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#2863468 - 01/08/13 08:24 PM NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ

The car:



The engine:



The current odometer as of 1/8/2013:



Miles on car 275,880 at UOA, miles on oil 24,988 miles

Total oil used was 8 quarts of Neo 0w5 Racing synthetic. One VW full flow filter and a new Amsoil BE-90 were used. I used 8oz of 2T oil in the tank per fill up, usually Phillips 66 or Mark III castor oil. I also added 8 oz of ZMAX twice to the fuel at 10k interval.

All UOAs and VOA were done by Polaris lab. They ran the UOA twice due to the high lead and fuel numbers.

.....................UOA.....VOA
Iron................31.........1
Chromium.........0..........0
Nickle..............0..........0
Aluminum.........6..........1
Copper.............4.........1
Lead...............103.......89
Tin.................0..........0
Silicon.............4..........6
Sodium............2..........7
Potasium...........2........0
Molybdenum......59........1
Antimony..........0.........1
Manganese........0.........0
Boron..............33........73
Magnesium.......238.......232
Calcium...........2583......2224
Phosphorus.......1222......1008
Zinc............ ..1225......1027

Fuel.............. 5.5%...........0.0%
Soot............. 0.1%...........0.0%
Water (IR)...... < 0.1..........< 0.1%
VIS @ 100C ..... 8.2 cSt......7.4
TBN.............. 5.43...........8.03
IR Oxidation.... 39.............29
IR Nitration...... 9.............10

The high fuel contamination is probably due to the 4k miles this summer when both of my radiator fans went out and the engine overheated on several occasions. I have seen this before when the AIS malfunctioned and the ECU was trying to compensate by dumping extra fuel to keep the engine running.

There is no Moly in the VOA so the 59 of moly is from the previous run of Red Line 5w20 (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2490587#Post2490587). Apparently, there is a 10.4% of residual oil from the Red Line OCI (58/557 = 0.104129). If you subtract 10.4% of the previous UOA from the current UOA then it would more realistically approximate the performance of the NEO 0w5. Therefore, the numbers below are what should be if I was to run the NEO from the beginning and they do track well with the VOA.

...................-10.4% .....VOA
Iron................27.........1
Aluminum.........5..........1
Copper............4..........1
Lead...............101.......89
Silicon.............4..........6
Sodium............2..........7
Potasium..........2.........0
Boron..............30........73
Magnesium.......235.......232
Calcium...........2309......2224
Phosphorus.......1099......1008
Zinc............ ..1092......1027

The Lead number is about the same as the last OCI so I donít think it was the ZMAX additives in the oil. My experiment with this vehicle is now completed. Barring any mechanical problem I will continue to run the NEO 0w5 until the car is either wreck or stolen. My mileage went from annual average of 44mpg (48 max) when new to 57mpg (62 max) now with all the mods and the low viscosity oil. One thing I might do when I change the timing belt is to switch the tranny fluid from Red Line MTL to ELF HTX740.

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#2863478 - 01/08/13 08:34 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Phishin Offline


Registered: 05/01/12
Posts: 1427
Loc: Indiana
WOW!! Very impressive. That is incredible.
_________________________
2010 Accord-LX K24: PU 5w30
2009 Subaru Forester 2.5X: M1 5w40 TDT
1990 Chevy K1500 350TBI: Frankenbrew
2008 Ruckus 50ccGET: M1R Mix

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#2863488 - 01/08/13 08:39 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9696
Loc: Illinois
Does this oil have the CL rating or what? What is cost per qt?
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 138,000 miles
M1 0-20
2007 Ford Focus 126,000 miles
M1 0-20
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE

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#2863489 - 01/08/13 08:39 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
BTW, the TBN is still 5.43 after 25K miles. Surprised the heck out of me.


Edited by azsynthetic (01/08/13 08:40 PM)

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#2863527 - 01/08/13 09:07 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Gabe Offline


Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 1400
Loc: Chicago, IL
I find it interesting that there is no additional silicon after 25K desert miles on an intake taped up and missing a hose clamp....

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#2863536 - 01/08/13 09:13 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
From past experiences, I no longer drive during dust storm and I went back to VW airfilters instead of FRAM.

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#2863546 - 01/08/13 09:18 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33224
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
BTW, the TBN is still 5.43 after 25K miles. Surprised the heck out of me.


Because you put so darn much new oil in there! Some of the wear metals were gone too. You replaced what? 8 quarts on a 6 quart sump? So you put like ~15% fresh oil in 8 times?

Multiply that out and see what the numbers may actually be.

I think youre putting a lot of wear on the engine, but its had a long life as it is.

Great experiment though, thanks for doing this, its really great stuff!

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#2863552 - 01/08/13 09:23 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: JHZR2]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Because you put so darn much new oil in there! Some of the wear metals were gone too. You replaced what? 8 quarts on a 6 quart sump? So you put like ~15% fresh oil in 8 times?



Maybe you just can't read. I SAID TOTAL OIL USED FOR THIS OCI IS 8 quarts. That is only 8 quarts for 25K miles. Another word, 6 quarts at the beginning plus 2 quarts of makeup oils. Let me know if you want me to do a pie chart.


Edited by azsynthetic (01/08/13 09:24 PM)

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#2863563 - 01/08/13 09:37 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
oilboy123 Offline


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 6525
Loc: Everett, Washington
I thought that when you said "used" you meant the make up oil as well.

Nice test. I've got 170K on my Taurus running Amsoil for about 10-15K.
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#2863568 - 01/08/13 09:40 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: oilboy123]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
I thought that when you said "used" you meant the make up oil as well.


And when I said "total" that means everything is included does it not?

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#2863582 - 01/08/13 10:08 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
MBS500 Offline


Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 665
Loc: Crestwood,KY
So the turbo diesel that calls for heavy 30 oil or 40 oils, runs great on 0w5 non diesel rated oil?
Hmm, I guess I could dump 5w20 VVB in my MB? smile


Edited by MBS500 (01/08/13 10:09 PM)
_________________________
13 Fiat 500Turbo:9k,M1 0w40/Mopar filter+Ceratec
06 BMW 550i:81k,Mag1 5w40/Champ filter+MoS2
06 Frontier:110k,Oil lefovers mix/P1

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#2863597 - 01/08/13 10:30 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
trooper001 Offline


Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 130
Loc: California
I take it these were rural and/or highway miles, not the typical stop-and-go traffic, correct?

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#2863607 - 01/08/13 10:39 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
90% highway between 55-65 mph.

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#2863642 - 01/08/13 11:36 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
MinamiKotaro Online   content


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 573
Loc: TN
Been waiting for this a while. I don't think I'm brave enough to try 0w-5 on any of my vehicles, much less an extended drain, but your results are very impressive when broken down to PPM/1000mi.

Thank you for sharing you experiment with us!


Edited by MinamiKotaro (01/08/13 11:45 PM)
_________________________
1967 VW Beetle: Mag1 5-40 Fleet/NAPA 41516
2004 Saturn Ion: T6/PYB frankenbrew/Wix 57082xp
2014 Polaris Ranger 570: QSUD 5-50/Wix 51356

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#2863662 - 01/09/13 12:25 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
OB4x4 Offline


Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 107
Loc: sc, usa
Interesting experiment. Thank you for posting the results.

Curious that the viscosity went that high with so much fuel in it.

Just curious where you got the oil as I didn't see anything lighter than a 5w-20 on their website.
_________________________
00 toyota tacoma 3rz 181,000 mi
m1 5w-30 (5-7k mi oci), mt90, m175w-90.

08 scion xb 2az 70k mi.
m15w-20 (5k mi oci), idemistsu tls-lv

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#2863669 - 01/09/13 12:42 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: OB4x4]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: OB4x4


Curious that the viscosity went that high with so much fuel in it.



The viscosity went up because of the 10.4% of the residual oil higher viscosity.

I got most of my NEO oils from Baker Precision. NEO might not make them anymore but you still can get them from internet dealers. I got about 60 quarts left and they are dedicated to this vehicle.

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#2863671 - 01/09/13 12:42 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Because you put so darn much new oil in there! Some of the wear metals were gone too. You replaced what? 8 quarts on a 6 quart sump? So you put like ~15% fresh oil in 8 times?



Maybe you just can't read. I SAID TOTAL OIL USED FOR THIS OCI IS 8 quarts. That is only 8 quarts for 25K miles. Another word, 6 quarts at the beginning plus 2 quarts of makeup oils. Let me know if you want me to do a pie chart.


Jeez, dude, calm down. So many angry people on the interwebs.

It's obviously an honest mistake if more than one of us read it the same way. Also, since you're being a bit of a jerk, I'll return the favor. The phrase is, "in other words." What could, "another word" possibly mean?
_________________________
14 Forester XT
Rotella T6 + Subie blue filter
08 Civic LX (Auto)
VWB 5W-20 + Fram Ultra Guard filter

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#2863676 - 01/09/13 12:49 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
What could, "another word" possibly mean?



If you have to ask then you couldn't possibly understand it.


Edited by Kestas (01/09/13 11:45 AM)
Edit Reason: rude language

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#2863686 - 01/09/13 01:17 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
JHZR2, I got on your soap box because I expected more from you as a mod. Nothing personal, sorry bro.

