After reading this thread I am glad that my autobox specialist uses Morris ATF as that is what is used at the factory and what all the Taxi Garages use.
Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife
- Thread starter Oil Changer
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I have to say, it sounds much more likely that something like this is the cause. I did a full line exchange on a V70 w/150K on the factory fill (w/ML). No problems. If the fluid itself were the cause, I'd think there would be a massive number of failures. I also think the failure mode wouldn't have been to quick and severe. Sorry for the OP's bad luck, but it sounds like something else is going on.
No questions but I do understand your anger at Ashland, it's the way I feel about Nissan. I would say though I have more direct evidence of Nissan's negligence/responsibility in the loss of my engine and thus vehicle, but that's another story.
And while I find your anecdote interesting, it won't keep me from continuing the use of MaxiLife ATF in my vehicles. Just me. I've been using it successfully even in one of Honda's most notorius AT's, 01 Civic. But, I have only done a single drain and fill when I introduced MaxLife. Not sure that really makes a difference though.
Sorry for your tough luck.
And while I find your anecdote interesting, it won't keep me from continuing the use of MaxiLife ATF in my vehicles. Just me. I've been using it successfully even in one of Honda's most notorius AT's, 01 Civic. But, I have only done a single drain and fill when I introduced MaxLife. Not sure that really makes a difference though.
Sorry for your tough luck.
Originally Posted By: 2cool
In my circle of professional acquaintances, it is generally agreed that if a tranny has gone over 5 years, a total fluid exchange is a grenade. The theory is that new fluid will cause the varnished seals and clutch packs to let all of the crud loose at once, plugging the oil passages and the filter; starving the transmission of oil.
This theory is flawed IMO, ATF is a excellent detergent any trans that Ive seen disassembled has been spotless inside. There would never be that much "crud" inside a trans to do that,let alone to be "let loose all at once".
In my circle of professional acquaintances, it is generally agreed that if a tranny has gone over 5 years, a total fluid exchange is a grenade. The theory is that new fluid will cause the varnished seals and clutch packs to let all of the crud loose at once, plugging the oil passages and the filter; starving the transmission of oil.
This theory is flawed IMO, ATF is a excellent detergent any trans that Ive seen disassembled has been spotless inside. There would never be that much "crud" inside a trans to do that,let alone to be "let loose all at once".
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
This seems really strange.
I can't imagine anything close to ATF ruining a tranny that quickly.
I'd love to hear from some experienced techs on this trans failure.
Was it really the Maxlife ATF?
I myself have changed fluids on older, neglected automatics without incident, save for better operation after the change.
The OP's trans was apparently neither old nor neglected so I wonder what might have happened.
I still think that it wasn't the Maxlife ATF.
Me neither. I don't think it was the ML ATF that caused the problem.
I think you had a sun gear or something similar with a manufacturing fault in it such as a hairline crack or tooth ready to go.
I have changed fluids in old and new tranny's and have never had a failure after a fluid change. Case in point: Our daughter's TrailBlazer had approx. 128,000 miles on it with never a fluid change. Changed it out with GM Dexron VI and it is running stong.
It is unfortunate you didn't take a UOA of the old fluid. I suspect it might have shown an impending failure.
This seems really strange.
I can't imagine anything close to ATF ruining a tranny that quickly.
I'd love to hear from some experienced techs on this trans failure.
Was it really the Maxlife ATF?
I myself have changed fluids on older, neglected automatics without incident, save for better operation after the change.
The OP's trans was apparently neither old nor neglected so I wonder what might have happened.
I still think that it wasn't the Maxlife ATF.
Me neither. I don't think it was the ML ATF that caused the problem.
I think you had a sun gear or something similar with a manufacturing fault in it such as a hairline crack or tooth ready to go.
I have changed fluids in old and new tranny's and have never had a failure after a fluid change. Case in point: Our daughter's TrailBlazer had approx. 128,000 miles on it with never a fluid change. Changed it out with GM Dexron VI and it is running stong.
It is unfortunate you didn't take a UOA of the old fluid. I suspect it might have shown an impending failure.
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This makes the most sense, your 2nd filter may have been flawed.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I did a car last year with ML. I too would have lost the tranny if i didn't have a little luck.
I drained, removed and cleaned the pan and replaced the filter, filled it 4 qts of ML. This is where it gets interesting.
