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Thank you, JOD.
Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife
- Thread starter Oil Changer
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The sample I sent to Valvoline was poured directly from the pan to the bottles then sealed as I watched.
I can not explain the zinc.
I can not explain the zinc.
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Why won't Valvoline take a few seconds to update their website to put in writing IF MaxLife meets Honda DW1 specs?
Do you "know" that to be true, or do you believe it?
Humor me and point me to where an official Valvoline site documents clearly in writing that MaxLife meets Honda DW1 spec?
I have looked and until a few days ago NOWHERE can I find such a documentation.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Why won't Valvoline take a few seconds to update their website to put in writing IF MaxLife meets Honda DW1 specs?
Do you "know" that to be true, or do you believe it?
Humor me and point me to where an official Valvoline site documents clearly in writing that MaxLife meets Honda DW1 spec?
I have looked and until a few days ago NOWHERE can I find such a documentation.
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I can not explain the zinc.
Not to beat a dead horse, but Valvoline probably can't either, which is likely why they answered how they did. I agree with you that they seemed to be pretty quick to close the case, though, and their response doesn't give a customer a warm-fuzzy that they're really willing to help.
I can not explain the zinc.
Not to beat a dead horse, but Valvoline probably can't either, which is likely why they answered how they did. I agree with you that they seemed to be pretty quick to close the case, though, and their response doesn't give a customer a warm-fuzzy that they're really willing to help.
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Just watched the video. Mine looked nothing like that. It was as black as used diesel engine oil but with a hue of dark, dark red. The burnt clutch smell made me recoil smelling it.
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Oil Changer, just a question: Did the fluid look like it did in this shared video? Cleaner? Dirtier? Just trying to get a "feel" for what was in there.
I know people are grilling you about if it was Maxlife or not. I just wanted to point out that this is me.. draining Maxlife.
I am asking if your Maxlife (drained) looked anything like this or not. I do not know, and there have been no pictures.. So, i am asking, trying to establish some kind of point of reference. Was the fluid.. maybe WAY cleaner? MUCH dirtier? .. Thanks!
Here is me, draining my maxlife... mixed with "whatever was in there," which is the unknown. (Likely for the first time, since it looked like this on the 3rd drain and fill.. with Maxlife ATF, which is why I included this.)
Thank you.
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Oil Changer, just a question: Did the fluid look like it did in this shared video? Cleaner? Dirtier? Just trying to get a "feel" for what was in there.
I know people are grilling you about if it was Maxlife or not. I just wanted to point out that this is me.. draining Maxlife.
I am asking if your Maxlife (drained) looked anything like this or not. I do not know, and there have been no pictures.. So, i am asking, trying to establish some kind of point of reference. Was the fluid.. maybe WAY cleaner? MUCH dirtier? .. Thanks!
Here is me, draining my maxlife... mixed with "whatever was in there," which is the unknown. (Likely for the first time, since it looked like this on the 3rd drain and fill.. with Maxlife ATF, which is why I included this.)
Thank you.
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My post is titled," Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife" and that is a fact.
These transmissions may or may not fail at any mileage but immediately following a complete swap of the fluid on a transmission that was previously operating perfectly? Too much of a coincidence for me.
Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I doubt that you would be so understanding or would be on such moral highground if it happened to you. Easy for you to say such things while on the other side of the fence.
The reason it is easy for me to say such things (and yes, with Moral High Ground, Thank You Very Much) is because my 4L60E went south at about the same mileage (75K) as yours, under the same easy driving as yours, and with far better maintenance. The difference between the two of us, sir, is that I did not make an indignant post on a prominent car maintenance site condemming whatever fluid I last put in it.
May I add that it is a fairly well known fact that this particular transmission can fail at any mileage, and that that fact was even specifically referenced in this thread? And that, as has also been pointed out, there is no history of Maxlife failures with this transmission. And you wonder why people won't buy into your contention that your case is somehow different. Yes, there is a first time for everything, but as of yet we haven't seen it.
These transmissions may or may not fail at any mileage but immediately following a complete swap of the fluid on a transmission that was previously operating perfectly? Too much of a coincidence for me.
Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I doubt that you would be so understanding or would be on such moral highground if it happened to you. Easy for you to say such things while on the other side of the fence.