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#2863717 - 01/09/13 04:31 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5537
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
And when I said "total" that means everything is included does it not?


No - not really. Not to us BITOG folks. Because your full statement was not "total oil installed" but "total oil used". So this becomes a matter of what convention we BITOGers apply to the word "used".

I understand what you're saying in regard to the total oil installed, but I think what you're missing is that most BITOGers understand the term "used" to mean "consumed in addition after initial fill" or as "top off".

Perhaps it's not the way you speak of it, and understand it, but just about all the rest of us use the term "used" in a convention of "added after fill" and not as "part of the total load of initial fill plus sustaining top off".

In the future you could state it this way:
Initial quantity of lube installed at OCI fill: X.x qrts
Additional supplemental lube installed after initial fill to sustain adequate sump lube level: Y.y qrts
Total lube put into the engine for entire OCI: Z.z qrts


Of course, the rest of us will continue to employ the word "used" to mean top-off.


Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
JHZR2, I got on your soap box because I expected more from you as a mod. Nothing personal, sorry bro.


His status as a moderator has nothing to do with his comments; he was trying to decipher the lube added based upon your implication of "used", and then calculate the percentages. I, too, thought you had "added" (used) 8 qts after initial fill.

Just saying ... from another mod, "bro".


Edited by dnewton3 (01/09/13 04:46 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#2863918 - 01/09/13 09:16 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
The "total oil used" is the correct term since we are dealing with UOA which by definition is "USED OIL" ANALYSIS. The UOA is not for top-off or makeup oil or originally fill only, it is for all the oil used. The UOA does not differentiate and it is the result of the "total oil used". Any oil added to the engine will become used oil, period.

What BITOG users assumed, misread, misunderstood, etc. are not my problems. I will always used the correct terms as defined by the process.


Edited by azsynthetic (01/09/13 09:22 AM)

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#2863940 - 01/09/13 09:32 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
What could, "another word" possibly mean?



If you have to ask then you couldn't possibly understand it. Jerk away.


I'm not sure why I'm bothering, but "another word" is not a real phrase, and is kind of like, "I could care less." The meaning is understood by all, but it's annoyingly incorrect. I keep my criticisms to myself, except in cases where some one is being a true butt head.

See my last post for the correct one, "in other words." "In other words," is used when some one is trying to reiterate or elaborate what they've previously written, in other words.

You expect more from a mod? Your statement was confusing and he made a comment. I don't get it.
_________________________
14 Forester XT
Rotella T6 + Subie blue filter
08 Civic LX (Auto)
VWB 5W-20 + Fram Ultra Guard filter

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#2863949 - 01/09/13 09:40 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

You expect more from a mod? Your statement was confusing and he made a comment. I don't get it.


and you never will get it so move along if you can't stay on topic. Post something related to this UOA or step off.

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#2863982 - 01/09/13 09:54 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Ha.
We really do split hairs on everything here,don't we.
So the lead is high but to be expected with such a thin oil and how you drive it. How much longer do we think it will last before the bearings have finally had it?
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#2864037 - 01/09/13 10:34 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Brule Offline


Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 421
Loc: St. Louis, Mo
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic

My mileage went from annual average of 44mpg (48 max) when new to 57mpg (62 max) now with all the mods and the low viscosity oil.


What other mods have you done? How much of the mpg improvement do you attribute to oil viscosity?
_________________________
2014 Camry V6 SE (QSUD 5w20)
2003 Civic Si [sold]
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#2864039 - 01/09/13 10:34 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

You expect more from a mod? Your statement was confusing and he made a comment. I don't get it.


and you never will get it so move along if you can't stay on topic. Post something related to this UOA or step off.




Oh, I get it, alright. crackmeup

As requested, I'll make sure my posts stay on-topic from here on out:

Based on the 100C KV, that oil is a 20W, with the 0W-5 stamped on there to make you think it's a super thin racing oil. It's not even a light 20W, either.


Edited by gathermewool (01/09/13 10:35 AM)
_________________________
14 Forester XT
Rotella T6 + Subie blue filter
08 Civic LX (Auto)
VWB 5W-20 + Fram Ultra Guard filter

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#2864058 - 01/09/13 10:48 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
MinamiKotaro Online   content


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 573
Loc: TN
I was going to post in the OP's defense but this thread is devolving into trolling over semantics enough as it is.


Edited by MinamiKotaro (01/09/13 10:49 AM)
_________________________
1967 VW Beetle: Mag1 5-40 Fleet/NAPA 41516
2004 Saturn Ion: T6/PYB frankenbrew/Wix 57082xp
2014 Polaris Ranger 570: QSUD 5-50/Wix 51356

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#2864063 - 01/09/13 10:55 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

You expect more from a mod? Your statement was confusing and he made a comment. I don't get it.


and you never will get it so move along if you can't stay on topic. Post something related to this UOA or step off.


Really? So is it a straight grade 20 or how exactly should it be labelled


Oh, I get it, alright. crackmeup

As requested, I'll make sure my posts stay on-topic from here on out:

Based on the 100C KV, that oil is a 20W, with the 0W-5 stamped on there to make you think it's a super thin racing oil. It's not even a light 20W, either.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#2864077 - 01/09/13 11:07 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Clevy]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
I apologize for jumping in and stoking the fire. I have a bad habit of poking bears; only in jest, mind you, though I'm sure on the interwebs it appears more maliciously troll-like.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

You expect more from a mod? Your statement was confusing and he made a comment. I don't get it.


and you never will get it so move along if you can't stay on topic. Post something related to this UOA or step off.


Really? So is it a straight grade 20 or how exactly should it be labelled


Oh, I get it, alright. crackmeup

As requested, I'll make sure my posts stay on-topic from here on out:

Based on the 100C KV, that oil is a 20W, with the 0W-5 stamped on there to make you think it's a super thin racing oil. It's not even a light 20W, either.


Looks like you accidentally posted within the quote -- I do that all the time, by accident! haha.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was a straight 20W, but that the numbers posted indicate it is an XW-20. The oil thickened from a virgin viscosity of 7.4 cSt @ 100C to 8.2 cSt @ 100C, which is consistent with an XW-20, not an XW-5.
_________________________
14 Forester XT
Rotella T6 + Subie blue filter
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VWB 5W-20 + Fram Ultra Guard filter

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#2864282 - 01/09/13 01:09 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
So the oil thickening,is due to evaporation,or how does it get thicker?
Thanks
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#2864290 - 01/09/13 01:14 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Clevy]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25647
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Clevy
So the oil thickening,is due to evaporation,or how does it get thicker?
Thanks


The oil may not be an xw-5 to begin with, I don't think the grade officially exists.

That being said, oxidation thickens an oil.
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#2864301 - 01/09/13 01:21 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
NateDN10 Offline


Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 1373
Loc: Rochester, NY
Do you know what the virgin specs are of this oil? Like previous posters have said, based on the 100C viscosity, this is an xW-20 oil.

Also, I can't find it listed on Neo's web site.
_________________________
2005 Chevrolet Cobalt - 85,000 mi.
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#2864432 - 01/09/13 03:41 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Clevy]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Ha.
We really do split hairs on everything here,don't we.
So the lead is high but to be expected with such a thin oil and how you drive it. How much longer do we think it will last before the bearings have finally had it?


Lead is less than 1ppm per 1K miles so the bearing should last me another 300K miles at least.

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#2864439 - 01/09/13 03:51 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Brule]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic

My mileage went from annual average of 44mpg (48 max) when new to 57mpg (62 max) now with all the mods and the low viscosity oil.


What other mods have you done? How much of the mpg improvement do you attribute to oil viscosity?


You can see some of the mods in the engine pic. OMI intake, EGR deletion, DG race pipe, PCV vent to atmosphere, 3" straight exhaust, Aiken fuel box, advance injection timing, 205/70-15 tires, 2T fuel mix, and low viscosity oils. The low oil viscosity is good for 3-5mpg.

The Amsoil bypass filter took care of the soot and allows me to run non diesel oil.


Edited by azsynthetic (01/09/13 03:54 PM)

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#2864448 - 01/09/13 03:57 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1026
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
The "total oil used" is the correct term since we are dealing with UOA which by definition is "USED OIL" ANALYSIS. The UOA is not for top-off or makeup oil or originally fill only, it is for all the oil used. The UOA does not differentiate and it is the result of the "total oil used". Any oil added to the engine will become used oil, period.

What BITOG users assumed, misread, misunderstood, etc. are not my problems. I will always used the correct terms as defined by the process.

Maybe in the future just state "6 quarts intial fill and two quarts makeup". wink
What are you oil pressures wtih this viscoity? I asked this question once before.


Edited by 3311 (01/09/13 03:57 PM)
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#2864456 - 01/09/13 04:01 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: 3311]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: 3311

What are you oil pressures wtih this viscoity? I asked this question once before.


Engine ran fine in Arizona heat with no problem even when it was overheated. As long as I don't get a warning from the ECU I don't really care. I might thin it out even more with ZMAX in the near future.

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#2864466 - 01/09/13 04:08 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1026
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: 3311

What are you oil pressures wtih this viscoity? I asked this question once before.