I always do a line off after replacing the pan and i did it this time. I used clear PCV tubing and put the end in a gallon jug and started the engine.
Normally fluid comes out in a nice solid stream only this time it had lots of small air bubbles right from the start.
Shut it down immediately and dropped the pan. Defective filter sucking air from the seam near the pipe where it went into the tranny, just below the O-Ring!
New filter, refill and try again. Perfect! Doing the line off saved this unit.
I don't have an answer to yours but in decades of doing line off exchanges i have never had one let go no matter how many miles were on the unit, and never had any trouble with ML either.
I have no idea what happened to your tranny or if the fluid caused the problem or not but IMHO there may be more to it than just fluid.
Originally Posted By: Trav
I did a car last year with ML. I too would have lost the tranny if i didn't have a little luck.
I drained, removed and cleaned the pan and replaced the filter, filled it 4 qts of ML. This is where it gets interesting.
I always do a line off after replacing the pan and i did it this time. I used clear PCV tubing and put the end in a gallon jug and started the engine.
Normally fluid comes out in a nice solid stream only this time it had lots of small air bubbles right from the start.
Shut it down immediately and dropped the pan. Defective filter sucking air from the seam near the pipe where it went into the tranny, just below the O-Ring!
New filter, refill and try again. Perfect! Doing the line off saved this unit.
I don't have an answer to yours but in decades of doing line off exchanges i have never had one let go no matter how many miles were on the unit, and never had any trouble with ML either.
I have no idea what happened to your tranny or if the fluid caused the problem or not but IMHO there may be more to it than just fluid.
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
I have been in both camps. Lost a tranny in a 1994 Taurus Vulcan V-6 at 88K after doing a full swap with proper fluid and filter. No reason other than wanting to do preventative maintainance. It happened 3 K after the change. It started out as a failure to shift from 1st to 2nd when starting from a overnight sit. Soon no shift at all.
When the late GF bought her Mercury Mariner new in '05 I did a drain and fill with Maxlife Dex/Merc at 30K and every 25k after that. After every 3.5 qt Drain and Fill, it shifted smoother and more positivly after each swap. At 80K it shifted and performed better than new. This tranny had a drain plug.
I'm now in the camp that if partial swaps are not done regularly from early in a vehicle's life, lets say starting at 30 to 35K, IMO leave it alone.
When the late GF bought her Mercury Mariner new in '05 I did a drain and fill with Maxlife Dex/Merc at 30K and every 25k after that. After every 3.5 qt Drain and Fill, it shifted smoother and more positivly after each swap. At 80K it shifted and performed better than new. This tranny had a drain plug.
I'm now in the camp that if partial swaps are not done regularly from early in a vehicle's life, lets say starting at 30 to 35K, IMO leave it alone.
If you did not change the fluid at or before the recommended 40K miles, then by 75K the particles in the fluid probably were helping the friction parts not to slip. Put new fluid in and watch it fail in a short time. Nothing new there. Automatic transmissions have been failing like that for a long time.
Here in Pittsburgh with all the hills I change the fluid on our vehicles every 30K miles.
I have a brother who got a car from his in-laws with similar millage of your van. The FIL had never changed the trany fluid, so he had it done. The trany failed shortly after that.
Change the trany fluid and filter at or before recommended depending on severity of use, and you usually get a long life from a trany. Change it once when it is way beyond millage that it should of initially been changed and you very well may be rolling the dice about it failing early if the particles in the old fluid were helping a friction traction system maintain its ability to work when it has been pre-maturely worn from the fluid and filter not being changed when it should.
I have a 1985 Olds 88 that I purchased with 46K miles on it and the trany was shot, slipped between 1st and 2nd. I knew that the trany was shot by finding it during a test drive. I told the dealer that if he came down the price of having a local good trany shop rebuild the trany, I would buy it. He had his people look at it and they verified the trany was shot. I had it rebuilt after I bought it, including a shift kit and a trany fluid cooler because I tow my sailboat sometimes. That was twenty years ago. I had the fluid and filter changed every couple of years at about 20K miles of use. Now I don't drive it much and therefore I don't change the trany fluid as often. But the odometer reads 168K miles and the trany still works. Minus the original tranys 46K and that is 122K miles on this second trany with frequent fluid and filter changes, and it is still going.
Here in Pittsburgh with all the hills I change the fluid on our vehicles every 30K miles.