The reason it is easy for me to say such things (and yes, with Moral High Ground, Thank You Very Much) is because my 4L60E went south at about the same mileage (75K) as yours, under the same easy driving as yours, and with far better maintenance. The difference between the two of us, sir, is that I did not make an indignant post on a prominent car maintenance site condemming whatever fluid I last put in it.
May I add that it is a fairly well known fact that this particular transmission can fail at any mileage, and that that fact was even specifically referenced in this thread? And that, as has also been pointed out, there is no history of Maxlife failures with this transmission. And you wonder why people won't buy into your contention that your case is somehow different. Yes, there is a first time for everything, but as of yet we haven't seen it.
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
My post is titled," Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife" and that is a fact.
These transmissions may or may not fail at any mileage but immediately following a complete swap of the fluid on a transmission that was previously operating perfectly? Too much of a coincidence for me.
I thought it was well established that neglected/weak trannies tend to fail after flush when there is a rapid change in fluid quality?
My post is titled," Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife" and that is a fact.
These transmissions may or may not fail at any mileage but immediately following a complete swap of the fluid on a transmission that was previously operating perfectly? Too much of a coincidence for me.
I thought it was well established that neglected/weak trannies tend to fail after flush when there is a rapid change in fluid quality?
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News to me. My transmission was neither neglected or weak.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
My post is titled," Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife" and that is a fact.
These transmissions may or may not fail at any mileage but immediately following a complete swap of the fluid on a transmission that was previously operating perfectly? Too much of a coincidence for me.
I thought it was well established that neglected/weak trannies tend to fail after flush when there is a rapid change in fluid quality?
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
My post is titled," Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife" and that is a fact.
These transmissions may or may not fail at any mileage but immediately following a complete swap of the fluid on a transmission that was previously operating perfectly? Too much of a coincidence for me.
I thought it was well established that neglected/weak trannies tend to fail after flush when there is a rapid change in fluid quality?
There can't be that much neglect at 73k miles if not towing.
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
News to me. My transmission was neither neglected or weak.
According to a GM mechanic about 2005 Astro Van:
Quote:
the 3-4 clutch is problematic when these get old
http://www.justanswer.com/chevy/5p49r-chevrolet-astro-2005-chevy-astro-van-transmission-wont-go.html
News to me. My transmission was neither neglected or weak.
According to a GM mechanic about 2005 Astro Van:
Quote:
the 3-4 clutch is problematic when these get old
http://www.justanswer.com/chevy/5p49r-chevrolet-astro-2005-chevy-astro-van-transmission-wont-go.html
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I wouldn't call one post/reply from an obscure website as well establishing anything. There are thousands of these vans on the road being used for commercial purposes.
Things like this go hand-in-hand. The ML fanboys have said in this thread that if ML was a problem in these transmissions we would know about them. Well, I know a plumbing company that has a small fleet of these Astro vans with over 200,000 on a couple of them with the original transmissions. These things are loaded down daily until the suspension is on the frame and driven by people that don't give a [censored] about them.
If these transmissions had a history of early failures, we would know about them.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
News to me. My transmission was neither neglected or weak.
According to a GM mechanic about 2005 Astro Van:
Quote:
the 3-4 clutch is problematic when these get old
http://www.justanswer.com/chevy/5p49r-chevrolet-astro-2005-chevy-astro-van-transmission-wont-go.html
Things like this go hand-in-hand. The ML fanboys have said in this thread that if ML was a problem in these transmissions we would know about them. Well, I know a plumbing company that has a small fleet of these Astro vans with over 200,000 on a couple of them with the original transmissions. These things are loaded down daily until the suspension is on the frame and driven by people that don't give a [censored] about them.
If these transmissions had a history of early failures, we would know about them.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
News to me. My transmission was neither neglected or weak.
According to a GM mechanic about 2005 Astro Van:
Quote:
the 3-4 clutch is problematic when these get old
http://www.justanswer.com/chevy/5p49r-chevrolet-astro-2005-chevy-astro-van-transmission-wont-go.html
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I thought it was well established that neglected/weak trannies tend to fail after flush when there is a rapid change in fluid quality?