Engine ran fine in Arizona heat with no problem even when it was overheated. As long as I don't get a warning from the ECU I don't really care. I might thin it out even more with ZMAX in the near future.
Well since you don't care about the pressure, I will not either.
IMO, and I'm certainly not an expert, those are pretty high numbers considering you running a bypass system. I sincerly wish you luck though getting another 300k out of this engine.
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#2864648 - 01/09/13 06:21 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: Clevy
So the oil thickening,is due to evaporation,or how does it get thicker?
Thanks


Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Clevy
So the oil thickening,is due to evaporation,or how does it get thicker?
Thanks


The oil may not be an xw-5 to begin with, I don't think the grade officially exists.

That being said, oxidation thickens an oil.


Based on the VOA/UOA #s, we know this oil didn't begin as an XW-5 - it's definitely on the thicker side of an XW-20.

The higher UOA KV @ 100C could be the result of oxidative thickening; however, the oxidation between virgin and used is very low, so another explanation could simply be inconsistencies between each bottle of oil. IN OTHER WORDS, the bottle of oil that the virgin sample was drawn from might have been thinner than than the average of all the bottles of oil added throughout this OCI. Just a thought.

Also, you're spending a lot of money on this oil - doesn't need any help (RE: ZMAX.) IMO, buy an oil suitable for the task at hand and let it do its job, by itself - no need for additives that may not play well with the oil's chemistry.


Edited by gathermewool (01/09/13 06:33 PM)
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#2864658 - 01/09/13 06:32 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9696
Loc: Illinois
I ask this once. Does this oil have the CL rating? If not what diesel rating does it have? Thanks.
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#2864877 - 01/09/13 09:23 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

Also, you're spending a lot of money on this oil - doesn't need any help (RE: ZMAX.) IMO, buy an oil suitable for the task at hand and let it do its job, by itself - no need for additives that may not play well with the oil's chemistry.


Why do you even read this thread if this is what you believe in?

Why do I run 0w5 when practically any 5w40 will do? You just don't get it.

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#2864878 - 01/09/13 09:24 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: tig1]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: tig1
I ask this once. Does this oil have the CL rating? If not what diesel rating does it have? Thanks.


API Service SJ/SH, ILSAC GF - 1 / GF - 2

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#2864892 - 01/09/13 09:45 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: gathermewool

Also, you're spending a lot of money on this oil - doesn't need any help (RE: ZMAX.) IMO, buy an oil suitable for the task at hand and let it do its job, by itself - no need for additives that may not play well with the oil's chemistry.


Why do you even read this thread if this is what you believe in?

Why do I run 0w5 when practically any 5w40 will do? You just don't get it.


Could you please explain what it is that I don't get? You've said that a couple of times thus far, but it makes less sense each time you type it, since you never explain your logic.

I'll say again that YOU'RE NOT RUNNING A 0W-5 OIL - your oil is an XW-20. Furthermore, no where did I say that you should run a thicker oil, either, so apparently you don't get it. It's ok if you don't understand something, but being combative to those on this forum trying help you is counter-productive. So, to answer your question: I'm reading and responding in this thread in reply to others mostly, not you, since you don't seem receptive to any advice or feedback.

Finally, I was simply giving you my opinion that a good, stout oil does not need the help of any additive, and that not only can some additives be a waste of money, but they can hamper the additive package of the high-dollar oil you're using. What's not to get?

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: tig1
I ask this once. Does this oil have the CL rating? If not what diesel rating does it have? Thanks.


API Service SJ/SH, ILSAC GF - 1 / GF - 2


Those specs are worth less than the label they're printed on, broseph.


Edited by gathermewool (01/09/13 09:49 PM)
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#2864902 - 01/09/13 10:04 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
spasm3 Offline


Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 3412
Loc: north carolina
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I will always used the correct terms as defined by the process.


LOL, something funny about that statement!
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#2864916 - 01/09/13 10:29 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Ha.
We really do split hairs on everything here,don't we.
So the lead is high but to be expected with such a thin oil and how you drive it. How much longer do we think it will last before the bearings have finally had it?


Lead is less than 1ppm per 1K miles so the bearing should last me another 300K miles at least.


That's awesome. I admire you going a couple grades thinner and using your own vehicle as the test mule.
Do you know what the averages are with this engine using the vw spec grade oil. I doubt they could be all that much better?
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#2864935 - 01/09/13 10:49 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Clevy]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Do you know what the averages are with this engine using the vw spec grade oil. I doubt they could be all that much better?


Over in the TDI Club forum they have a thread listing UOAs. Many are worst than mine and at 10K miles or less.

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#2864943 - 01/09/13 10:55 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
What's not to get?



Why I run NEO 0w5 and ZMAX? Still clueless?

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#2864970 - 01/09/13 11:48 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
What's not to get?



Why I run NEO 0w5 and ZMAX? Still clueless?




You can't quote partial statements, out of context duh

Ok, so maybe we need to break this down into parts:

1. NEO 0W-5: This oil, based on the viscosity is an XW-20. Agreed or is there a question about this still? I have no opinion for or against this weight being used in your application. Still clear? Ok, so no questions on that one, right, and you understand that my only posts pertaining to this oil are to clarify its true specification?

I've given facts, not opinions, so what's your point of contention here? Again, to reiterate (maybe this will help; probably not): I don't care what weight oil you use. I'm interpreting the actual data and simply posted the oil's corresponding viscosity - no opinions involves, so clue or clueless, it matters not.

2. ZMAX: Why do you think you need to run this? If you use Oil A, and Oil A does not meet your standard (be it personal or manufacturer-driven,) then a better oil is in order. At no time should an additive replace using a better oil.

You also claim that you want to thin out your "OW-5 oil." If you want to go thinner, then how about you start by choosing a thinner oil, for criminy's sake! This NEO oil (regardless of how much residual RL is still in there) does not appear to be a thin oil, let alone a 5W at 100C.

So, I dare you to respond meaningfully, instead of calling me clueless. The head of our nuclear training department once told me, "if you can't describe what you know to a dumb Idaho farm boy like myself, then you don't really know what you're talking about." So, if I'm clueless, then give me a clue. Otherwise, concede that you're simply doing what you want without any real reason for it.

I mean, Jesu Christo, your interpretation of being good to go is stating that the ECU hasn't bricked itself. You don't seem to have any idea how your mods are affecting your tune, nor whether the oil you're using is providing adequate pressure. Your engine may last another 300k, but it for darned sure won't be thanks to you!


Edited by gathermewool (01/09/13 11:48 PM)
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#2864983 - 01/10/13 12:30 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
I run them because I was looking for maximum fuel economy and not maximum engine protection. You jumped into the middle of my experiment and start to troll about a better oil not needing additives with no clue about the history of my car and how I maintain it. You are not the first and will not be the last.

Here is a clue: read the link in the first post and get some background on my car and ZMAX. Here is another clue: check the UOA archive for previous UOAs of this car and see how low the wear numbers were using a thicker oils.

Bottom line: maximum fuel economy with acceptable engine wear. If the wear numbers for the NEO were double I would still use it because of the return on fuel economy. There isn't another advertised thinner street legal oil or I would have used it.


Edited by azsynthetic (01/10/13 12:35 AM)

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#2864993 - 01/10/13 01:30 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I run them because I was looking for maximum fuel economy and not maximum engine protection. You jumped into the middle of my experiment and start to troll about a better oil not needing additives with no clue about the history of my car and how I maintain it. You are not the first and will not be the last.

Here is a clue: read the link in the first post and get some background on my car and ZMAX. Here is another clue: check the UOA archive for previous UOAs of this car and see how low the wear numbers were using a thicker oils.

Bottom line: maximum fuel economy with acceptable engine wear. If the wear numbers for the NEO were double I would still use it because of the return on fuel economy. There isn't another advertised thinner street legal oil or I would have used it.


Jesus, dude, I didn't mention anything about using a different oil. I also haven't mentioned a single thing about wear. Based on your comments, it appears as if you're either seriously misreading my posts or erroneously combining my comments with some one else's. I commented about the oil not being a 5W (because it's not,) and that additives are mostly a waste of money. I'm still not sure where you're getting the idea that I've got anything against your choice of oil, since I haven't made a single critical post of the oil itself, nor any of the spectro numbers in your analysis.

You seriously need to re-read what I've posted and look up the definition of "troll."

Bottom line: ZMAX is not needed with a good oil. If your goal is fuel economy, and your thinking is that ZMAX will provide any return on investment, then it is my opinion that you are sorely mistaken. You still haven't answered the question of how much you pay for the NEO, so I'm going to say that either 1. It's an expensive oil that should do well enough on its own, or 2. you'd be better served by using something available off-the-shelf, such as M1 AFE 0W-20. I'll repeat that what you're running now is not much thinner than M1 AFE 0W-20, which has a KV @ 100C of 8.5 cSt (compared to your VOA of 7.4.) So, unless you're getting the NEO for a steal, the ROI isn't really there (again, posting how much you're paying for an oil change would help.) See, now I'm mentioning the possibility of using another oil. It's what's known as a suggestion, not a demand.



