Nissan QR25DE - Noise at Start-up

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barlowc

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Lately, I've noticed increased noise when I start my Nissan which has the QR25DE engine. It's for that first second when it fires up after which it quiets down, the RPMs fall, and it goes to idle. It only happens when the car has been sitting all night or all day while I'm at work.

I'm 5300 miles into a planned 6000 mile OCI. It's my second consecutive fill of G-OIL 5W-30 and I'm using the same DENSO 150-1010 filter I've used for the past 6 intervals. The filter cross-refs to a PL14610 and is the slightly longer variant of the PL14612 "shorty" that is spec.

It's never been what I would describe as super quiet at startup, but it does seem noisier lately.

What do you guys think it may be? Fatigue or failure of the filter's anti-drainback valve and it's letting oil drain out while sitting? Symptomatic of anything I should be concerned about?
 
Timing chain rattle? Low oil?

Start up rattle is common in Nissans it seems. I left my car sitting for a week one time and when I started it up, it sounded like a diesel for the first 5 or so seconds. I can normally tell when it needs oil by hearing the start-up noise. The dipstick on my car sucks so it can read full, but it could be .5-1 quart low. Engine still runs great and are known to run for a long time even with the start-up noise.
 
yeah--it's a chain. They seem to do that after car sits overnight or chain guides are worn. My 03 3.5L Altima did that (especially close to 155k miles) , but my Pop's 06 Frontier with 2.5 seems to be fine so far with 115k miles.
Try adding LM MoS2 it might quite it down.
 
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My '04 Altima 2.5S(QR25DE) has been this way since new. It's all over the web!

I have had the best success with Purolator Classic Filters(#14610) for the startup rattle noise. Oversizing the filter is also a No-No in this engine IMHO, it just makes matters worst. I had a couple of NAPA Pro-Select that were quite good also. It seem as though, even silicone ADBV are no extra guarantee against this startup noise.

As Autumn approaches and the temps become cooler, you may notice this startup rattle a bit more often and...during the witer months, I get timing chain rattle during the first few minutes of driving after a cold startup when the car had been sitting for hours. So, I just drive easy to minimize the noise.

Also, I park on as level ground as possible or with the passenger side of the car(the oil filter side) a bit lower than the driver side as every filter I have ever used in this engine, drains down(poor ADBV). Even Pure One Filter with their RED Silicone ADBV are no better in this engine. Nor are the NISSAN Filters. And the SuperTech and FRAM/OCOD Filters were the "WORST" in this engine!

But, with the Puro Classic(#14610), so far, so good on most days.
 
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Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Timing chain rattle? Low oil?

Could be, and I was thinking the same. Typically, at the end of an OCI, 4.5 quarts is what drains out. Since 5 quarts goes in, I'm probably running about a half quart low right now. I'm going to check the level tomorrow morning, though I don't really want to add any at this point and affect the UOA results. I'll be draining the oil in about 700 miles and sending it in.

Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I have had the best success with Purolator Classic Filters(#14610) for the startup rattle noise. Oversizing the filter is also a No-No in this engine IMHO, it just makes matters worst.

What do you consider oversize for this engine? While technically my 2008 specs the shorter PL14612 size file, I've been using filters that cross-ref to the slightly longer PL14610, which is what used to be spec for the QR25DE.

I don't necessarily believe that using a PL14610 versus a PL14612 is "better" in any way for my vehicle. My main reason for using the PL14610 size is that it allow me to stock a single filter since that what our VUE uses, as does my mother-in-law's Civic.

I've been using the DENSO 150-1010 filters for quite some time. I just got some Fram Ultra XG7317 filters and was planning to use one on my next fill here in a couple weeks.
 
I think the oversized filter for most nissan cars is no big deal as the Wix like we use at work are a 51365 or a bigger 51356 which are only maybe a 1/2 longer so not much difference there really just looks better longer. Older nissan's list 51356 newer 51365 don't know why.
 
