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#2864943 - 01/09/13 10:55 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
What's not to get?



Why I run NEO 0w5 and ZMAX? Still clueless?

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#2864970 - 01/09/13 11:48 PM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3613
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
What's not to get?



Why I run NEO 0w5 and ZMAX? Still clueless?




You can't quote partial statements, out of context duh

Ok, so maybe we need to break this down into parts:

1. NEO 0W-5: This oil, based on the viscosity is an XW-20. Agreed or is there a question about this still? I have no opinion for or against this weight being used in your application. Still clear? Ok, so no questions on that one, right, and you understand that my only posts pertaining to this oil are to clarify its true specification?

I've given facts, not opinions, so what's your point of contention here? Again, to reiterate (maybe this will help; probably not): I don't care what weight oil you use. I'm interpreting the actual data and simply posted the oil's corresponding viscosity - no opinions involves, so clue or clueless, it matters not.

2. ZMAX: Why do you think you need to run this? If you use Oil A, and Oil A does not meet your standard (be it personal or manufacturer-driven,) then a better oil is in order. At no time should an additive replace using a better oil.

You also claim that you want to thin out your "OW-5 oil." If you want to go thinner, then how about you start by choosing a thinner oil, for criminy's sake! This NEO oil (regardless of how much residual RL is still in there) does not appear to be a thin oil, let alone a 5W at 100C.

So, I dare you to respond meaningfully, instead of calling me clueless. The head of our nuclear training department once told me, "if you can't describe what you know to a dumb Idaho farm boy like myself, then you don't really know what you're talking about." So, if I'm clueless, then give me a clue. Otherwise, concede that you're simply doing what you want without any real reason for it.

I mean, Jesu Christo, your interpretation of being good to go is stating that the ECU hasn't bricked itself. You don't seem to have any idea how your mods are affecting your tune, nor whether the oil you're using is providing adequate pressure. Your engine may last another 300k, but it for darned sure won't be thanks to you!


Edited by gathermewool (01/09/13 11:48 PM)
_________________________
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#2864983 - 01/10/13 12:30 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
I run them because I was looking for maximum fuel economy and not maximum engine protection. You jumped into the middle of my experiment and start to troll about a better oil not needing additives with no clue about the history of my car and how I maintain it. You are not the first and will not be the last.

Here is a clue: read the link in the first post and get some background on my car and ZMAX. Here is another clue: check the UOA archive for previous UOAs of this car and see how low the wear numbers were using a thicker oils.

Bottom line: maximum fuel economy with acceptable engine wear. If the wear numbers for the NEO were double I would still use it because of the return on fuel economy. There isn't another advertised thinner street legal oil or I would have used it.


Edited by azsynthetic (01/10/13 12:35 AM)

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#2864993 - 01/10/13 01:30 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3613
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I run them because I was looking for maximum fuel economy and not maximum engine protection. You jumped into the middle of my experiment and start to troll about a better oil not needing additives with no clue about the history of my car and how I maintain it. You are not the first and will not be the last.

Here is a clue: read the link in the first post and get some background on my car and ZMAX. Here is another clue: check the UOA archive for previous UOAs of this car and see how low the wear numbers were using a thicker oils.

Bottom line: maximum fuel economy with acceptable engine wear. If the wear numbers for the NEO were double I would still use it because of the return on fuel economy. There isn't another advertised thinner street legal oil or I would have used it.


Jesus, dude, I didn't mention anything about using a different oil. I also haven't mentioned a single thing about wear. Based on your comments, it appears as if you're either seriously misreading my posts or erroneously combining my comments with some one else's. I commented about the oil not being a 5W (because it's not,) and that additives are mostly a waste of money. I'm still not sure where you're getting the idea that I've got anything against your choice of oil, since I haven't made a single critical post of the oil itself, nor any of the spectro numbers in your analysis.

You seriously need to re-read what I've posted and look up the definition of "troll."

Bottom line: ZMAX is not needed with a good oil. If your goal is fuel economy, and your thinking is that ZMAX will provide any return on investment, then it is my opinion that you are sorely mistaken. You still haven't answered the question of how much you pay for the NEO, so I'm going to say that either 1. It's an expensive oil that should do well enough on its own, or 2. you'd be better served by using something available off-the-shelf, such as M1 AFE 0W-20. I'll repeat that what you're running now is not much thinner than M1 AFE 0W-20, which has a KV @ 100C of 8.5 cSt (compared to your VOA of 7.4.) So, unless you're getting the NEO for a steal, the ROI isn't really there (again, posting how much you're paying for an oil change would help.) See, now I'm mentioning the possibility of using another oil. It's what's known as a suggestion, not a demand.



