throw in other factors than the subject matter.

Bill
 
Because synthetic is a more engineered, hi tech oil, then under the wider range of real life operating conditions we see in modern life, it allows the manufacturer to more precisely control the exact mileage where engine failure occurs, thus helping them better predict and plan for future demand.

That's why more and more manufacturers are moving to synthetic only oil requirements.
 
Originally Posted By: FoxS
Because synthetic is a more engineered, hi tech oil, then under the wider range of real life operating conditions we see in modern life, it allows the manufacturer to more precisely control the exact mileage where engine failure occurs, thus helping them better predict and plan for future demand.

That's why more and more manufacturers are moving to synthetic only oil requirements.


Why are the "synthetic" oil manufacturers "engineering" their product back to lesser specifications than they were ten years ago ?

If flash points, pour points, and inherent VI were relevant to your argument, they would have got better over the last decade than generally devolved to "equally useful" status of GrIII=GrIV.

As to planning engine failures...
 
Shannow, it also causes there to be more iron in the UOAs.

In particular, the iron type e: Iron-E
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: DragRace
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: DragRace

I understand what your saying here,but to give an example to why synthetic oil,besides being more expensive oil has it's benefits.Our city dept street dept. and snow removal equipment was all converted over to synthetic oil a few years ago.In doing so,they've had less down time,resulting from their equipment starting easier,and plain starting period during the coldest times of the year.


When you get the time please post the link where the city has all these "features".

I've seen public safety and utilities get free/reduced oil for a few test vehicles and in the end they kept doing what they have done for years.

Most snow removal equipment issues are with hydraulics and the electric motors to spread salt. The power trains are quite reliable with any spec'd fluids.

Until they can take NEW units and run a few with syn and a few normal then that would be valid data.

Take care, Bill



I dont have any "link" to post. I'm goin from what my father told me,which he heard from a guy who does all the mechanical work on all of the snow plows,gravel trucks,etc. for the city.My dad has since passed away from Cancer,and so I cant go back and ask him what synthetic oil they used,etc,frankly it doesnt matter,period.They benefited from switching over to synthetic lubricants.No-one in the conversation had any reason to lie,or mislead,so take it for what it's worth.


Interesting response. I ask because I am truly interested and HAVE ACTUAL experience with different results and wanted to see the other side.

Asked with respect and was respectful.




I guess friend of someone is factual around here...

Never mind. I'm done. I know what works for most of the fleets and personal vehicles out there.

Bill



Bill, since it is applicable to this discussion, our plow trucks for the county are all serviced at a large commercial truck centre that slammds15 worked at until quite recently. These trucks were all serviced with Delvac 1 and synthetic fluids because of their cold temperature performance. I will ask him to chime in about the OCI length, but the primary reason for the lubricant choice was due to the operating conditions of these trucks and there was indeed a noted improvement in their cold weather operation from this transition.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujobob
Originally Posted By: cb_13
Wow I guess I am soooo lucky that my vehicles start in the winter or last past the warranty period on conventional oil.


To me, it just seems like there are a lot of variables. Your sarcasm implies that those with opposing views (synthetic oil users) are saying it is a certainty any vehicle using conventional oil will fail in the specific circumstances mentioned. That is hardly the case. What's being said is there's a chance using one oil over the other could lead to engine damage. Certain vehicles are more sensitive to oil changes, as well. Nobody is implying that using regular conventional oil is wrong in any way, just that they don't want to take the chance should a situation arise where they'd wish they had used synthetic.

Like the great Allen Iverson said, 'we talkin bout practice!'

No my sarcasm is a reaction to the attitude of some(not all) that if you do not use synthetic you do not care about your vehicle. I usually keep my vehicles until 200k miles. No major engine problems on any I have owned. I have used but never stuck with a full synthetic oil. I do always use an oil that meets the specifications of my engine though.
 
I'll give everybody the best possible reason for using synthetic oil:
It's cheaper.
Synthetics are the premium products in their respective lines and carry higher margins.
The blenders would like you to become married to them.
They thus promote them heavily.
The last three jugs of AFE 0W-30 I used were $10.00 after MIR.
I have 25 qts of QSUD 5W-30 FAR and one jug of QSUD 0W-20 around $1.00 after MIR.
I have three jugs of Ultra FAR.
I have one jug of PP 0W-20 that was around $5.00 after MIR.
I have maybe six jugs of FAR G-Oil 5W-30.
My point is that for those who follow the deals, synthetics are usually on some sort of a deal pretty regularly, so they are often the least cost choice.
An FAR oil will usually run around 50-60 cents a quart after sales tax and postage.
Pretty darn cheap.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I'll give everybody the best possible reason for using synthetic oil:
It's cheaper.
Synthetics are the premium products in their respective lines and carry higher margins.
The blenders would like you to become married to them.
They thus promote them heavily.
The last three jugs of AFE 0W-30 I used were $10.00 after MIR.
I have 25 qts of QSUD 5W-30 FAR and one jug of QSUD 0W-20 around $1.00 after MIR.
I have three jugs of Ultra FAR.
I have one jug of PP 0W-20 that was around $5.00 after MIR.
I have maybe six jugs of FAR G-Oil 5W-30.
My point is that for those who follow the deals, synthetics are usually on some sort of a deal pretty regularly, so they are often the least cost choice.
An FAR oil will usually run around 50-60 cents a quart after sales tax and postage.
Pretty darn cheap.


Can't argue with those prices!
thumbsup2.gif
 
I think the decision to use synthetics comes down to the car you have, how you use it, and how long you plan to have it. For instance, my garage queen has a turbo engine that would cost 22-40k to replace depending upon the rebuild/new and who installs it. For that car, I will gladly spend an extra $40 per oil change to use the best possible oil. I would probably gladly spend an extra $200 if the consensus that the oil was the best possible for my application. I own my car and count on having it indefinitely. IMO, $200 per year is cheap insurance for the most protective component of a $40,000 engine.

Conversely, my fiancee drives a leased Honda Fit. Her car has no special need for synthetics, nor do I see the benefit in adding the cost to a car that she will trade in in a year. Ive used dino w the recommneded vicosity since she's had it. No problems - either with the car or sleeping at night.
 
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