Quote barlowc: "What do you consider oversize for this engine? While technically my 2008 specs the shorter PL14612 size file, I've been using filters that cross-ref to the slightly longer PL14610, which is what used to be spec for the QR25DE". Quote

When Purolator was making the Premium Plus #24457(Large size), this was quite a bit larger although it is now discontinued. I had many of these filter in my stash from a previous Honda Accord before Purolator only carried the #14458(mid size). I was getting quite a bit of startup rattle no matter what I tried to do. This #24457 allowed the use of the full 5 qts of oil during the OCI compared to the #14610(small size) at 4.5 qts. Other filter mfg's have a similar larger size filter such as WIX/NAPA, Fram, STP but, I don't know the part#'s
 
A larger filter may take longer to build oil pressure, so maybe you should switch back to the correct filter size to see if it solves the problem.

Perhaps as the car ages and accumulates more miles, the hydraulic tensioners are no longer working as well; so combined with the larger filter, they may be causing your rattle?
 
I checked the oil level today. It was about halfway between the high and low marks on the dipstick. But like I said earlier, being 5400 miles in to an OCI, I imagine I'm running about 0.5 quarts shy on the 5.0 quarts that went in.
 
Very well. Those are the only TSBs that have start up rattle / noise as a symptom for 2008 Altima Sedans.

My father's 2007 Altima 2.5L with approx. 96k miles also has occasional start up rattle, even with a Nissan OEM oil filter ("shorty" of course). It does however have some other exhaust heat shield rattling which is the most likely cause (it also rattles around 1500 RPM), and it is not affected by the recall. I may try to remove or replace the rattling heat shield at some point to see if it solves the problem.
 
Originally Posted By: Towncivilian
Does NTB07-021b - 2007 – 2008 ALTIMA; WITH QR25 ENGINE RATTLE WHEN STARTING apply to you?

OP Update: I had my vehicle in for some service and asked them to check out the noise. They confirmed my concern/complaint and reprogrammed the ECM per a TSB they found. I'm pretty sure they did what's covered in NTB07-021b which I had provided the Service Advisor a copy of. Thanks again for supplying that, Towncivilian.
 
Originally Posted By: barlowc
Lately, I've noticed increased noise when I start my Nissan which has the QR25DE engine. It's for that first second when it fires up after which it quiets down, the RPMs fall, and it goes to idle. It only happens when the car has been sitting all night or all day while I'm at work......

When I owned my 03 2.5L Altima I had a similar engine noise, but it was most noticeable in the winter time and virtually gone by spring/summer. Filter size, or manufacturer made no difference. I believe it to be the time chain and the thicker oil at start up, because it went away as engine warmed to operating temperture. In my experience the oil filter was no factor from the oem shorty to aftermarket longer 14610/7317 it made no difference as the temperature dropped.

As for the ecm reprogram, that's one of Nissan favorite faux fixes for an issue. Supposedly had one with the bogus precat recall and iirc for the faulty 2.5 L Crank Angle Sensors, but not positive about the latter. All moot anyway as the for 02-03 2.5L (and some 04's as a recent thread here proved) when the precats fail rendering the engine terminal and the owner SOL.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
As for the ecm reprogram, that's one of Nissan favorite faux fixes for an issue.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure the issue persists; it rattled a bit this morning. So it leaves me wondering what exactly the ECM update did and whether it's good, bad, or doesn't matter at all.
 
I have noticed that my '04 has certainly quieted down more than ever before. I have been staying with the Purolator Classic #14610 and I do like QSGB 5W30.

As I mentioned in other replies, check to see that the car is parked, leaning down more on the passenger side as to keep the oil filter from draining back into the engine.

When parking this way for long periods of time(overnight or for the work day), I didn't get the "DREADED Startup rattle".

This helped me determine that the issue was the oil filter position in the engine...Horizontal on the passenger side!

These 2.5L(QR25DE) engines also experience that "Dreaded Timing Chain Rattle as Sayjac has mentioned. I have found that with the newer oils(SN/GF-5), there is less of the rattle on those cold day startups during the first few miles/minutes of driving.

When I first bought the '04 Altima 2.5, the oil spec was SL/GF-3. As the oil classification has moved to SM/GF-4 and now SN/GF-5, the noises have actually been getting better even when starting the engine for the first time of the day AND, the outside tempuratures are in the mid 20's deg's F.

The timing chain rattle is not completly gone as it does depend on outside temps but, it has gotten better!.

And too, as long as I park on somewhat level ground, I haven't experienced the startup rattle unless I actually park with the driverside "LOWER" than the passenger side for long periods of time such as the whole day or more.

These are just my personal tip to try!
Hope it helps
smile.gif
 
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