Edited by gathermewool (01/10/13 01:33 AM)
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#2865019 - 01/10/13 03:42 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
If your goal is fuel economy, and your thinking is that ZMAX will provide any return on investment, then it is my opinion that you are sorely mistaken.



And you are wrong again. ZMAX has given me better fuel economy with the 5w20 and that is the fact. I will soon find out if it will do the same with the NEO while you are still playing the guessing game. You would not have known what the viscosity of the NEO is if it was not for my VOA which was posted a year and a half ago.

I paid around $30 per gallon of NEO 0w5 several years ago. I got the ZMAX through my airport FOB (Avblend) business for less than $15/quart.

I don't need your pointless suggestion since you have no experience in these matters nor do you understand what I am doing. I have facts and you have nothing.

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#2865030 - 01/10/13 04:51 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14229
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic

I don't need your pointless suggestion since you have no experience in these matters nor do you understand what I am doing. I have facts and you have nothing.


You will hear tons of useless blather about your additive choices even when the person offering it has NEVER used the product.

Good luck!
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#2865032 - 01/10/13 05:09 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
I am hoping/wishing that the LiquiMoly dude from Germany does not jump in with his good snake oil and bad snake oil routine again.

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#2865045 - 01/10/13 05:55 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I am hoping/wishing that the LiquiMoly dude from Germany does not jump in with his good snake oil and bad snake oil routine again.


Hehehe. He has a gift. Talking from both sides of mouth at same time.
Back to topic. What made you decide on this particular oil. Since we've now learned it basically a 20 grade are there more stout 20 out there that can achieve your fuel economy mandate?
Have you tried the MOS2 additive from liqui-moly. Every engine I've put it in got better mileage,maybe it can help you.
Or maybe one of those polymer type additives?
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#2865068 - 01/10/13 06:24 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Thought it was a real 5WT oil when I purchased them. It is still the thinnest street legal racing oil that I can find. I do have a stash of Royal Purple XPR10 that I might try when the NEO stash is low.

Since the TBN is still over 5 after 25K miles, I was thinking about adding Red Line 5WT racing oil to the current run to add some moly and at the same time lower the viscosity. If I stretch the OCI to 35-40K miles then I might not add anything else except maybe ZMAX.

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#2865165 - 01/10/13 08:39 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
NateDN10 Offline


Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 1373
Loc: Rochester, NY
I applaud you for this experiment and am interested in seeing how far your engine will go with this regime. At 275k miles, your engine has already seen a pretty long life.

I also want to add that not all of us have read all of your previous posts, and maybe in the future you could refer us to those for background. Attacking people who don't know about your experiment isn't helpful to anyone. Just sayin'.
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#2865221 - 01/10/13 09:21 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: NateDN10]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: NateDN10

I also want to add that not all of us have read all of your previous posts, and maybe in the future you could refer us to those for background. Attacking people who don't know about your experiment isn't helpful to anyone. Just sayin'.


Then why don't they start with the link I have provided in the first post instead of trolling as an expert with no clue as to what I am trying to do? All the info are there, they just have to read it before they opine.

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#2865323 - 01/10/13 10:52 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: NateDN10

I also want to add that not all of us have read all of your previous posts, and maybe in the future you could refer us to those for background. Attacking people who don't know about your experiment isn't helpful to anyone. Just sayin'.


Then why don't they start with the link I have provided in the first post instead of trolling as an expert with no clue as to what I am trying to do? All the info are there, they just have to read it before they opine.


I did, and everything other knowledgeable members suggested or explained, some have tried to do again in this thread. They explained that the NEO 0W-5 is really a 20W. I looked at the numbers, compared it to a viscosity chart, and agree that it is indeed (both virgin sample and used sample) a 20W oil. This does NOT take an expert or self-proclaimed expert to decipher.

Another poster commented about modifications and oil weight with respect to oil pressure and bearing wear. You effectively disregarded that statement, and think that because your CEL isn't flashing at you that everything is good to go. As I previously stated, your engine MAY go another 300k miles, but your diligence in monitoring the health of your motor won't be why. I find it seriously odd that you've performed so many mods, and gone to such lengths to keep your oil clean over such a long interval, but don't think something like oil pressure or temperature is a relevant parameter to monitor.

If you'll also notice, most of those who posted in your last thread have stayed clear of this one. Instead of having a meaningful conversation, you'd rather Fox news it up, with vague retorts and rebuttals that don't make any sense, explaining that I don't get some sort of concept that isn't there to be got.

If you want to run your engine to the limit and back, that's your prerogative. However, members of this forum have pleaded a case for prudence. As with any other forum, we've given our humble opinion, with no claim of expertise in the field, in hopes of opening a dialogue. This is our hobby here at BITOG, as you well know, and we like to have conversation about the things we do. It seems as if you'd rather talk at us without any constructive feedback or opinions you don't agree with. Well, tough nuggets; this is the interwebs, and opinions are aplenty!

In conclusion, I'm going to say again that I have nothing against you experimenting, and think it's neat what you're doing. I'm honestly not sure how my comments got spun from factual, unbiased data about the oil itself as well as my opinion (which I stated it as) that I would keep it simple instead of using ZMAX, to some know-it-all interweb troll telling you how to do your bidness.

I hope that you see this for what it is, a silly internet argument, and don't take it as a personal affront. There is no anger in my posts, though I know it's easy to project an emotion onto typed statements and words.




Edited by gathermewool (01/10/13 10:57 AM)
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#2865336 - 01/10/13 11:02 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25647
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
If your goal is fuel economy, and your thinking is that ZMAX will provide any return on investment, then it is my opinion that you are sorely mistaken.



And you are wrong again. ZMAX has given me better fuel economy with the 5w20 and that is the fact. I will soon find out if it will do the same with the NEO while you are still playing the guessing game. You would not have known what the viscosity of the NEO is if it was not for my VOA which was posted a year and a half ago.

I paid around $30 per gallon of NEO 0w5 several years ago. I got the ZMAX through my airport FOB (Avblend) business for less than $15/quart.

I don't need your pointless suggestion since you have no experience in these matters nor do you understand what I am doing. I have facts and you have nothing.


You have a chip on your shoulder and a bad attitude. If you don't want to discuss your experiment, I'd highly suggest not posting about it in a discussion forum. Food for thought.

Gathermewool has been nothing but polite. He is inquisitive, but instead of answering his questions, you've chosen to attack him. I honestly don't understand your aggression toward him, he has done nothing to slight you from what I have observed.
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#2865342 - 01/10/13 11:09 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: OVERKILL]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Gathermewool has been nothing but polite. He is inquisitive, but instead of answering his questions, you've chosen to attack him. I honestly don't understand your aggression toward him, he has done nothing to slight you from what I have observed.


You forgot that he called me a jerk. Then proceed to tell me the correct use of English which has nothing to do with the UOA in his first post while having no clue of what I am doing. So yeah, I ignored his worthless opinion from then on.


Edited by azsynthetic (01/10/13 11:14 AM)

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#2865348 - 01/10/13 11:18 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Gathermewool has been nothing but polite. He is inquisitive, but instead of answering his questions, you've chosen to attack him. I honestly don't understand your aggression toward him, he has done nothing to slight you from what I have observed.


You forgot that he called me a jerk. Then proceed to tell me the correct use of English which has nothing to do with the UOA in his first post while having no clue of what I am doing. So yeah, I ignored his worthless opinion from then on.


You have a point. I was trying to be silly, but it came off as crass or worse.
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#2865353 - 01/10/13 11:22 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
OVERKILL Online   content


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 25647
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Gathermewool has been nothing but polite. He is inquisitive, but instead of answering his questions, you've chosen to attack him. I honestly don't understand your aggression toward him, he has done nothing to slight you from what I have observed.


You forgot that he called me a jerk. Then proceed to tell me the correct use of English which has nothing to do with the UOA in his first post while having no clue of what I am doing. So yeah, I ignored his worthless opinion from then on.


Well, he called you a jerk because you appeared to be acting as one toward JHZR2. I am quite sure I am not the only one who observed that, as Dnewton chimed in as well.

That seems to be what precipitated this whole mess, but I do believe that your initial attitude with respect to how others interpreted your use of the term "used" is the root of everything that has transpired here. People didn't take your use of the word as meaning as a whole, but rather as consumption. You took exception to that and took to task those who questioned you about it. Things went downhill from there.
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#2865358 - 01/10/13 11:27 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

That seems to be what precipitated this whole mess, but I do believe that your initial attitude with respect to how others interpreted your use of the term "used" is the root of everything that has transpired here. People didn't take your use of the word as meaning as a whole, but rather as consumption. You took exception to that and took to task those who questioned you about it. Things went downhill from there.


Actually, things went up hill for JHZR2. See post #2863686.

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#2865423 - 01/10/13 12:43 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1026
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Do you know what the averages are with this engine using the vw spec grade oil. I doubt they could be all that much better?


Over in the TDI Club forum they have a thread listing UOAs. Many are worst than mine and at 10K miles or less.
Are there any UOA's of similar vehicles running bypass systems like you?