Edited by gathermewool (01/10/13 01:33 AM)
_________________________
14 Forester XT
GC 0W-30 + Subie blue filter
08 Civic LX (Auto)
VWB 5W-20 + Fram Ultra Guard filter

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#2865019 - 01/10/13 03:42 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: gathermewool]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
If your goal is fuel economy, and your thinking is that ZMAX will provide any return on investment, then it is my opinion that you are sorely mistaken.



And you are wrong again. ZMAX has given me better fuel economy with the 5w20 and that is the fact. I will soon find out if it will do the same with the NEO while you are still playing the guessing game. You would not have known what the viscosity of the NEO is if it was not for my VOA which was posted a year and a half ago.

I paid around $30 per gallon of NEO 0w5 several years ago. I got the ZMAX through my airport FOB (Avblend) business for less than $15/quart.

I don't need your pointless suggestion since you have no experience in these matters nor do you understand what I am doing. I have facts and you have nothing.

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#2865030 - 01/10/13 04:51 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 15149
Loc: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic

I don't need your pointless suggestion since you have no experience in these matters nor do you understand what I am doing. I have facts and you have nothing.


You will hear tons of useless blather about your additive choices even when the person offering it has NEVER used the product.

Good luck!
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#2865032 - 01/10/13 05:09 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
I am hoping/wishing that the LiquiMoly dude from Germany does not jump in with his good snake oil and bad snake oil routine again.

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#2865045 - 01/10/13 05:55 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7385
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I am hoping/wishing that the LiquiMoly dude from Germany does not jump in with his good snake oil and bad snake oil routine again.


Hehehe. He has a gift. Talking from both sides of mouth at same time.
Back to topic. What made you decide on this particular oil. Since we've now learned it basically a 20 grade are there more stout 20 out there that can achieve your fuel economy mandate?
Have you tried the MOS2 additive from liqui-moly. Every engine I've put it in got better mileage,maybe it can help you.
Or maybe one of those polymer type additives?
_________________________
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#2865068 - 01/10/13 06:24 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Thought it was a real 5WT oil when I purchased them. It is still the thinnest street legal racing oil that I can find. I do have a stash of Royal Purple XPR10 that I might try when the NEO stash is low.

Since the TBN is still over 5 after 25K miles, I was thinking about adding Red Line 5WT racing oil to the current run to add some moly and at the same time lower the viscosity. If I stretch the OCI to 35-40K miles then I might not add anything else except maybe ZMAX.

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#2865165 - 01/10/13 08:39 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
NateDN10 Offline


Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 1406
Loc: Rochester, NY
I applaud you for this experiment and am interested in seeing how far your engine will go with this regime. At 275k miles, your engine has already seen a pretty long life.

I also want to add that not all of us have read all of your previous posts, and maybe in the future you could refer us to those for background. Attacking people who don't know about your experiment isn't helpful to anyone. Just sayin'.
_________________________
2005 Chevrolet Cobalt - 85,000 mi.
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#2865221 - 01/10/13 09:21 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: NateDN10]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: NateDN10

I also want to add that not all of us have read all of your previous posts, and maybe in the future you could refer us to those for background. Attacking people who don't know about your experiment isn't helpful to anyone. Just sayin'.


Then why don't they start with the link I have provided in the first post instead of trolling as an expert with no clue as to what I am trying to do? All the info are there, they just have to read it before they opine.

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#2865323 - 01/10/13 10:52 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3613
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: NateDN10

I also want to add that not all of us have read all of your previous posts, and maybe in the future you could refer us to those for background. Attacking people who don't know about your experiment isn't helpful to anyone. Just sayin'.


Then why don't they start with the link I have provided in the first post instead of trolling as an expert with no clue as to what I am trying to do? All the info are there, they just have to read it before they opine.


