Destination LE2 updates?

[Grebbler]

Howdy.

I have an '02 Tahoe and am looking at the Mich LTX MS2 or the Destination LE2's. I thought I would be 4 wheeling in the weeds or dealing with lots of snow when I bought the Desti AT's, but there are little opportunities for either in Detroit. I used to blame the Canadians for blowing their snow over here but now it seems they are keeping it for some nefarious plot

Now I am mostly on highways and want quiet control rather than beefy looks. I am leaning towards the LE2's because my local Firestone dealer treats me okay, I don't like Belle Tire, Discount Tire doesn't do alignments and the price is reasonable - around $600.

The Desti AT's have been 'OK' but I think the rain handling could be better and the truck wallows a bit. I know it's a heavy beast and I was hoping to hear from LE2 owners on how they are holding up over time with the short sipes and all. If it matters, my size is 265/70R16.

Ed

 

[Johnny248]

Can't speak for Le2's other than I've read good reviews. I own M/S2's and wouldn't trade them. They are excellent tires, extremely quiet, and ride great.

 

[bepperb]

I think the LE2's are more comparable to the Michelin Lattitudes as a crossover mostly highway tire. The MS2 is probably a bit more truckish even though it's still pretty quiet.

I have the MS2's on the Highlander and they are probably the only tire I've ever had I would buy again and again. I would have considered the Le2's had they been out at the time, but probably would have gone with the Michelins because I run them year round and their snow traction is that good.

 

[Rand]

if you are planning on keeping the tahoe the michelins are probably cheaper due to longer tread life with little change in performance as they wear.

if you are planning on ditching the tahoe the firestones may be more attractive.

 

[JavierG]

I still have the original Michelin LTX's on my Ridgeline (72+k miles) and they are still performing exemplary. Been to the snow only twice but they handled it with ease. Same with rain and dry conditions. Expensive but worth it.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Grebbler
Howdy.

I have an '02 Tahoe and am looking at the Mich LTX MS2 or the Destination LE2's. I thought I would be 4 wheeling in the weeds or dealing with lots of snow when I bought the Desti AT's, but there are little opportunities for either in Detroit. I used to blame the Canadians for blowing their snow over here but now it seems they are keeping it for some nefarious plot

Now I am mostly on highways and want quiet control rather than beefy looks. I am leaning towards the LE2's because my local Firestone dealer treats me okay, I don't like Belle Tire, Discount Tire doesn't do alignments and the price is reasonable - around $600.

The Desti AT's have been 'OK' but I think the rain handling could be better and the truck wallows a bit. I know it's a heavy beast and I was hoping to hear from LE2 owners on how they are holding up over time with the short sipes and all. If it matters, my size is 265/70R16.

Ed


I actually am having a set of LE2's put on my Jeep in the morning. I can't offer up any 1st hand experience yet though. I will say I LOVED the original LE's however for truck/suv use. Best All Season tires I ever ran on my trucks and suv's and that includes the Michelin LTX M+S( original - never ran the M+S2 ). If you search this forum another BITOG member got some and posted they liked them a lot. Haven't seen much about them in these forums though. Pretty strong Michelin bias here( which is ok - not starting anything ).

FWIW the LE2 has passed the LTX M+S2 as the top all season highway tire for customer reviews on tirerack. Not many review miles as it is so new compared to the M+S2 so it may fall off in time but so far the reviews are excellent in all aspects. It is also rated higher for snow and ice in the reviews. LTX M+S2 is rated higher in treadwear but the LE2 does well there too though.

Your call obviously but just as with the originals vs each other( i.e. LE vs LTX M+S )for me I could not justify the extra $50-$100+ a tire to go with Michelins for a few miles more in life. In every other aspect the original LE's held their own or even surpassed the original M+S in my experience. I also experienced very long tread life from my LE's so that never even favored the Michelins.

The LE2 so far seems to be a really good tire. Through the 21st of January, if you have the coupon, you can get them at a Firestone Service Center for store cost + $1 each.

I don't think you will be unhappy with either tire but to me when you factor in cost the LE2's come out a big winner.

 

[Grebbler]

Thanks for the replies so far.

The M/S2 may be great tires but $400 difference for a set is not to be sneezed at. My main concern is the wear and performance over time. How long before the siping is worn away?

