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#2865353 - 01/10/13 11:22 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26708
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Gathermewool has been nothing but polite. He is inquisitive, but instead of answering his questions, you've chosen to attack him. I honestly don't understand your aggression toward him, he has done nothing to slight you from what I have observed.


You forgot that he called me a jerk. Then proceed to tell me the correct use of English which has nothing to do with the UOA in his first post while having no clue of what I am doing. So yeah, I ignored his worthless opinion from then on.


Well, he called you a jerk because you appeared to be acting as one toward JHZR2. I am quite sure I am not the only one who observed that, as Dnewton chimed in as well.

That seems to be what precipitated this whole mess, but I do believe that your initial attitude with respect to how others interpreted your use of the term "used" is the root of everything that has transpired here. People didn't take your use of the word as meaning as a whole, but rather as consumption. You took exception to that and took to task those who questioned you about it. Things went downhill from there.
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#2865358 - 01/10/13 11:27 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

That seems to be what precipitated this whole mess, but I do believe that your initial attitude with respect to how others interpreted your use of the term "used" is the root of everything that has transpired here. People didn't take your use of the word as meaning as a whole, but rather as consumption. You took exception to that and took to task those who questioned you about it. Things went downhill from there.


Actually, things went up hill for JHZR2. See post #2863686.

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#2865423 - 01/10/13 12:43 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1040
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Do you know what the averages are with this engine using the vw spec grade oil. I doubt they could be all that much better?


Over in the TDI Club forum they have a thread listing UOAs. Many are worst than mine and at 10K miles or less.
Are there any UOA's of similar vehicles running bypass systems like you?


Edited by 3311 (01/10/13 12:44 PM)
_________________________
04 2500hd 6.0 258k/12k Delo 5w40 XG3675 VML ATF PGL
03 C7500 Dmax7.8l 134k ST 15w40,M1ATF Dexcool
06 2500hd 6.0 197k ? 5w30 ST DexVI PGL

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#2865464 - 01/10/13 01:25 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: 3311]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: 3311
Are there any UOA's of similar vehicles running bypass systems like you?


Yes, but be prepared for extended reading session.

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#2865470 - 01/10/13 01:30 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1040
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: 3311
Are there any UOA's of similar vehicles running bypass systems like you?


Yes, but be prepared for extended reading session.
Just the Cliff's notes version please.:) How do those bypass applications compare to yours with regard to wear?
_________________________
04 2500hd 6.0 258k/12k Delo 5w40 XG3675 VML ATF PGL
03 C7500 Dmax7.8l 134k ST 15w40,M1ATF Dexcool
06 2500hd 6.0 197k ? 5w30 ST DexVI PGL

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#2865499 - 01/10/13 01:52 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
The bypass application is always better than non-bypass, but to compare two different vehicles with bypasses with different driving history is iffy at best.

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#2865593 - 01/10/13 02:59 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1040
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
The bypass application is always better than non-bypass, but to compare two different vehicles with bypasses with different driving history is iffy at best.
Then that pretty much excludes the huge data base at the tdi club site.

The point of my questions is that if you are at an average wear rate(~1ppm per 1k miles) with a bypass setup, a wear others are seeing without the bypass setup, then a your are experiencing greatly accelerated wear because of your lube choice and the bypass system is masking it IMO. Or youe bypass set up is ineffective.
_________________________
04 2500hd 6.0 258k/12k Delo 5w40 XG3675 VML ATF PGL
03 C7500 Dmax7.8l 134k ST 15w40,M1ATF Dexcool
06 2500hd 6.0 197k ? 5w30 ST DexVI PGL

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#2865654 - 01/10/13 04:10 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3643
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
The bypass application is always better than non-bypass, but to compare two different vehicles with bypasses with different driving history is iffy at best.


Unfortunately, I can't search easily from my phone, but was curious about your bypass setup. Did you install it yourself, and if so, how complicated was the install? Do you have any pics or a link to your DIY?
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#2865751 - 01/10/13 05:29 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: 3311]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: 3311

The point of my questions is that if you are at an average wear rate(~1ppm per 1k miles) with a bypass setup, a wear others are seeing without the bypass setup, then a your are experiencing greatly accelerated wear because of your lube choice and the bypass system is masking it IMO. Or youe bypass set up is ineffective.