I have a brother who got a car from his in-laws with similar millage of your van. The FIL had never changed the trany fluid, so he had it done. The trany failed shortly after that.
Change the trany fluid and filter at or before recommended depending on severity of use, and you usually get a long life from a trany. Change it once when it is way beyond millage that it should of initially been changed and you very well may be rolling the dice about it failing early if the particles in the old fluid were helping a friction traction system maintain its ability to work when it has been pre-maturely worn from the fluid and filter not being changed when it should.
I have a 1985 Olds 88 that I purchased with 46K miles on it and the trany was shot, slipped between 1st and 2nd. I knew that the trany was shot by finding it during a test drive. I told the dealer that if he came down the price of having a local good trany shop rebuild the trany, I would buy it. He had his people look at it and they verified the trany was shot. I had it rebuilt after I bought it, including a shift kit and a trany fluid cooler because I tow my sailboat sometimes. That was twenty years ago. I had the fluid and filter changed every couple of years at about 20K miles of use. Now I don't drive it much and therefore I don't change the trany fluid as often. But the odometer reads 168K miles and the trany still works. Minus the original tranys 46K and that is 122K miles on this second trany with frequent fluid and filter changes, and it is still going.
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
I have been in both camps. Lost a tranny in a 1994 Taurus Vulcan V-6 at 88K after doing a full swap with proper fluid and filter. No reason other than wanting to do preventative maintainance. It happened 3K after the change. It started out as a failure to shift from 1st to 2nd when on first attempt from a overnight sit. Soon no shift at all.
When the late GF bought her Mercury Mariner new in '05 I did a drain and fill with Maxlife Dex/Merc at 30K and every 25k after that. After every 3.5 qt Drain and Fill, it shifted smoother and more positive after each swap. At 80K it shifted and performed better than new. This tranny had a drain plug.
I'm now in the camp that if partial swaps are not done regularly from early in a vehicle's life, lets say starting at 30 to 35K, IMO leave it alone. Since the failed Taurus tranny, my vehicles will either be manuals, or automatics with a easy access drain plugs (like my '05 Accord 4-cyl) so maintainance can be easily done early and often, to slowly remove wear metals, before they have a change to clog passages and to remain low in quantity.
When the late GF bought her Mercury Mariner new in '05 I did a drain and fill with Maxlife Dex/Merc at 30K and every 25k after that. After every 3.5 qt Drain and Fill, it shifted smoother and more positive after each swap. At 80K it shifted and performed better than new. This tranny had a drain plug.
I'm now in the camp that if partial swaps are not done regularly from early in a vehicle's life, lets say starting at 30 to 35K, IMO leave it alone. Since the failed Taurus tranny, my vehicles will either be manuals, or automatics with a easy access drain plugs (like my '05 Accord 4-cyl) so maintainance can be easily done early and often, to slowly remove wear metals, before they have a change to clog passages and to remain low in quantity.
This is indeed an unfortunate problem and $2700 is not an insignificant unexpected expense these days.
But I agree with Trav. More to it than a simple fluid problem or incompatibility issues with ML. And I have seen the exact same thing happen with the filter Trav described, and, yes, it could kill a trans in short order, though the adverse drivability symptoms would like come right away. This "new fluid kills old automatics" thing is almost pure myth. We could have a very long side discussion on that.
Sometimes it really is just a case of "fecal matter occurs." Trannies just die and if they are going to die unexpectedly, old Murph usually dictates the most inconvenient time. An unbaised and expert autopsy could yield the true cause but that might be difficult to arrange and prohibitively expensive.
I will also vote with Trav on the efficacy of cooler line fluid exchanges, when possible. After a first pan drop, that is.
My studies have yielded the facts that the average automatic produces some 75 percent of it's lifetime amount of contaminants in the first 5K of operations (25 years of studies by Eleftherakis & Khalil), which is a combination of what was built in by residual mfr. debris and break-in wear. This makes the first fluid change/pan drop the most important and best done early. After that, an easily used trans does not create much contamination and it's just a matter of gauging fluid life... which is often very long in an easily used trans.