Edited by 3311 (01/10/13 12:44 PM)
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04 2500hd 6.0 258k(: Delo 15w40mix XG3675 VML ATF,PGL
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#2865464 - 01/10/13 01:25 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: 3311]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: 3311
Are there any UOA's of similar vehicles running bypass systems like you?


Yes, but be prepared for extended reading session.

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#2865470 - 01/10/13 01:30 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1026
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: 3311
Are there any UOA's of similar vehicles running bypass systems like you?


Yes, but be prepared for extended reading session.
Just the Cliff's notes version please.:) How do those bypass applications compare to yours with regard to wear?
_________________________
04 2500hd 6.0 258k(: Delo 15w40mix XG3675 VML ATF,PGL
03 C7500 Dmax7.8l 128k Delo 15w40,M1ATF,Dexcool
06 2500hd 6.0 181k T5 10w30 PL25288 ST DexVI,PGL

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#2865499 - 01/10/13 01:52 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
The bypass application is always better than non-bypass, but to compare two different vehicles with bypasses with different driving history is iffy at best.

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#2865593 - 01/10/13 02:59 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1026
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
The bypass application is always better than non-bypass, but to compare two different vehicles with bypasses with different driving history is iffy at best.
Then that pretty much excludes the huge data base at the tdi club site.

The point of my questions is that if you are at an average wear rate(~1ppm per 1k miles) with a bypass setup, a wear others are seeing without the bypass setup, then a your are experiencing greatly accelerated wear because of your lube choice and the bypass system is masking it IMO. Or youe bypass set up is ineffective.
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04 2500hd 6.0 258k(: Delo 15w40mix XG3675 VML ATF,PGL
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06 2500hd 6.0 181k T5 10w30 PL25288 ST DexVI,PGL

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#2865654 - 01/10/13 04:10 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
The bypass application is always better than non-bypass, but to compare two different vehicles with bypasses with different driving history is iffy at best.


Unfortunately, I can't search easily from my phone, but was curious about your bypass setup. Did you install it yourself, and if so, how complicated was the install? Do you have any pics or a link to your DIY?
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#2865751 - 01/10/13 05:29 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: 3311]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: 3311

The point of my questions is that if you are at an average wear rate(~1ppm per 1k miles) with a bypass setup, a wear others are seeing without the bypass setup, then a your are experiencing greatly accelerated wear because of your lube choice and the bypass system is masking it IMO. Or youe bypass set up is ineffective.


None of the UOAs here or on the TDI site are controlled nor configuration managed so any comparison is anecdotal at best. Even the bypass system itself might not be the same nor similarly installed. My current overall wear rates per 1K miles are better than most if not almost all non-bypass UOAs, and I am not even using VW approved oils. I have even better UOA results when using thicker oil. Here is one example:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1247741#Post1247741

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#2865915 - 01/10/13 07:55 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1026
Loc: Fl
I only brought up the TDI site becuse you use it as a point of reference a page or two back.
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03 C7500 Dmax7.8l 128k Delo 15w40,M1ATF,Dexcool
06 2500hd 6.0 181k T5 10w30 PL25288 ST DexVI,PGL

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#2866174 - 01/11/13 01:24 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: MBS500]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
Originally Posted By: MBS500
So the turbo diesel that calls for heavy 30 oil or 40 oils, runs great on 0w5 non diesel rated oil?
Hmm, I guess I could dump 5w20 VVB in my MB? smile


Every engine type, main block condition, useage, driver style et al result in a different response to oil grade changes. In very general terms if an engine is in good condition (Not used in heavy traffic areas etc), driven gently with top quality oil filtration, using light oils does not seem to make a big difference, BUT it sure does if you push an engine hard, so the Germans often use higher grades as a result. The oil consumption is also a factor, but that does depend on oil type in addition to grade and the effects of leaks etc. The OCI for light oils like a dinoblend 5/20 has to be shorter than that for either a top quality full synthetic 0/20 or 5/30 for most engines, so if you do want to use a 20 grade, don't go cheap unless you reduce the OCI.
The oil has a very interesting VOA, as I've not seen Lead used as an additive before, so I wonder what that is doing in terms of lining the cylinder walls or something. I presume this VW has no high tech CAT to foul, because it might be acting in the same way as the high level of Zinc in some race oils for direct tuned exhaust systems.
The fuel contamination is getting interesting although it's difficult to figure if that is an injection system issue or main block wear.


Edited by skyship (01/11/13 01:30 AM)

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#2866178 - 01/11/13 02:13 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
crashtestdummy Offline


Registered: 08/20/12
Posts: 52
Loc: CA
Thank you very much for posting the information!

Please keep us updated.


Edited by crashtestdummy (01/11/13 02:13 AM)
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#2866209 - 01/11/13 04:51 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
fpracha Offline


Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 473
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
From past experiences, I no longer drive during dust storm and I went back to VW airfilters instead of FRAM.

Great results and gives a confidence boost as well to you!

Please inform more about the VW air filters and which website/shop you purchase these from ?

thanks!

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#2866492 - 01/11/13 11:13 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
One point worth considering for those testing engines or systems is the insurance situation. I know several VW TDI owners who are in the ultra high mileage camp and using very light oils plus some weird additives and bio diesel or cooking oil. Those VW chaps keep a very low public profile on Facebook and in the VW forums for legal reasons, because most countries don't like tests to be done on public roads. In insurance terms the risk factor is from some rubber necker or following car getting involved in an accident that they manage to claim was partly caused by smoke or the test car suddenly stopping. That can result in two different possible legal situations developing, firstly one of the following car owners might just try a direct legal action against the owner or driver of the test vehicle, OR their insurance company might make a claim. It can also be your own insurance company that causes a problem if you were found liable, because a lot of countries allow insurance companies to take legal action against policy holders under the gross negligence or illegal operation clauses that invalidate most types of insurance. Negligence in insurance terms is defined as a pre meditated act, not bad driving and illegal operation can be defined as drug smuggling or over weight towing in some cases.
If you are not worth much there is nothing to be concerned about, BUT if you are then invalidating an insurance policy and providing evidence to that effect is not such a good idea. Oddly enough the reaction of the Police is critical, because it is highly unlikely that an insurance company or private person will take legal action unless the person responsible for the test has been found guilty of a related offence.
One way to avoid invalidating your insurance policy as a result of testing is to write to your broker and explain what you are doing, if he then issues a letter saying the activity is included or acceptable, then all is well. In many cases they will increase the premium, but it is worth the extra if you are rich enough to be a potential target.
If the Police get upset by the results of vehicle tests, they can use some fairly odd laws to indicate their displeasure and the easy one they can use when faced with racing or testing, is disorderly conduct likely to endanger public safety. That law carries a much heavier potential fine than littering the highway or causing air pollution.


Edited by skyship (01/11/13 11:15 AM)

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#2866556 - 01/11/13 11:56 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
The bypass application is always better than non-bypass, but to compare two different vehicles with bypasses with different driving history is iffy at best.


Unfortunately, I can't search easily from my phone, but was curious about your bypass setup. Did you install it yourself, and if so, how complicated was the install? Do you have any pics or a link to your DIY?


It's a pity we can't see results from the light oil use without a bypass filter in use, as I suspect it will make a big difference in terms of engine protection. Mixing oil in the fuel is also interesting.
It would be good to see what the new oil could do on its own without extra oil in the fuel and bypass filtration. The German VW chaps were using a straight 10 grade, but had no bypass filter and just an anti ice additive in the fuel. Their speed for the test was 100 kmph, which is the same as the trucks, as going any slower could cause an issue with the Police on the autobahn and is about right for the TDI in fuel economy terms.

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#2867269 - 01/11/13 09:00 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: skyship]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3432
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
The bypass application is always better than non-bypass, but to compare two different vehicles with bypasses with different driving history is iffy at best.


Unfortunately, I can't search easily from my phone, but was curious about your bypass setup. Did you install it yourself, and if so, how complicated was the install? Do you have any pics or a link to your DIY?


It's a pity we can't see results from the light oil use without a bypass filter in use, as I suspect it will make a big difference in terms of engine protection. Mixing oil in the fuel is also interesting.
It would be good to see what the new oil could do on its own without extra oil in the fuel and bypass filtration. The German VW chaps were using a straight 10 grade, but had no bypass filter and just an anti ice additive in the fuel. Their speed for the test was 100 kmph, which is the same as the trucks, as going any slower could cause an issue with the Police on the autobahn and is about right for the TDI in fuel economy terms.


I agree, which is why I think monitoring oil temperature/pressure is very important.

The German VW "chaps," do you know the viscosity of the oil they were using in cSt? I wonder if maybe their 10W was thicker than advertised, too.

I've actually been meaning to join or at least lurk around on the tdi forums. It seems like they have such a neat community with a lot of knowledgeable people. I'd love to pick up a high mileage (by most people's standards, not the TDI crowd :P ) and play around with it. I don't see many in the hobby shop, but one guy came in a few years ago and I just stood by when I was finished with my project and shot the breeze with him for maybe an hour. If I knew much about his Jetta TDI it might have been longer, but I didn't, so it was mostly him talking.
_________________________
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#2867529 - 01/12/13 05:46 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
The bypass application is always better than non-bypass, but to compare two different vehicles with bypasses with different driving history is iffy at best.