Not a fact in the sense that it's the new fluid that "kills" it. The common scenario is this (which comes from a host of people that design and build trannys as well as those that repair them that I have interviewed over the years):
-The tranny is essentially dead at the beginning of this already and the burned liquid within it has lost all or most of it's lubrication qualities, certainly the friction modifiers (FM) that make for smooth shift.
-More often than not, there are adverse symptoms, mild to severe. The owner, often feeling guilty for the neglect, or having thoughts about the future major expense, is desperately hoping some easy fix, like an oil change or "tranny-overhaul-in-a-can," is going to fix it.
-Fresh oil is installed. It's robust with FM and lubricant qualities. Unfortunately, the only thing that was making those poor, worn, abused clutches grab each other is the lack of such lubrication qualities, so they almost immediately begin to slip. Slippage destroys what little clutch material is left and throws even more junk out to circulate thru the trans. It soon dies altogether.
-A variation, or a second aspect, of a sudden failure of this nature is that all the buildup of failure debris and collected contamination that, once the new oil is installed, has been collecting in a neglected, abused or failing trans is broken loose from the corners where it's been hiding and causes failure this way. When the oil is "used up" all it's detergent and anti oxidant capabilities are used up as well. The new oil has all these qualities so it starts to clean up the trans... with disastrous results.
There are variations of this, of course, these being the most common scenarios. But take this to the bank: (the correct) new oil will NOT hurt a good tranny.
Also, you have to go pretty far from the required fluid spec to induce a short term failure in an automatic trans so I sincerely doubt the MaxLife was the cause of this. Where is Whitewolf when you need him! Oil Changer, I know your wallet and pride are stinging from this but your attitude is pretty irrational.... understandable.... but still irrational. But, this forum gives you a chance to vent a bit. Call it BITOG therapy ( : < )
I thought it was well established that neglected/weak trannies tend to fail after flush when there is a rapid change in fluid quality?
Not a fact in the sense that it's the new fluid that "kills" it. The common scenario is this (which comes from a host of people that design and build trannys as well as those that repair them that I have interviewed over the years):
-The tranny is essentially dead at the beginning of this already and the burned liquid within it has lost all or most of it's lubrication qualities, certainly the friction modifiers (FM) that make for smooth shift.
-More often than not, there are adverse symptoms, mild to severe. The owner, often feeling guilty for the neglect, or having thoughts about the future major expense, is desperately hoping some easy fix, like an oil change or "tranny-overhaul-in-a-can," is going to fix it.
-Fresh oil is installed. It's robust with FM and lubricant qualities. Unfortunately, the only thing that was making those poor, worn, abused clutches grab each other is the lack of such lubrication qualities, so they almost immediately begin to slip. Slippage destroys what little clutch material is left and throws even more junk out to circulate thru the trans. It soon dies altogether.
-A variation, or a second aspect, of a sudden failure of this nature is that all the buildup of failure debris and collected contamination that, once the new oil is installed, has been collecting in a neglected, abused or failing trans is broken loose from the corners where it's been hiding and causes failure this way. When the oil is "used up" all it's detergent and anti oxidant capabilities are used up as well. The new oil has all these qualities so it starts to clean up the trans... with disastrous results.
There are variations of this, of course, these being the most common scenarios. But take this to the bank: (the correct) new oil will NOT hurt a good tranny.
Also, you have to go pretty far from the required fluid spec to induce a short term failure in an automatic trans so I sincerely doubt the MaxLife was the cause of this. Where is Whitewolf when you need him! Oil Changer, I know your wallet and pride are stinging from this but your attitude is pretty irrational.... understandable.... but still irrational. But, this forum gives you a chance to vent a bit. Call it BITOG therapy ( : < )
Just another obscure mechanic speaking from his limited experience.
I have met many of them. EVERYONE suffers from the same limited experience and the set of assumptions we learn to use.
But some of these so-called experts will really amuse you with their tales from the streets.
We have actually cured strange trans symptoms with a fluid exchange or a pan drop with a new filter, sometimes both! But we would never expect it to fix a weak trans, nor will it harm them.
I have met many of them. EVERYONE suffers from the same limited experience and the set of assumptions we learn to use.
But some of these so-called experts will really amuse you with their tales from the streets.
We have actually cured strange trans symptoms with a fluid exchange or a pan drop with a new filter, sometimes both! But we would never expect it to fix a weak trans, nor will it harm them.