To go farther with this and explain why that first change is so important, John Eleftherakis and Abe Khalil, who have done a series of studies for the OE trans manufacturers and the aftermarket that started in the late '80s, and continues to today. After sampling the oil in thousands of automatics in service, they found that the average trans with 70K or more miles that has not had a service contains approximately 263 mg/l (milligrams per liter) of contaminants, 90 percent of which is metallic. Of those metallic particles, 51 percent are ferrous (iron/steel), 21 percent copper, 11 percent aluminum and 7 percent lead. The particles range in size from 5 to 80 microns, about 82 percent of them larger than 5 microns. Yes the trans has a internal filter, but the best on the market today filters at 80 microns nominal and many cheap ones, or older filters are at 100 microns, or larger. Some of the screens in older transmissions are 150-200 microns and all they get are the "boulders.
Long term, the metallic particles cause wear on the pump vanes/housing and on bearings and bushings, but valves don't like debris either and that's where the shorter term problems can come from. A chunk of debris can score the bore of a valve and cause it to leak, or jam outright. I don't have to tell you what a metallic particle will do to a rubber seal or o-ring, or that a chunk of iron is a lot harder than an aluminum valve bore.
With the advent of electronic valves, a new problem was created. What is an electronically controlled valve?? An electromagnet! Magnets attract ferrous particles, so the iron in the trans is gravitating to those areas and causing valve malfunctions to occur even sooner. Once the valves start to malfunction, you get reduced pressures or delayed shifts, all of which cause extra wear on the clutches. Often it's so slow and imperceptible that the driver doesn't feel it until it gets really bad. That might be at 100K miles, so he says, "Oh well" and has the trans rebuilt when, with some care, that trans might have outlasted the car. Sometimes there is so much manufacturing grunge (or remanufacturing... rebuilt trans have the same trouble) in the trans that it fails under warranty.
This could also be a good argument for additional trans filtration and this is an increasingly common feature on automatics.
The good news is that, after decades of ignoring the problem, the OEs are finally instituting some manufacturing upgrades that should eliminate most of the built in contamination. Improved internal filtration has been developed as well ( there are some design hurdles that have limited the possible efficiency of a pan filter). Unfortunately, Oil Changer, the 4L60E in your Astro doesn't fit into that "new age."
If you plan of keeping your Astro long term, a cooler line filter is a good idea.
But I agree with Trav. More to it than a simple fluid problem or incompatibility issues with ML. And I have seen the exact same thing happen with the filter Trav described, and, yes, it could kill a trans in short order, though the adverse drivability symptoms would like come right away. This "new fluid kills old automatics" thing is almost pure myth. We could have a very long side discussion on that.
Sometimes it really is just a case of "fecal matter occurs." Trannies just die and if they are going to die unexpectedly, old Murph usually dictates the most inconvenient time. An unbaised and expert autopsy could yield the true cause but that might be difficult to arrange and prohibitively expensive.
I will also vote with Trav on the efficacy of cooler line fluid exchanges, when possible. After a first pan drop, that is.
My studies have yielded the facts that the average automatic produces some 75 percent of it's lifetime amount of contaminants in the first 5K of operations (25 years of studies by Eleftherakis & Khalil), which is a combination of what was built in by residual mfr. debris and break-in wear. This makes the first fluid change/pan drop the most important and best done early. After that, an easily used trans does not create much contamination and it's just a matter of gauging fluid life... which is often very long in an easily used trans.
To go farther with this and explain why that first change is so important, John Eleftherakis and Abe Khalil, who have done a series of studies for the OE trans manufacturers and the aftermarket that started in the late '80s, and continues to today. After sampling the oil in thousands of automatics in service, they found that the average trans with 70K or more miles that has not had a service contains approximately 263 mg/l (milligrams per liter) of contaminants, 90 percent of which is metallic. Of those metallic particles, 51 percent are ferrous (iron/steel), 21 percent copper, 11 percent aluminum and 7 percent lead. The particles range in size from 5 to 80 microns, about 82 percent of them larger than 5 microns. Yes the trans has a internal filter, but the best on the market today filters at 80 microns nominal and many cheap ones, or older filters are at 100 microns, or larger. Some of the screens in older transmissions are 150-200 microns and all they get are the "boulders.
Long term, the metallic particles cause wear on the pump vanes/housing and on bearings and bushings, but valves don't like debris either and that's where the shorter term problems can come from. A chunk of debris can score the bore of a valve and cause it to leak, or jam outright. I don't have to tell you what a metallic particle will do to a rubber seal or o-ring, or that a chunk of iron is a lot harder than an aluminum valve bore.