Unfortunately, I can't search easily from my phone, but was curious about your bypass setup. Did you install it yourself, and if so, how complicated was the install? Do you have any pics or a link to your DIY?


It's a pity we can't see results from the light oil use without a bypass filter in use, as I suspect it will make a big difference in terms of engine protection. Mixing oil in the fuel is also interesting.
It would be good to see what the new oil could do on its own without extra oil in the fuel and bypass filtration. The German VW chaps were using a straight 10 grade, but had no bypass filter and just an anti ice additive in the fuel. Their speed for the test was 100 kmph, which is the same as the trucks, as going any slower could cause an issue with the Police on the autobahn and is about right for the TDI in fuel economy terms.


I agree, which is why I think monitoring oil temperature/pressure is very important.

The German VW "chaps," do you know the viscosity of the oil they were using in cSt? I wonder if maybe their 10W was thicker than advertised, too.

I've actually been meaning to join or at least lurk around on the tdi forums. It seems like they have such a neat community with a lot of knowledgeable people. I'd love to pick up a high mileage (by most people's standards, not the TDI crowd :P ) and play around with it. I don't see many in the hobby shop, but one guy came in a few years ago and I just stood by when I was finished with my project and shot the breeze with him for maybe an hour. If I knew much about his Jetta TDI it might have been longer, but I didn't, so it was mostly him talking.


One of them had Castrol stickers over his VW and I presume he is using one of the Castrol formula one race oils, but no idea on which one.

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#2869945 - 01/13/13 10:59 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
addyguy Offline


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 13425
Loc: Canada
I know I am way, way late to this discussion, but folks here DO know that NEO used lead napthenate(?) as an AW additive in their oils, right?

The lead is NOT all engine wear, its a very, very old-school AW additive from the 1970's...we've seen a couple of NEO UOA/VOA's that confirm this.

If you need clarification, search for member 'spiderbypass' and the tests he did on NEO in his accord.
_________________________
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Oil: Edge SPT, PP, and Lucas syn; MPH2 filter.

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#2869946 - 01/13/13 11:01 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
addyguy Offline


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 13425
Loc: Canada
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#2872466 - 01/15/13 10:09 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Brons2 Offline


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: Austin, Texas
I think TGMO 0w20 would be even thinner.

But maybe not provide the ZDDP levels that the OP is looking for? Still, if looking for the absolute thinnest oil, maybe a consideration?
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#2879567 - 01/21/13 08:47 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14040
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
The oil has a very interesting VOA, as I've not seen Lead used as an additive before, so I wonder what that is doing in terms of lining the cylinder walls or something.


NEO has always been an interesting oil. At one time they used mostly diesters as base oils, but due to high diester costs, I doubt they use diesters exclusively now, but mix it with other oils such as PAO's and POE's.

I do know they have used a lead additive in the past such as Lead dithiocarbamate which is one of those anti-wear and anti-oxidant agents.

I too would be concerend about the lead deposits coating any cats or other after treatment devices.

The VOA of AZ's NEO does fall into the SAE 20 weight range at 7.5 cSt.

According to their current website, the lowest viscosity oil they now produce is a 5W20.

It would be interesting to see what their current 5W20 oil contains.



Edited by MolaKule (01/21/13 08:51 PM)
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#2879887 - 01/22/13 07:18 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
I think this was a fascinating experiment and have waited to see this UOA. I guess the test is going to be ongoing, so we will see more up ahead. It certainly stretches the concept of using light oils into new territory... for me anyway.

I have see numerous instances of straight 20 grade being used in diesels of the distant past for winter. You will find many Nebraska tractor tests of '50s and '60s tractors with straight 20 grade. When I look at the dates of some of the tests, they sometimes fall outside of the time period we normally call "winter" (though it is Nebraska after all) but I have sometimes wondered if the mfrs didn't run 20 grade so their engine would read higher on the hp rating (generally PTO hp) at the expense of some extra engine wear short term (the test usually ran them 20-40 hours total, though often very hard).

I can see the lower viscosity and syn base really helping with fuel economy, since it's fully two grades below the recommended, but the very low wear numbers from such a long run are a bit more puzzling on the surface to me.

I would wonder if the bypass system isn't catching some of it? I have read that filtration in the 1-2 um range can make UOA metals read lower because the filter is catching a higher percentage of those smaller particles read by the spectrograph. I don't know at what level the Amsoil bypass filters in this case, so I might be off target here, but the proof of the pudding would be to have the bypass filter contents analyzed. Or the engine torn down and wear actually measured. Still, given this engine has nearly 250K miles on it, and at least 50K of that on what are essentially 20 grade oils, the wear can't be excessive or the engine would have long since been in the scrap pile.
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#2880790 - 01/22/13 07:57 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Jim Allen]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Still, given this engine has nearly 250K miles on it, and at least 50K of that on what are essentially 20 grade oils, the wear can't be excessive or the engine would have long since been in the scrap pile.


Engine is now over 280K miles and I just added 12oz of ZMAX to the oil. It is not conclusive yet but the first tank with ZMAX got me a little over 1 mpg extra. If nothing serious happens mechanically I will run this OCI to 35K, maybe 40K. I also planned on using either Red Line 5WT or 10WT race oil as part of the makeup oil.

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#2883871 - 01/25/13 03:04 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Awesome experiment.
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#2884626 - 01/26/13 10:15 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14040
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
Engine is now over 280K miles and I just added 12oz of ZMAX to the oil. It is not conclusive yet but the first tank with ZMAX got me a little over 1 mpg extra. If nothing serious happens mechanically I will run this OCI to 35K, maybe 40K. I also planned on using either Red Line 5WT or 10WT race oil as part of the makeup oil.


You are introducing so many variables I don't see how you deduce any consistent cause and effect relationships.
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#2884676 - 01/26/13 10:53 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Cause and effect for what? I ran 25K without ZMAX and now I am running ZMAX for the next 10K, then use Red Line race oil for 10k after that, and so on and so on. All I care about is minimum fuel burn so what can't you see?

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#2885031 - 01/26/13 05:56 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14040
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
All I care about is minimum fuel burn so what can't you see?


I see your goal is minimum fuel burn, but you stated you're using a NEO 20W, then added Zmax, then you are going to top off with other brands with different additve packages and different viscosities so my question is, how can you attribute mpg increases to any one variable if you acumulate so many variables along the way?


Edited by MolaKule (01/26/13 06:01 PM)
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#2885285 - 01/27/13 02:02 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
I change one variable at a time for at least 10K miles. Any change in fuel burn should be easily calculated.

I already ran the NEO for 25K as a baseline. Now I am adding ZMAX to the oil for the next 10K. Very easy experiment to calculate fuel burn. What can't you see?

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#2885288 - 01/27/13 02:09 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: MolaKule]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
you stated you're using a NEO 20W,


I ran NEO 0w5 as stated on the product. What it is is another matter but I have never run NEO 20W.

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#2885619 - 01/27/13 11:52 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14040
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
I also planned on using either Red Line 5WT or 10WT race oil as part of the makeup oil.


By this statement you are going to run the NEO low vis with Zmax, and then topoff with Red Line 5WT or 10WT race oil due to consumption along the way?

So eventually, you will have a mix of NEO low vis, Zmax, and some Redline low vis racing oil in the UOA analysis.
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#2885995 - 01/27/13 05:06 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: MolaKule]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: MolaKule

So eventually, you will have a mix of NEO low vis, Zmax, and some Redline low vis racing oil in the UOA analysis.


Let me say it one more time, "I only care about fuel economy". The UOA is to see if I am destroying the engine, and not to reduce engine wear. I am adding ZMAX and then the Red Line oil to thin out the NEO in search for better fuel economy. The race part of the Red Line oil is to prolong any "serious" damage I might be doing to the engine since I am planning on a 35K OCI, at least.

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#2886495 - 01/28/13 05:35 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Bambam Offline


Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 747
Loc: CT
I'd save your breath Mola... Can penetrate this guys mind at all.
_________________________
07 DMAX CC 4x4
265 Goodyears
Bilstein 5100's
T-C pump rub fix
EGR Blocked
PCV rerouted
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#2886503 - 01/28/13 06:15 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Welcome to the party, are you clueless also?


Edited by azsynthetic (01/28/13 06:18 AM)

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#2886713 - 01/28/13 10:35 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
I'm confused by the viscosity of the final mix, has this been calculated to be an 0W5??

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#2886732 - 01/28/13 11:06 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Bambam Offline


Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 747
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Welcome to the party, are you clueless also?


Seeing as I don't think the same as you, I guess so.
_________________________
07 DMAX CC 4x4
265 Goodyears
Bilstein 5100's
T-C pump rub fix
EGR Blocked
PCV rerouted
efi live tuned

Student of dnewton's dino teachings

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#2887285 - 01/28/13 06:44 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Bambam]
oliveoil Offline


Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 214
Loc: snow and sun
Come on guys...give OP a break. I think this is a very cool experiment! He is only interested in MPG! I get it and love what he's doing. Don't you want him to keep us informed? Let him do his thing and just enjoy.