The talk of newer tires is the silica rubber. My reading on that subject is mixed. The marketing folks say it's great and gives best of both worlds, soft rubber with good wear. Yet other info says silica is a compromise. A filler to reduce rubber (carbon footprint) and rolling resistance for the EPA and will perform close to an old school tire.

I went and looked at the LE2's and tread depth is maybe 1/2 of the AT's. For street use that's fine and should work well in light snow as it's the compacted snow in the voids that give you grip and deep lugs will only hinder that.

My AT's with about 30-40K on them. They already have signs of dry rot.

I am already near the wear indicators..

It looks like I have excessive outside wear but I am already running them a few pounds over the PSI listed on door jamb. Should I go more?

Anyway, I hope those that got the LE2's when they came out (6 months ago?) will chime in.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Grebbler

I went and looked at the LE2's and tread depth is maybe 1/2 of the AT's. For street use that's fine and should work well in light snow as it's the compacted snow in the voids that give you grip and deep lugs will only hinder that.


Did you look at the LE2's in your size? Tread depth is the same as the AT's for a regular P tire and is very close if you are running LT's.

Destination LE2 P265/70R16 = 13/32
Destination AT P265/70R16 = 13/32
Destination AT LT265/70R16D = 15/32

 

[NHHEMI]

I actually went and found the thread for you I was talking about. BITOG member MEEP got them. Even the same size as yours...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2692790

 

[Grebbler]

Yeah. I found that in my researches and it's about the only thread I found with some depth. Tirerack is the other big source of info on them.

My truck is close to 6000 lbs normal load and I wonder if I am on the outer edge of the limit, profile wise, not weight.

Wilderness LE's wore evenly.
AT's are wearing on the outsides and I wonder if I have to run them at 45 psi or so. I regret the Bilstein HD shocks, it's already too harsh at 38-40 PSI.

I saw your nudge to him to get back with us. Thank you for that

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Grebbler
Thanks for the replies so far.

The M/S2 may be great tires but $400 difference for a set is not to be sneezed at. My main concern is the wear and performance over time. How long before the siping is worn away?

The talk of newer tires is the silica rubber. My reading on that subject is mixed. The marketing folks say it's great and gives best of both worlds, soft rubber with good wear. Yet other info says silica is a compromise. A filler to reduce rubber (carbon footprint) and rolling resistance for the EPA and will perform close to an old school tire.

I went and looked at the LE2's and tread depth is maybe 1/2 of the AT's. For street use that's fine and should work well in light snow as it's the compacted snow in the voids that give you grip and deep lugs will only hinder that.

My AT's with about 30-40K on them. They already have signs of dry rot.

I am already near the wear indicators..

It looks like I have excessive outside wear but I am already running them a few pounds over the PSI listed on door jamb. Should I go more?

Anyway, I hope those that got the LE2's when they came out (6 months ago?) will chime in.


This is one thing that Michelin does that BFS does not. They use full depth siping on the M/S2 which means the sipes are all the way through the useable tread of the tire, where as Bridgestone/Firestone does not. The siping only goes about half way through the useable tread. Therefore, as the tire wears the Michelin will maintain better snow traction than the Firestones. Also, BFS uses Nylon in their tires still, while Michelin uses a polyamide.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
.....Also, BFS uses Nylon in their tires still, while Michelin uses a polyamide.


I hope you realize that polyamide is a generic way of saying nylon.

OK, not exactly. Polyamides include a whole group of things that are similar to nylon - like kevlar. But the important point is that it includes nylon and I'm willing to bet that they are actually using nylon and not one of the other polyamides.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: Grebbler
Thanks for the replies so far.

The M/S2 may be great tires but $400 difference for a set is not to be sneezed at. My main concern is the wear and performance over time. How long before the siping is worn away?

The talk of newer tires is the silica rubber. My reading on that subject is mixed. The marketing folks say it's great and gives best of both worlds, soft rubber with good wear. Yet other info says silica is a compromise. A filler to reduce rubber (carbon footprint) and rolling resistance for the EPA and will perform close to an old school tire.

I went and looked at the LE2's and tread depth is maybe 1/2 of the AT's. For street use that's fine and should work well in light snow as it's the compacted snow in the voids that give you grip and deep lugs will only hinder that.

My AT's with about 30-40K on them. They already have signs of dry rot.

