02 Beetle Diesel - alt. to Amsoil?

[sasilverbullet]

I've been running Amsoil European Forumula 5w-40 since 90K, has 170k on it now. Been doing a 7K OCI using Mann filters.

Just wondering if there's a cheaper alternative to Amsoil out there. Any suggestions guys?

 

[scurvy]

Shell Rotella T6 5w40 is likely the best value to be had.

7k OCI is a waste of oil. On any good CJ-4 5w40 synthetic, that engine has no issues whatsoever going 10k OCIs with ease (if in good shape).

 

[ChiTDI]

Yeah, the Rotella T6 or even Mobil 1 TDT 5w40 on sale can reduce your costs.
$4 -$5 a quart is a good benchmark for price and those oils work well in an '02 TDI.
+1 on scurvy's 10k OCI suggestion.

 

[azsynthetic]

Mobil1 0w40 is speced for your car and can be found on sale for less than $5/qt.

 

[440Magnum]

People have hit all my recommendations, but I'll pile on:

Rotella T6- fantastic oil, and great bang for the buck
M1 TDT 5w40- an alternative to T6 if you can find it priced well
M1 0w40- Best off-the-shelf oil on the planet (OK, exaggeration). But its really, really, really good oil. That said, you're 80 miles south of me, so you don't NEED that "0w" in front of the 40.

All said, I'd go with t6. Wide availability, super good oil. I run it in both my 4-liter Jeeps, and used to run it in the vintage big-blocks until I switched them to M1 0w40 (HV oil pumps do kinda like that "0w" on startup even in warm climates, and they only get an annual oil change so cost isn't an issue).

 

[sasilverbullet]

If I switch to Shell Rotella T6 5w40, what should be the OCI? (remember Diesel)

 

[bigjl]

Perhaps you should just stretch your current OCI on the Amsoil?

Did you do UOA to come to your current OCI?

Using a good quality synthetic I wouldn't be concerned running it to 10k miles.

Though I did a check to see what the OCI in Europe is and it is indeed 10k on fixed intervals or up 30k miles on the variable long life service schedule.

But it seems that they advise 5w30 for both the early Beetle Tdi and the PD version.

I checked a few different sites and they all said the same, a 5w30 up to the appropriate VW specs.

Some do list 5w40 as an alternative.

Is this an ALH or PD engine?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
I've been running Amsoil European Forumula 5w-40 since 90K, has 170k on it now. Been doing a 7K OCI using Mann filters.

Just wondering if there's a cheaper alternative to Amsoil out there. Any suggestions guys?



If you have been running AFL, I contend there is now a BETTER Amsoil 5W-40 than AFL for your application. Try the full SAPS EFM 5W-40. The better news, it's way less expensive!

 

[Provi]

Valvoline PBX 5-40 in my Jetta with the same motor purs.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
If I switch to Shell Rotella T6 5w40, what should be the OCI? (remember Diesel)


Don't forget that some VW diesels are fussy about which exact oil and filter you use, so check the oil finder guides for the major brand oil companies (Castrol, Mobil, Shell and Liqui Moly) and make 100% sure the oil has at least the applicable VW recommendation. There should also be a list of VW approved oils available, but if they list 5/30's check the UK or German pages of the oil finders to see what is used in the EU, as VW were specing 0 or 5/30, but for older VW diesels most owners use a 5/40.
The OCI depends on your useage, driver style, engine condition and how good the oil is, but don't exceed the handbook figure without doing a few UOA's even if you only drive highway trips and never exceed the oil filter limits.

 

[jkhawaii]

Are you a preferred customer? That is one way to reduce the cost of AMSOIL.

 

[84zmyfavorite]

Please, PLEASE use something other than Amsoil. Well, I guess the Damage has already been done, cant hurt much more if you keep using it.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
If I switch to Shell Rotella T6 5w40, what should be the OCI? (remember Diesel)


OCI should be no less than 10k miles if the engine is running well and you're using a quality diesel-specific synthetic oil.