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#2888043 - 01/29/13 12:45 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Thermo1223 Offline


Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1659
Loc: Easton, PA
We all get that, the one thing I don't get is you want to spend as little on fuel as possible. You will however spend countless dollars on boutique racing oils & oil additives which would pretty much negate any savings at all.

You are basically spending money one way to save it in another. Just doesn't make sense and you appear to be proud of that. Again, fine & all but then jump down the throats of those that question you.

Jim Allen:

Which regards to wear if the bottom ends on TDI's can reach 400k with consumer grade lubricants on factory maintenance schedules I would think 50k of the wrong oil wouldn't injure a think especially if it is at a constant highway rpm.


Edited by Thermo1223 (01/29/13 12:49 PM)
_________________________
2004 - Jetta Wagon TDI - Gone
2009 - Subaru Forester XT - 4AT 5k OCI
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#2889365 - 01/30/13 01:33 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
We all get that, the one thing I don't get is you want to spend as little on fuel as possible. You will however spend countless dollars on boutique racing oils & oil additives which would pretty much negate any savings at all.


Which level of high school math are you at? I need to know this before I can explain to you how I save money. Here are some primers: NEO oil ($30/gallon), ZMAX ($15/quarts), 2T oil ($4/qt), full flow filter ($7 per OCI), Bypass filter ($30 every 50-60K). 25-35K OCI (OEM is 10K), diesel ($4/gallon), 57mpg instead of 44mpg. Can you do the math?

Also, this experiment will apply to my other vehicles in the near future.


Edited by azsynthetic (01/30/13 01:42 PM)

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#2889371 - 01/30/13 01:41 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Thermo1223]
scurvy Offline


Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 2261
Loc: Chicago IL USA
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Which regards to wear if the bottom ends on TDI's can reach 400k with consumer grade lubricants on factory maintenance schedules I would think 50k of the wrong oil wouldn't injure a think especially if it is at a constant highway rpm.


There are plenty of ALH engined TDIs out there still happily motoring along with 200k, 300k, 400k+ miles on stock bottom ends that were tortured at the stealership's disservice department with Syntec 5w30 during the warranty period.

TDT or T6 is far better for them, but I'll be darned if the ALH doesn't seem to care much what's in its crankcase.
_________________________
You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

2006 VW Golf TDI - M1 TDT 5w40, MoS2, HU726/2x, EaBP90
2012 Mazda 5 - M1 0W20, FL910S

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#2889950 - 01/31/13 02:22 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
REDDOG Offline


Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 949
Loc: Hermon, ME
Azsynthetic,

Very cool report, thanks for posting!
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are OCD to some degree,
that's WHY we flock to this
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#2889952 - 01/31/13 02:38 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
I like that your using a thin oil and the engine isn't dissolving. I just started to appreciate them.
I'm thankful that your posting your results.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#2889953 - 01/31/13 02:39 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
I like that your using a thin oil and the engine isn't dissolving. I just started to appreciate them.
I'm thankful that y
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#2912907 - 02/19/13 09:12 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Radiation_Joe Offline


Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 19
Loc: PA
I too appreciate the posts. A little combative at times but very interesting.

I'm also in the thin oil camp after ditching the 10W-60 grease BMW recommends for the S65 engine for a mixture of Redline 40W race and 5W-30 Street oil. First UOA came back good at 8k miles and I'm about to perform a mid cycle check at 4k on the current fill.

Keep up the good work. BTW, I'm still letting the dealer fill my wife's TDI Sportwagen. It rarely get's better than 40 mpg.

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#2995239 - 05/07/13 06:37 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
fpracha Offline


Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 473
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
We all get that, the one thing I don't get is you want to spend as little on fuel as possible. You will however spend countless dollars on boutique racing oils & oil additives which would pretty much negate any savings at all.


Which level of high school math are you at? I need to know this before I can explain to you how I save money. Here are some primers: NEO oil ($30/gallon), ZMAX ($15/quarts), 2T oil ($4/qt), full flow filter ($7 per OCI), Bypass filter ($30 every 50-60K). 25-35K OCI (OEM is 10K), diesel ($4/gallon), 57mpg instead of 44mpg. Can you do the math?

Also, this experiment will apply to my other vehicles in the near future.


+1.
way to go azsyhthetic, really thanks for your posts and experiment into uncharted territory!
pls continue your journey... smile

BTW what is your opinion on WHY this real thin oil is still in the good and engine has not failed... is it because the NEO and RL oils contain a heavy dose of the antiwear and anti oxidant additives (a few 100% higher than the regular oils) OR is it mainly because of the highly stable synthetic base stocks ?

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#2998804 - 05/10/13 11:42 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: fpracha]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: fpracha

BTW what is your opinion on WHY this real thin oil is still in the good and engine has not failed... is it because the NEO and RL oils contain a heavy dose of the antiwear and anti oxidant additives (a few 100% higher than the regular oils) OR is it mainly because of the highly stable synthetic base stocks ?


High additive levels and high quality base stocks are the keys. Both oils have proven themselves being able to handle extreme racing conditions so using them in my car is just a walk in the park.

I am 12K miles into a 35K OCI of this oil and RL blend. So far mileage is up and nothing unusual that I can detect. Best mileage so far is 64mpg for several tanks. Probably early next year before I can get an UOA.

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#2999124 - 05/11/13 12:03 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Swissdieselfan Offline


Registered: 05/11/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Romanshorn, Switzerland
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: fpracha

BTW what is your opinion on WHY this real thin oil is still in the good and engine has not failed... is it because the NEO and RL oils contain a heavy dose of the antiwear and anti oxidant additives (a few 100% higher than the regular oils) OR is it mainly because of the highly stable synthetic base stocks ?


High additive levels and high quality base stocks are the keys. Both oils have proven themselves being able to handle extreme racing conditions so using them in my car is just a walk in the park.


Interesting experiment, although the park might be a better place to be if you didn't use an oil that contains Lead.

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#2999682 - 05/12/13 06:25 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
I recommend that you go to the park and leave this thread alone. Your opinion is worthless to me.

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#2999883 - 05/12/13 12:39 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Swissdieselfan]
Swissdieselfan Offline


Registered: 05/11/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Romanshorn, Switzerland
Effects of lead on Bitogers!

NEO 0w5:
UOA.....VOA
Iron................31.........1
Chromium.........0..........0
Nickle..............0..........0
Aluminum.........6..........1
Copper.............4.........1
Lead...............103.......89



Edited by Swissdieselfan (05/12/13 12:52 PM)

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#2999893 - 05/12/13 12:49 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I recommend that you go to the park and leave this thread alone. Your opinion is worthless to me.


Hehehe. Did skyship's opinion ever matter to anyone here?
Why would it matter now? A new user name but still the same ole sunkship
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#2999909 - 05/12/13 01:14 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Swissdieselfan]
Swissdieselfan Offline


Registered: 05/11/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Romanshorn, Switzerland
The first to reply to a comment on toxic Lead levels, are always those suffering the most from the side effects. Some even add oil to their fuel to guarantee it gets inhaled, or use old engines with lots of blowby and leaks.

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#3001558 - 05/14/13 04:51 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26045
Loc: a prison island
lead 100ppm...0.1 grammes in a litre sump...consume 1L/1,000km, and the engine has consumed approximately 600Kg of air, and 40KG of fuel...lead is therefore 0.15, less than 1/3 the ellowable environmental lead levels in Oz (for a year), assuming that you sucked on the exhaust pipe the entire time.

80 percent falls out of the air "quickly", meaning that unless you are drinking NEO, 100ppm of lead is meaningless.

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#3001589 - 05/14/13 06:10 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
tdi-rick Offline


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 1821
Loc: the antipodes
FWIW I believed that the lead was in the form of lead napthenate although Mola said lead dithiocarbamate so I defer to his far greater knowledge of chemistry and additives.

They may or may not still be using it.

The reason Neo/Paul Baker used to call it a 0W-5 was that no SAE grade existed below an xW-30 when it came on the market around 1989 or so.
I first started using it in race engines in 1993 and it was well worth it, even though I needed to tailor engine clearances and surface finishes to suit the oil.
It gave me a huge advantage over most of the opposition.

I remember being told RL is using tin napthenate to combat the fuel dilution issues prevalent these days, particularly with DI petrol engines.
I hope I'm not talking out of school with that.
_________________________
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#3003622 - 05/16/13 12:34 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Swissdieselfan]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan


Lead...............103.......89



If I don't care about the lead increase then why do you? You obviously have no clue what I am trying to do here. You don't even live in the US, so why do you care? Why don't you post on the China auto forum since they are the world worst polluter and is much closer to your own country.

Come to think of it, may be you are effected by the lead from China.

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#3003654 - 05/16/13 03:44 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Swissdieselfan Offline


Registered: 05/11/13
Posts: 92
Loc: Romanshorn, Switzerland
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic

My mileage went from annual average of 44mpg (48 max) when new to 57mpg (62 max) now with all the mods and the low viscosity oil.

What other mods have you done? How much of the mpg improvement do you attribute to oil viscosity?