I am already near the wear indicators..

It looks like I have excessive outside wear but I am already running them a few pounds over the PSI listed on door jamb. Should I go more?

Anyway, I hope those that got the LE2's when they came out (6 months ago?) will chime in.


This is one thing that Michelin does that BFS does not. They use full depth siping on the M/S2 which means the sipes are all the way through the useable tread of the tire, where as Bridgestone/Firestone does not. The siping only goes about half way through the useable tread. Therefore, as the tire wears the Michelin will maintain better snow traction than the Firestones. Also, BFS uses Nylon in their tires still, while Michelin uses a polyamide.


Michelin uses nylon in the LTX M+S2 as well per their site.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: JavierG
I still have the original Michelin LTX's on my Ridgeline (72+k miles) and they are still performing exemplary. Been to the snow only twice but they handled it with ease. Same with rain and dry conditions. Expensive but worth it.


This is a common thread with the LTX series. They seem to last nearly forever.

On our very heavy fleet trucks they last THREE TIMES as long as some competitors!

Another thing to note: many tires lose performance as the tread wears down, eventually becoming a completely different animal. The Michelins keep their performance until bald.

Note also we live in Florida, so I am not implying anything about snow!

 

[Hokiefyd]

The LTX M/S2, significantly, carries an "A" grade for temperature, whereas most tires in this class (including the LE2) do not. This is relevant to you, given the heavy load on your vehicle and tires (you said 6,000 pounds).

A co-worker of mine has the LE2s on his Escape, at my recommendation. They're fantastic tires. But they will wear out sooner, you will see performance step down as miles pile on (due to the siping that is not full depth on those), and they don't carry the same heat grade that the Michelins do.

You do get what you pay for. On Tire Rack, the cost difference between the Michelin and the Firestone is only 57 dollars apiece. That's 228 bucks. On tread life alone, you might call that a draw, as the Michelins should last longer. On the performance aspect, you can assign your own value to more even performance and a better temperature grade; each of us will value that stuff differently.

 

[meep]

I have LE2's on my tundra double cab 2wd. They have about 9000 miles on them and have been great so far. they are quiet, balanced easily, smooth. they track better than the geolander/wrangler combo that came off. they handle aggressive manuevers predictably. Even with only 2wd, I pulled a 25' boat up the wet ramp with no drama. We've had cold rain here but no snow--- and they retain good grip when cold, but I can't attest to snow. they are well-siped so I suspect they'd be fair as far as all seasons go in the snow. the remind me a lot of the old bridgestone dueler HL, which at least used to get great reviews and was a great, long-lived highway tire on 2 of our past vehicles.

And if you shop around, the price is pretty darn hard to beat. Even if you pay full retail, I would not hesitate to recommend them.

AFA the rolling resistance claims, I really can't tell at the pump. I have tried to see if there's a difference, but it's so small compared to what came off that I just can't make a claim.

But, very happy with mine. tredwear so far looks to meet the warranty.

 

[NHHEMI]

Just got back a while ago from having LE2's put on my Jeep. All I can say for the initial impression is WOW! The ride is so much nicer, smoother, and quieter with these vs the OE tires. I will echo Meep's comments about they track really nice. Also, I noticed that the steering is smoother/easier. It was clear by the very short time we were there( less than an hour in and out )that they balanced easily for them. Not so much as the tiniest of shimmer or shake at any speed.

Just a few hours into it but I am really happy I got these. I also had a Firestone Service Center coupon that really saved me some cash. 4 P225/65R17's M&B out the door w/ road hazard for just $565.57( RH = $60 ).

No brainer for me to go with these over the LTX M+S2's.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
No brainer for me to go with these over the LTX M+S2's.


Not to mention, the LTX M/S2s aren't available in your size.

(Kidding, I know what you're saying.)

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
No brainer for me to go with these over the LTX M+S2's.


Not to mention, the LTX M/S2s aren't available in your size.

(Kidding, I know what you're saying.)


Actually, you are right. I could have sworn I saw them a while ago in that size. Pretty stupid of me.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I do wish they were available in this size. My CR-V uses it as well (actually, 225/65R17, without the preceding P).

The Michelin in our size is the Latitude, which matches the trim line of your Jeep. Coincidence??

Keep us in the loop on how the LE2s perform for you. They are great tires.