What is Dexos? And Pennzoil Ultra failed?

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Brenden
it was confirmed a bit ago by a member talking to pennzoil that Ultra was a 100% PAO oil.

No, it wasn't.

The chat went something like this:

User: does Ultra contain PAO?
Pennzoil: Yes.
User: does Ultra contain GTL?
Pennzoil: Yes.

How one could extrapolate from this that Ultra is 100% PAO, I have no idea. Besides, no oil can be 100% PAO because the additives would not dissolve in it.


Hmm I remember a pretty prominent member touting it was 100% PAO and that they confirmed it in chat, I'll take your word for it though.

But none the less, Ultra would pass Dexos if they wanted to licenses it, but the bean counters probably factored in the increase of sales for Ultra from a Dexos cert and it likely fell short of the substantial amount it costs to get it Dexos certified.


I have discussed this with Shell technical services and have posted this before on here along with read printed publications from Shell Pennzoil Ultra in primarily a group III synthetic.

 

[Quattro Pete]

dave, how long ago? Ultra was recently reformulated. Based on the new NOACK numbers, it can't possibly be predominantly plain old group III anymore.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Brenden
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Brenden
it was confirmed a bit ago by a member talking to pennzoil that Ultra was a 100% PAO oil.

No, it wasn't.

The chat went something like this:

User: does Ultra contain PAO?
Pennzoil: Yes.
User: does Ultra contain GTL?
Pennzoil: Yes.

How one could extrapolate from this that Ultra is 100% PAO, I have no idea. Besides, no oil can be 100% PAO because the additives would not dissolve in it.


Hmm I remember a pretty prominent member touting it was 100% PAO and that they confirmed it in chat, I'll take your word for it though.

But none the less, Ultra would pass Dexos if they wanted to licenses it, but the bean counters probably factored in the increase of sales for Ultra from a Dexos cert and it likely fell short of the substantial amount it costs to get it Dexos certified.


I have discussed this with Shell technical services and have posted this before on here along with read printed publications from Shell Pennzoil Ultra in primarily a group III synthetic.

When was the last time you "discussed" this with them? For the SM formula?
Yes it was Grp III.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Why does Pennzoil Ultra not pass, but lesser oils like Platinum and Gold (blend) do?

Dexos is a money grab for GM. It does not make sense for oil manufacturer to carry the Dexos logo on oil their products, because that just means they'll have to pay more fees to GM.


Why is it anymore of a "money grab" than any of the spec's listed for German cars?

 

[Ken2]

The dexos licensing fee is a money grap. dexos itself is an upgrade above ordinary oils and a tighter spec than many modern "synthetic" labeled oils. (Yes, lower case d in dexos.)

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Why does Pennzoil Ultra not pass, but lesser oils like Platinum and Gold (blend) do?

Dexos is a money grab for GM. It does not make sense for oil manufacturer to carry the Dexos logo on oil their products, because that just means they'll have to pay more fees to GM.


Why is it anymore of a "money grab" than any of the spec's listed for German cars?


Because they don't charge royalties.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Why is it anymore of a "money grab" than any of the spec's listed for German cars?

Because of the way the money is collected. The way I understand it, it's not just a one-time fee to get it certified. Oil manufacturers have to pay GM $X for every bottle of oil they sell.

 

[dave1251]

September has any thing changed in the last 90 days?

 

[Trav]

So i guess they are lying in these chats.
I need to hear this from them.

So you are saying they will divulge proprietary information over the phone?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Pennzoil has been known to give conflicting info, that's for sure. The info given to me by someone in Brand Marketing said that the new Ultra is PAO-based.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Pennzoil has been known to give conflicting info, that's for sure. The info given to me by someone in Product Management said that the new Ultra is PAO-based.

The pour point is low and the NOAK is very low, as low as Amsoils 0w30 in fact. It doesn't sound like a grp III oil.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Trav
The pour point is low and the NOAK is very low, as low as Amsoils 0w30 in fact. It doesn't sound like a grp III oil.

Yup. That's my point as well. However, you'll find people here saying that these new NOACK figures are hogwash because Pennzoil won't officially post them on their website.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Trav
So i guess they are lying in these chats.
I need to hear this from them.

So you are saying they will divulge proprietary information over the phone?


No email, even better. You honestly do not recall having this conversation? If memory serves me correct and I could be wrong but I posted this information about the same time as the Honda sluddger fiasco.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Trav
The pour point is low and the NOAK is very low, as low as Amsoils 0w30 in fact. It doesn't sound like a grp III oil.

Yup. That's my point as well. However, you'll find people here saying that these new NOACK figures are hogwash because Pennzoil won't officially post them on their website.

But the TDS is there for the world to see on the Shell website.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Why is it anymore of a "money grab" than any of the spec's listed for German cars?

Because of the way the money is collected. The way I understand it, it's not just a one-time fee to get it certified. Oil manufacturers have to pay GM $X for every bottle of oil they sell.



I think I read that it costs 12 cents a quart for the dexos license....this is why Valvoline and Castrol have chosen not to 'certify' their oils but do state right on the container that they meet or exceed the spec.

I wouldn't hesitate to use either of these oils despite not being certified.

I agree that PU probably exceeds the spec but SOPUS chose to only certify PP, QSUD and Pennzoil semi-syn.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: dave1251

But the TDS is there for the world to see on the Shell website.

I know, but the official Pennzoil site still links to the old TDS.

If the new TDS is correct, then how do you explain such low NOACK numbers if the oil is predominantly group III, according to your source?

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: dave1251

But the TDS is there for the world to see on the Shell website.

I know, but the official Pennzoil site still links to the old TDS.

If the new TDS is correct, then how do you explain such low NOACK numbers if the oil is predominantly group III, according to your source?


I will post more on this on Monday or Tuesday. I could be wrong but at least it will be a official email from Shell lubricants.

 

[HyundaiGuy]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Trav I saw someone on this board state Ultra was 100% PAO as well. I know it wasn't you and I can't find it. I saw it here recently in fact. The search engine here leaves a lot to the imagination.


It may have come from Trav's response to my thread looking for recommendation for our new Fiat 500 Sports:

Trav: I would just put PU 5w30 Full PAO/GTL synthetic in it and sleep well.

That's what I did and I do sleep well! And for all the folks that slammed Fiat in my thread- zero issues with either one. Tony may be retired....

 

[wolf_06]

Originally Posted By: HyundaiGuy
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Trav I saw someone on this board state Ultra was 100% PAO as well. I know it wasn't you and I can't find it. I saw it here recently in fact. The search engine here leaves a lot to the imagination.


It may have come from Trav's response to my thread looking for recommendation for our new Fiat 500 Sports:

Trav: I would just put PU 5w30 Full PAO/GTL synthetic in it and sleep well.

That's what I did and I do sleep well! And for all the folks that slammed Fiat in my thread- zero issues with either one. Tony may be retired....
really like the fiat, a lot of postive stuff to say about it, the abhart is awsome little car

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
I will post more on this on Monday or Tuesday. I could be wrong but at least it will be a official email from Shell lubricants.


It might as well be pixie dust considering it's availability up here, Dave.