You can see some of the mods in the engine pic. OMI intake, EGR deletion, DG race pipe, PCV vent to atmosphere, 3" straight exhaust, Aiken fuel box, advance injection timing, 205/70-15 tires, 2T fuel mix, and low viscosity oils. The low oil viscosity is good for 3-5mpg.
The Amsoil bypass filter took care of the soot and allows me to run non diesel oil.


Deleting the EGR valve results in a big increase is NOX emissions. EGR valves are a slight negative in fuel economy and servicing terms but they are fitted for a good reason. Removing them is an anti social act, as it using an oil that contains Lead.

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#3004141 - 05/16/13 03:07 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Swissdieselfan]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Swissdieselfan

Deleting the EGR valve results in a big increase is NOX emissions. EGR valves are a slight negative in fuel economy and servicing terms but they are fitted for a good reason. Removing them is an anti social act, as it using an oil that contains Lead.


Since I don't live in a Socialist country, why do I care? It is my car and I can use whatever I want in it. THIS IS AMERICA, GET IT?

Oh yeah, almost forgot, time for me to go and shoot a few hundred rounds of lead into the air and the ground. I love America.


Edited by azsynthetic (05/16/13 03:08 PM)

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#3099470 - 08/19/13 10:22 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
friendly_jacek Offline


Registered: 05/04/03
Posts: 5094
Loc: southeast US
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic


Since I don't live in a Socialist country, why do I care? It is my car and I can use whatever I want in it. THIS IS AMERICA, GET IT?

Oh yeah, almost forgot, time for me to go and shoot a few hundred rounds of lead into the air and the ground. I love America.


I agree, he sounds anti-social indeed. Freedom and America has nothing to do with that.

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#3099618 - 08/19/13 01:42 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9299
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Here's the NEO PDS:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/neo/0w5.htm

I am surprised it has a claimed VI as high as 180. Nevertheless as has been mentioned has been mentioned this oil is really a light 20wt. What's interesting is it's chemistry and high Phos' level typical of a racing oil. But based on it's spec's it's more interesting than anything from RL, Motul or Millers.

Anyway as far as being a light oil, TGMO 0W-20, Mazda 0W-20, Sustina 0W-20 and SynGard 0W-20 will all be lighter.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#3100151 - 08/20/13 12:05 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
HardbodyLoyalist Offline


Registered: 08/06/04
Posts: 650
Loc: Lower Alabama
Can you elaborate on your future planned experiments?

By using multiple additives in succession, you introduce the possibility of a synergistic or antagonistic interaction between them.

The only way to conclusively attribute increased fuel economy to a single additive would be to change the oil each time a different additive is used or to run a follow-up experiment using only the additive believed to be responsible for the improved mpg.
_________________________
1994 Nissan Hardbody -- Castrol Syntec 5W30
1998 Ford F150 4WD -- Pennzoil HM 5W30
2009 VW Jetta TDI -- Pentosin SuperPerformance III 5W30

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#3112241 - 09/01/13 10:17 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: HardbodyLoyalist]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: HardbodyLoyalist

By using multiple additives in succession, you introduce the possibility of a synergistic or antagonistic interaction between them.


And why would I care? I am not looking for minimum engine wear. There are many possibilities of what could happen to my engine and synergistic or antagonistic interaction between additives is not even on my list of things to worry about.


Originally Posted By: HardbodyLoyalist
The only way to conclusively attribute increased fuel economy to a single additive would be to change the oil each time a different additive is used or to run a follow-up experiment using only the additive believed to be responsible for the improved mpg.


Have you read all my posts on this subject? It is not complicated and to calculate fuel economy is just a simple division. Run 10K without the additive and calculate average fuel economy, add the additive then run for another 10K and calculate the average fuel economy again. How hard can that be?

I currently have over 24K miles on my second run with NEO 0W5. Everything is normal and the fuel economy is getting a hair better by thinning the NEO out with Red Line 2WT race oil. I should go over 300K miles on my car sometime next week. If there is something wrong with my engine as we speak then I have no idea what it is since there is no symptom that I can hear, see, or feel. I should have a 35K UOA sometime in May 2014. Stay tuned.

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#3112296 - 09/01/13 11:55 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 6988
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: HardbodyLoyalist

By using multiple additives in succession, you introduce the possibility of a synergistic or antagonistic interaction between them.


And why would I care? I am not looking for minimum engine wear. There are many possibilities of what could happen to my engine and synergistic or antagonistic interaction between additives is not even on my list of things to worry about.


Originally Posted By: HardbodyLoyalist
The only way to conclusively attribute increased fuel economy to a single additive would be to change the oil each time a different additive is used or to run a follow-up experiment using only the additive believed to be responsible for the improved mpg.


Have you read all my posts on this subject? It is not complicated and to calculate fuel economy is just a simple division. Run 10K without the additive and calculate average fuel economy, add the additive then run for another 10K and calculate the average fuel economy again. How hard can that be?

I currently have over 24K miles on my second run with NEO 0W5. Everything is normal and the fuel economy is getting a hair better by thinning the NEO out with Red Line 2WT race oil. I should go over 300K miles on my car sometime next week. If there is something wrong with my engine as we speak then I have no idea what it is since there is no symptom that I can hear, see, or feel. I should have a 35K UOA sometime in May 2014. Stay tuned.


Awesome.

I'm testing mos2 in a new to me vehicle. Ran 3000 miles with new oil and filter. Changed oil and filter with exact same products,added ms2 and am posting each tanks mileage.
Some guys just don't get it. If all other variables remain relatively consistent then its easy to figure out if anything specific helps in the fuel economy department.
Have you ever tried mos2 or cera-tec. Since you do uoa it would be interesting to see if either helped in the wear department. I'm already convinced that mos2 improves fuel consumption.
I'm not interested enough that I'd spend any money on one. Fuel savings is more than enough for me.
Anyways keep on keeping on. approved
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3112381 - 09/02/13 07:05 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
All Red Line Race oils are full of moly. I run it as a blend in most of my vehicles and YES I do see a better fuel economy in older vehicles.

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#3123483 - 09/13/13 08:29 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
jayg Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 246
Loc: Acworth, GA
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I currently have over 24K miles on my second run with NEO 0W5. Everything is normal and the fuel economy is getting a hair better by thinning the NEO out with Red Line 2WT race oil. I should go over 300K miles on my car sometime next week. If there is something wrong with my engine as we speak then I have no idea what it is since there is no symptom that I can hear, see, or feel. I should have a 35K UOA sometime in May 2014. Stay tuned.


Nice, I look forward to seeing it. I love these ALH motors and what they can do. I really like my CR TDI but as far as pushing the limits of efficiency , it seems like ALH is the way to go.
_________________________
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#3138551 - 09/28/13 12:58 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: jayg]
Mathson Offline


Registered: 12/06/12
Posts: 55
Loc: North Europe
Can someone please tell me what is SAE 0W-5?

Last time I checked SAE J300, there are:

0W
5W
10W
15W
20W
25W
20
30
40
50
60

..and with the latest addition of SAE 16.

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#3139088 - 09/29/13 04:21 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: Mathson]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9299
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Your chart is incomplete.
You can have 0W-XX, 5W-XX through 25W-XX, with XX ranging from 16 to 60. These are the multi-grades.

There are single grade 5wt and 10wt oils. 5wt oils are supposed to have a KV100 in the 3.8-4.09cSt range. So while while there is no official SAE 0W-5 multi-grade oil, race oil formulators use the designation.
Of course as was discussed early in this thread, the NEO 0W-5 is way heavier than that and really is a 20wt oil. So assuming it does have the properties of a 0W-XX oil it really should be thought of as a 0W-20 if it's HTHSV is at least 2.6cP or a 0W-16 if it's HTHSV is less than 2.6cP.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#3273804 - 02/07/14 02:28 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Just an update on this oil. I am at 28K miles going to a 35K OCI on this same oil and the mileage is getting better than ever. I replaced the original glow plug after 300K miles and mileage is now close to 65mpg on the last four tanks. A 35K UOA will be available some time in April. As of today, the car has over 303K miles and still run better than new.

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#3274238 - 02/07/14 08:55 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
turtlevette Offline


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 685
Loc: Massachusetts
Thank you for the data and being a test mule to experiment with thinner oil. I'm trying 0W-20 in my old 350 vette.

I understand your frustration in that you know what you're doing and sharing info, not a beginner begging for help. There are so many eager beavers that jump in and tell you how you're doing it all wrong, and have chips on their shoulder about which additives are socially acceptable here. Some must believe a large post count is a substitute for an engineering degree or experience in the lubrication field.

I get it. I understand that you are more concerned about the viscosity of the oil rather than the chemical additive properties so you don't care about mixing brands to bring the viscosity down during the OCI.
_________________________
08 Mustang 4.0 GC
02 Suburban 5.3 M1 0w-30 AFE
75 Corvette Val 0W-20 syn
79 Trans Am M1 TDT
84 Suburban Castrol Edge Ti 5W-20 syn

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#3276472 - 02/09/14 10:07 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
71Chevyguy Offline


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 377
Loc: Martinsburg West Virginia
Looking forward to the UOA and the details
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99 Beetle TDI 106k RT6 / Mahle filter
99 Beetle TDI 219k RT6 / Mann
87 Caprice 305
71 Nova 250

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