Check the level frequently (once a week or whenever you get fuel) and top up to keep it at the 'full' bend in the dipstick as needed.

My typical recommendations for ALH-engined TDIs in no particular order: Shell Rotella T6 5w40; Mobil 1 TDT 5w40 / European Formula 0w40; Schaeffer 9000 5w40; PC Duron-E 5w40; Amsoil DEO 5w40. Use whichever one you like best.

As far as oil filters go, Wix (NAPA Gold), Bosch, Mann, Hengst or Knecht are all excellent and can be had fairly cheaply.

 

[sasilverbullet]

My son and I have decided to go with Rotella with 7K OCI's. We feel that the 7K is warranted because of the age of the engine. We're about to do a oil change, just for grins we'll send a sample in. I'll post the results when it comes in.

And I am a Amsoil preferred customer...it's still too expensive!

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
We feel that the 7K is warranted because of the age of the engine.


A 2002 TDI is only 11 years old. It's done, what, 175k miles I'm guessing? (EDIT: just reread your first post where you mentioned 170k miles...)

I know people that have TDIs with 400k+ miles on them as daily drivers and not one of them has changed the oil at any less than 10k miles for the entire life of the car. Many of them well beyond that number. No bypass or additional filtration, stock OE filters (Mann, Hengst or Knecht); No fancy oils either, typically the ones I listed above.

It's your car and y'all are free to do what you will, but unless you have a major engine issue, you're throwing away oil that has at least 50% more life in it.

The typical OCI for the same engine in Europe is 31k miles... 10k miles is the severe service interval!

This is one sensible way to save money on oil changes - do less of them! Run this oil out to 10k miles then send in a sample for analysis. Unless there's an underlying issue in the engine, dollars to doughnuts, the oil will be suitable for continued use.

 

[skyship]

If you can get a top quality oil filter (M1 or Bosch EP) rated to 20K miles plus then you can do alternate oil only changes every 10K miles.
The big thing with VW TDI's is they don't like oils that are low in Zinc and the older ones are not keen on thin 30 grades either. Nearly everyone I know with an older German diesel uses either 0 or 5/40, except the farmers who use 10/40 tractor oil.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
My son and I have decided to go with Rotella with 7K OCI's. We feel that the 7K is warranted because of the age of the engine. We're about to do a oil change, just for grins we'll send a sample in. I'll post the results when it comes in.

And I am a Amsoil preferred customer...it's still too expensive!


Just for the record, the 5L jug of EFM 5W-40 is $30.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: skyship
If you can get a top quality oil filter (M1 or Bosch EP) rated to 20K miles plus then you can do alternate oil only changes every 10K miles.
The big thing with VW TDI's is they don't like oils that are low in Zinc and the older ones are not keen on thin 30 grades either. Nearly everyone I know with an older German diesel uses either 0 or 5/40, except the farmers who use 10/40 tractor oil.


the stock Mann filter is more than sufficient for the engine.

though... I personally don't like the AFL, when Amsoil reformulated it to meet 505.01, it became a less stout oil. DEO is closer to the original AFL properities

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: skyship
If you can get a top quality oil filter (M1 or Bosch EP)


Mobil 1 does not make an oil filter for these cars. Bosch claims to make a premium filter but it's obviously wrong as the part number shows up as a spin-on filter but all ALH & PD TDIs take cartridge filters.

In any case the stock filters are of excellent quality and truly enormous.

 

[bigjl]

I second that scurvy.

OE spec filters for VAG vehicles are robust.

As some are on the extended service schedule, which I believe means OCI of up to 30k, I think that is km's but it may be miles!

Anyway, the only difference is the oil, so the filter must be good for large mileages.

As I have mentioned before, I would happily leave the filter in my Pathfinder for multiple OCI's, as long as the total was less than the Nissan interval of 18k miles or two years.

Though the caveat with that is I wouldn't switch oil brands or viscosities, it would only be done with like for like oil changes.

If you have ever seen the filter on the Pathfinder diesel you will know why I am relaxed, it is like a small bin!