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Thank you, Jim. Your posts are priceless.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Just another obscure mechanic speaking from his limited experience.
I have met many of them. EVERYONE suffers from the same limited experience and the set of assumptions we learn to use.
But some of these so-called experts will really amuse you with their tales from the streets.
We have actually cured strange trans symptoms with a fluid exchange or a pan drop with a new filter, sometimes both! But we would never expect it to fix a weak trans, nor will it harm them.
This needs to be a banner displayed in about 2/3 of the threads in BITOG. Hats Off, SteveSRT8! All of us are limited in what we've done. I've worked on a bunch, but not nearly as much as plenty of others. I like it when we can share what we know but not get all upset and bothered if someone else knows differently, can explain it, and we can learn. I'm guilty of limited knowledge like most folks here.
Just another obscure mechanic speaking from his limited experience.
I have met many of them. EVERYONE suffers from the same limited experience and the set of assumptions we learn to use.
But some of these so-called experts will really amuse you with their tales from the streets.
We have actually cured strange trans symptoms with a fluid exchange or a pan drop with a new filter, sometimes both! But we would never expect it to fix a weak trans, nor will it harm them.
This needs to be a banner displayed in about 2/3 of the threads in BITOG. Hats Off, SteveSRT8! All of us are limited in what we've done. I've worked on a bunch, but not nearly as much as plenty of others. I like it when we can share what we know but not get all upset and bothered if someone else knows differently, can explain it, and we can learn. I'm guilty of limited knowledge like most folks here.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I wouldn't call one post/reply from an obscure website as well establishing anything. There are thousands of these vans on the road being used for commercial purposes.
If these transmissions had a history of early failures, we would know about them.
Actually these transmissions ARE well known for the sun shell failing - I'm not saying that is the case here nor am I a ML fanboy because I've never used the stuff. But given the known weakness of that particular transmission it is a possibility that the sun shell did fail. My understanding is that when it fails, there is no warning sign. But I'm not sure that would explain the burnt fluid. Too bad they did not do a proper diagnosis or tear down because I for one would be interested in what actually caused the failure. Anything else is pure conjecture.
I wouldn't call one post/reply from an obscure website as well establishing anything. There are thousands of these vans on the road being used for commercial purposes.
If these transmissions had a history of early failures, we would know about them.
Actually these transmissions ARE well known for the sun shell failing - I'm not saying that is the case here nor am I a ML fanboy because I've never used the stuff. But given the known weakness of that particular transmission it is a possibility that the sun shell did fail. My understanding is that when it fails, there is no warning sign. But I'm not sure that would explain the burnt fluid. Too bad they did not do a proper diagnosis or tear down because I for one would be interested in what actually caused the failure. Anything else is pure conjecture.
Jim's explanation makes lot of sense, especially the part about lot of gunk coming apart and clogging the passageway. I do wonder about old gunk previously acting as clutch material. I just don't see how gunk would be grabby enough to be able to transfer power.
It makes sense to me that in an old trans the poor quality fluid and high particle count could actually help clutches bite, especially since the tired old pump is probably running at lower than design pressures.
Except that Oil Changer from what I recall mentioned that the old fluid appeared to be in reasonably good condition.
You HAVE to admit that it is ONE BIG COINCIDENCE that just following that complete change over that the trans bits the bullet. I think it is a 50/50 chance that the ML had some part to play in that failure.
You HAVE to admit that it is ONE BIG COINCIDENCE that just following that complete change over that the trans bits the bullet. I think it is a 50/50 chance that the ML had some part to play in that failure.
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Reasonably good? You could see through it on the dipstick. Perfect pink with that wonderful smell. No transmission problems at all. Complete a switch to MaxLife and off to the junk pile.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Except that Oil Changer from what I recall mentioned that the old fluid appeared to be in reasonably good condition.
You HAVE to admit that it is ONE BIG COINCIDENCE that just following that complete change over that the trans bits the bullet. I think it is a 50/50 chance that the ML had some part to play in that failure.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Except that Oil Changer from what I recall mentioned that the old fluid appeared to be in reasonably good condition.
You HAVE to admit that it is ONE BIG COINCIDENCE that just following that complete change over that the trans bits the bullet. I think it is a 50/50 chance that the ML had some part to play in that failure.
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