None of the UOAs here or on the TDI site are controlled nor configuration managed so any comparison is anecdotal at best. Even the bypass system itself might not be the same nor similarly installed. My current overall wear rates per 1K miles are better than most if not almost all non-bypass UOAs, and I am not even using VW approved oils. I have even better UOA results when using thicker oil. Here is one example:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1247741#Post1247741

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#2865915 - 01/10/13 07:55 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
3311 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 1040
Loc: Fl
I only brought up the TDI site becuse you use it as a point of reference a page or two back.
_________________________
04 2500hd 6.0 258k/12k Delo 5w40 XG3675 VML ATF PGL
03 C7500 Dmax7.8l 134k ST 15w40,M1ATF Dexcool
06 2500hd 6.0 197k ? 5w30 ST DexVI PGL

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#2866174 - 01/11/13 01:24 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: MBS500]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
Originally Posted By: MBS500
So the turbo diesel that calls for heavy 30 oil or 40 oils, runs great on 0w5 non diesel rated oil?
Hmm, I guess I could dump 5w20 VVB in my MB? smile


Every engine type, main block condition, useage, driver style et al result in a different response to oil grade changes. In very general terms if an engine is in good condition (Not used in heavy traffic areas etc), driven gently with top quality oil filtration, using light oils does not seem to make a big difference, BUT it sure does if you push an engine hard, so the Germans often use higher grades as a result. The oil consumption is also a factor, but that does depend on oil type in addition to grade and the effects of leaks etc. The OCI for light oils like a dinoblend 5/20 has to be shorter than that for either a top quality full synthetic 0/20 or 5/30 for most engines, so if you do want to use a 20 grade, don't go cheap unless you reduce the OCI.
The oil has a very interesting VOA, as I've not seen Lead used as an additive before, so I wonder what that is doing in terms of lining the cylinder walls or something. I presume this VW has no high tech CAT to foul, because it might be acting in the same way as the high level of Zinc in some race oils for direct tuned exhaust systems.
The fuel contamination is getting interesting although it's difficult to figure if that is an injection system issue or main block wear.


Edited by skyship (01/11/13 01:30 AM)

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#2866178 - 01/11/13 02:13 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
crashtestdummy Offline


Registered: 08/20/12
Posts: 52
Loc: CA
Thank you very much for posting the information!

Please keep us updated.


Edited by crashtestdummy (01/11/13 02:13 AM)
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1991 VW GTI 9A16v - TGMO-0w20/M1-0w40 OEM-30k-Langzeitfilter
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#2866209 - 01/11/13 04:51 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
fpracha Offline


Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 480
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
From past experiences, I no longer drive during dust storm and I went back to VW airfilters instead of FRAM.

Great results and gives a confidence boost as well to you!

Please inform more about the VW air filters and which website/shop you purchase these from ?

thanks!

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#2866492 - 01/11/13 11:13 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
One point worth considering for those testing engines or systems is the insurance situation. I know several VW TDI owners who are in the ultra high mileage camp and using very light oils plus some weird additives and bio diesel or cooking oil. Those VW chaps keep a very low public profile on Facebook and in the VW forums for legal reasons, because most countries don't like tests to be done on public roads. In insurance terms the risk factor is from some rubber necker or following car getting involved in an accident that they manage to claim was partly caused by smoke or the test car suddenly stopping. That can result in two different possible legal situations developing, firstly one of the following car owners might just try a direct legal action against the owner or driver of the test vehicle, OR their insurance company might make a claim. It can also be your own insurance company that causes a problem if you were found liable, because a lot of countries allow insurance companies to take legal action against policy holders under the gross negligence or illegal operation clauses that invalidate most types of insurance. Negligence in insurance terms is defined as a pre meditated act, not bad driving and illegal operation can be defined as drug smuggling or over weight towing in some cases.
If you are not worth much there is nothing to be concerned about, BUT if you are then invalidating an insurance policy and providing evidence to that effect is not such a good idea. Oddly enough the reaction of the Police is critical, because it is highly unlikely that an insurance company or private person will take legal action unless the person responsible for the test has been found guilty of a related offence.
One way to avoid invalidating your insurance policy as a result of testing is to write to your broker and explain what you are doing, if he then issues a letter saying the activity is included or acceptable, then all is well. In many cases they will increase the premium, but it is worth the extra if you are rich enough to be a potential target.
If the Police get upset by the results of vehicle tests, they can use some fairly odd laws to indicate their displeasure and the easy one they can use when faced with racing or testing, is disorderly conduct likely to endanger public safety. That law carries a much heavier potential fine than littering the highway or causing air pollution.


Edited by skyship (01/11/13 11:15 AM)

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#2866556 - 01/11/13 11:56 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
skyship Offline


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 2071
Loc: Tettnang, Baden-Wurttemberg, G...
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
The bypass application is always better than non-bypass, but to compare two different vehicles with bypasses with different driving history is iffy at best.


Unfortunately, I can't search easily from my phone, but was curious about your bypass setup. Did you install it yourself, and if so, how complicated was the install? Do you have any pics or a link to your DIY?


It's a pity we can't see results from the light oil use without a bypass filter in use, as I suspect it will make a big difference in terms of engine protection. Mixing oil in the fuel is also interesting.
It would be good to see what the new oil could do on its own without extra oil in the fuel and bypass filtration. The German VW chaps were using a straight 10 grade, but had no bypass filter and just an anti ice additive in the fuel. Their speed for the test was 100 kmph, which is the same as the trucks, as going any slower could cause an issue with the Police on the autobahn and is about right for the TDI in fuel economy terms.

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