With the advent of electronic valves, a new problem was created. What is an electronically controlled valve?? An electromagnet! Magnets attract ferrous particles, so the iron in the trans is gravitating to those areas and causing valve malfunctions to occur even sooner. Once the valves start to malfunction, you get reduced pressures or delayed shifts, all of which cause extra wear on the clutches. Often it's so slow and imperceptible that the driver doesn't feel it until it gets really bad. That might be at 100K miles, so he says, "Oh well" and has the trans rebuilt when, with some care, that trans might have outlasted the car. Sometimes there is so much manufacturing grunge (or remanufacturing... rebuilt trans have the same trouble) in the trans that it fails under warranty.
This could also be a good argument for additional trans filtration and this is an increasingly common feature on automatics.
The good news is that, after decades of ignoring the problem, the OEs are finally instituting some manufacturing upgrades that should eliminate most of the built in contamination. Improved internal filtration has been developed as well ( there are some design hurdles that have limited the possible efficiency of a pan filter). Unfortunately, Oil Changer, the 4L60E in your Astro doesn't fit into that "new age."
If you plan of keeping your Astro long term, a cooler line filter is a good idea.
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I changed fluid and filter every 20K two years with the 1985 Olds 88 that I would load up with 2 weeks of gear and the boat and go camping every summer. Now the 2001 Impala sees most of the driving and that gets trany fluid and filter every 30K miles. It is on its second trany fluid fill now and shifts fine. It did mis-shift twice after the last fill. But both time were right after first use of the day, and I attribute those two slow shifts to air trapped in the system working its way out. That was over a year ago and not slow or mis-shifts since.
Sorry to hear of your issues, but WHY would you drop the pan so many times in such a short period of time? IMO, that many times is just asking for a gasket leak, tweaked pan or stripped bolt.
4L60E's are good transmissions and I've never heard of Maxlife (in itself) ever being an issue with one in the past.
IMO, the only time you want to drop the pan is to clean the magnet and change the filter.
Cooler line pump-out and dipstick tube refill is the way to go.
FWIW, you can get 4L60E pans with built-in drain plugs.
I have a feeling this trans would have failed the same regardless of the brand of ATF being used.
Joel
4L60E's are good transmissions and I've never heard of Maxlife (in itself) ever being an issue with one in the past.
IMO, the only time you want to drop the pan is to clean the magnet and change the filter.
Cooler line pump-out and dipstick tube refill is the way to go.
FWIW, you can get 4L60E pans with built-in drain plugs.
I have a feeling this trans would have failed the same regardless of the brand of ATF being used.
Joel
A question for the OP, slightly off topic. Knowing what you had planned, why didn't you install a drain plug in the pan the first go round? Or did you? Seems like a weekly pan drop would be awfully messy! Just asking.... don't mean anything at all by it.
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Originally Posted By: bigjl
After reading this thread I am glad that my autobox specialist uses Morris ATF as that is what is used at the factory and what all the Taxi Garages use.
Fluid brand wasn't at fault here...I think Trav has it right...so I hope your autobox specialist doesn't get any defective filters...
FWIW, ML is in my Toyota at the moment...and with 239,000 miles on it, it's fine...but it got a genuine Toyota filter when the pan was dropped.
After reading this thread I am glad that my autobox specialist uses Morris ATF as that is what is used at the factory and what all the Taxi Garages use.
Fluid brand wasn't at fault here...I think Trav has it right...so I hope your autobox specialist doesn't get any defective filters...
FWIW, ML is in my Toyota at the moment...and with 239,000 miles on it, it's fine...but it got a genuine Toyota filter when the pan was dropped.
So...if the transmission is going to fail because of an oil change..is it going to fail immediately?
It's been 5 months since i did my first ATF change at 90,000 miles...i still praying it don't dies on me.
It's been 5 months since i did my first ATF change at 90,000 miles...i still praying it don't dies on me.
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I agree 100% I have bit my tongue for a long time over this. I'm now in the camp that if you have not done routine changes since new, leave it alone. Otherwise stay on top of it like you would engine oil.
Thanks for your story. I'm of the belief that you didn't do anything wrong. Your methodology seemed fine. The transmission fluid wasn't terribly old - it's not like it was the first change after half a million miles.