I did, and everything other knowledgeable members suggested or explained, some have tried to do again in this thread. They explained that the NEO 0W-5 is really a 20W. I looked at the numbers, compared it to a viscosity chart, and agree that it is indeed (both virgin sample and used sample) a 20W oil. This does NOT take an expert or self-proclaimed expert to decipher.

Another poster commented about modifications and oil weight with respect to oil pressure and bearing wear. You effectively disregarded that statement, and think that because your CEL isn't flashing at you that everything is good to go. As I previously stated, your engine MAY go another 300k miles, but your diligence in monitoring the health of your motor won't be why. I find it seriously odd that you've performed so many mods, and gone to such lengths to keep your oil clean over such a long interval, but don't think something like oil pressure or temperature is a relevant parameter to monitor.

If you'll also notice, most of those who posted in your last thread have stayed clear of this one. Instead of having a meaningful conversation, you'd rather Fox news it up, with vague retorts and rebuttals that don't make any sense, explaining that I don't get some sort of concept that isn't there to be got.

If you want to run your engine to the limit and back, that's your prerogative. However, members of this forum have pleaded a case for prudence. As with any other forum, we've given our humble opinion, with no claim of expertise in the field, in hopes of opening a dialogue. This is our hobby here at BITOG, as you well know, and we like to have conversation about the things we do. It seems as if you'd rather talk at us without any constructive feedback or opinions you don't agree with. Well, tough nuggets; this is the interwebs, and opinions are aplenty!

In conclusion, I'm going to say again that I have nothing against you experimenting, and think it's neat what you're doing. I'm honestly not sure how my comments got spun from factual, unbiased data about the oil itself as well as my opinion (which I stated it as) that I would keep it simple instead of using ZMAX, to some know-it-all interweb troll telling you how to do your bidness.

I hope that you see this for what it is, a silly internet argument, and don't take it as a personal affront. There is no anger in my posts, though I know it's easy to project an emotion onto typed statements and words.




Edited by gathermewool (01/10/13 10:57 AM)
_________________________
14 Forester XT
GC 0W-30 + Subie blue filter
08 Civic LX (Auto)
VWB 5W-20 + Fram Ultra Guard filter

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#2865336 - 01/10/13 11:02 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26459
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
If your goal is fuel economy, and your thinking is that ZMAX will provide any return on investment, then it is my opinion that you are sorely mistaken.



And you are wrong again. ZMAX has given me better fuel economy with the 5w20 and that is the fact. I will soon find out if it will do the same with the NEO while you are still playing the guessing game. You would not have known what the viscosity of the NEO is if it was not for my VOA which was posted a year and a half ago.

I paid around $30 per gallon of NEO 0w5 several years ago. I got the ZMAX through my airport FOB (Avblend) business for less than $15/quart.

I don't need your pointless suggestion since you have no experience in these matters nor do you understand what I am doing. I have facts and you have nothing.


You have a chip on your shoulder and a bad attitude. If you don't want to discuss your experiment, I'd highly suggest not posting about it in a discussion forum. Food for thought.

Gathermewool has been nothing but polite. He is inquisitive, but instead of answering his questions, you've chosen to attack him. I honestly don't understand your aggression toward him, he has done nothing to slight you from what I have observed.
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#2865342 - 01/10/13 11:09 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: OVERKILL]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Gathermewool has been nothing but polite. He is inquisitive, but instead of answering his questions, you've chosen to attack him. I honestly don't understand your aggression toward him, he has done nothing to slight you from what I have observed.


You forgot that he called me a jerk. Then proceed to tell me the correct use of English which has nothing to do with the UOA in his first post while having no clue of what I am doing. So yeah, I ignored his worthless opinion from then on.


Edited by azsynthetic (01/10/13 11:14 AM)

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#2865348 - 01/10/13 11:18 AM Re: NEO 0w5 Racing Synthetic, 25K, VW Golf 1.9TDI, ALH [Re: azsynthetic]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 3613
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Gathermewool has been nothing but polite. He is inquisitive, but instead of answering his questions, you've chosen to attack him. I honestly don't understand your aggression toward him, he has done nothing to slight you from what I have observed.


You forgot that he called me a jerk. Then proceed to tell me the correct use of English which has nothing to do with the UOA in his first post while having no clue of what I am doing. So yeah, I ignored his worthless opinion from then on.


You have a point. I was trying to be silly, but it came off as crass or worse.
_________________________
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08 Civic LX (Auto)
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