I don't know if the ML would be to blame, though. It could be any number of things. Trav mentioned defective filters. Mola mentioned manufacturing faults.
I certainly understand your frustration in this matter, and it's clear to me you followed reasonable procedures along the way, including fluid choice. I'm not trying to defend the fluid to you. All I'm saying is you found a fluid that claimed to be suitable for your application and you chose it in good faith. So, there is some fault somewhere, but it certainly isn't yours.
I agree 100% I have bit my tongue for a long time over this. I'm now in the camp that if you have not done routine changes since new, leave it alone. Otherwise stay on top of it like you would engine oil.
Thanks for your story. I'm of the belief that you didn't do anything wrong. Your methodology seemed fine. The transmission fluid wasn't terribly old - it's not like it was the first change after half a million miles.
I don't know if the ML would be to blame, though. It could be any number of things. Trav mentioned defective filters. Mola mentioned manufacturing faults.
I certainly understand your frustration in this matter, and it's clear to me you followed reasonable procedures along the way, including fluid choice. I'm not trying to defend the fluid to you. All I'm saying is you found a fluid that claimed to be suitable for your application and you chose it in good faith. So, there is some fault somewhere, but it certainly isn't yours.
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And to JTK...
I looked in to buying a pan with a plug. They are about $100 and I didn't feel it was necessary. I have a B&M plug kit, but after the first pan drop and seeing how close the valve body was to the bottom of the pan, I could not decide on a good location so I never put it in.
I've done this before. Stripped bolts, leaking gaskets, etc. was never a worry and I barely spilled a drop each time.
As I said, I did this in short order in an attempt to get the FF completely out before the weather turned cold.
I did the same procedure to my mother's vehicle (Grand Marquis)that had the FF at 145K miles. I used factory fluid in hers. No problems.
Originally Posted By: c502cid
A question for the OP, slightly off topic. Knowing what you had planned, why didn't you install a drain plug in the pan the first go round? Or did you? Seems like a weekly pan drop would be awfully messy! Just asking.... don't mean anything at all by it.
I looked in to buying a pan with a plug. They are about $100 and I didn't feel it was necessary. I have a B&M plug kit, but after the first pan drop and seeing how close the valve body was to the bottom of the pan, I could not decide on a good location so I never put it in.
I've done this before. Stripped bolts, leaking gaskets, etc. was never a worry and I barely spilled a drop each time.
As I said, I did this in short order in an attempt to get the FF completely out before the weather turned cold.
I did the same procedure to my mother's vehicle (Grand Marquis)that had the FF at 145K miles. I used factory fluid in hers. No problems.
Originally Posted By: c502cid
A question for the OP, slightly off topic. Knowing what you had planned, why didn't you install a drain plug in the pan the first go round? Or did you? Seems like a weekly pan drop would be awfully messy! Just asking.... don't mean anything at all by it.
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To all:
For clarification, I was getting tired of typing in my OP. I drove the van for four days after the last pan drop before the transmission failed.
There were small warning signs but I thought it was the characteristics of the new fluid. Something felt different but not wrong. I actually liked the way the transmission performed right before failure.
I checked the fluid each day before driving to see the level cold, and upon returning to check the level hot. The level was fine and, up until failure, looked and smelt fine.
For clarification, I was getting tired of typing in my OP. I drove the van for four days after the last pan drop before the transmission failed.
There were small warning signs but I thought it was the characteristics of the new fluid. Something felt different but not wrong. I actually liked the way the transmission performed right before failure.
I checked the fluid each day before driving to see the level cold, and upon returning to check the level hot. The level was fine and, up until failure, looked and smelt fine.
Why blaim the oil? You changed the filter too.
FWIW I worked at an auto fluid flush joint once. I was flushing transmissions every day. These transmissions had typically done 80-100k miles and the fluid was burn or black. I usually flushed them with 3-4 or even 5 gallons of fluid to remove all the old fluid. Not one transmission ever had a problem. I used either DX3, T-IV or a Ford spec fluid in everything. Never did a CVT though.
FWIW I worked at an auto fluid flush joint once. I was flushing transmissions every day. These transmissions had typically done 80-100k miles and the fluid was burn or black. I usually flushed them with 3-4 or even 5 gallons of fluid to remove all the old fluid. Not one transmission ever had a problem. I used either DX3, T-IV or a Ford spec fluid in everything. Never did a CVT though.
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