Thumbs Up for SAE 16 Vis Grade

[buster]

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article002579890.cfm?x=b11,0,w

Quote:
Its minimum high-temperature high-shear rate viscosity is 2.3 mPa·sec at 150 C.


Quote:
The new SAE 16 grade is expected to have minimum impact on the North American engine oil market, since it is being specified by only one automaker (Honda) for 2013 model year engines. Honda says tests show that its current design engines can gain fuel economy benefits and maintain adequate durability from oils with viscosity grades lower than SAE 0W-20.

 

[NateDN10]

News to me! I wonder if it's just specific models, or the whole lineup? It'll be interesting to see 0W-16 on the shelves.

 

[buster]

As a friend of mine said to me today: "Disposable cars. The used car market is going to be a nightmare in a few years between 15k oil changes,16 weight oils, and "lifetime" fills. Maybe they'll use it for small displacing motors (1.3 liters and less) and have huge oil pans?"

LOL

 

[lexus114]

Eeeeeh 0W16// wow.

 

[Rand]

so how does that compare to 0w20 which is a fairly wide grade that can be close to a thin 30wt?

and why 16?
why not 15 or 10?

the numbers are meaningless and refer to a range of viscosities

ie 5w20 can be 5% thinner than a 5w30 not 33% thinner or more..(as you would think 20 vs 30)

although depending on the oil it could also be nearly half the viscosity ie 50% thinner....

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: buster
As a friend of mine said to me today: "Disposable cars. The used car market is going to be a nightmare in a few years between 15k oil changes,16 weight oils, and "lifetime" fills. Maybe they'll use it for small displacing motors (1.3 liters and less) and have huge oil pans?"

LOL


I have to say that I agree with your friend. Especially on the lifetime fill thing and the 15k oil changes.

 

[RamFan]

Why on Earth they didn't make it Xw15 I still don't know. Also, am I the only one that doesn't like that the SAE doesn't have HTHS ranges versus merely minimums. I.e. Xw16 should be 2.3-2.59, Xw20 should be 2.6-2.89. It avoids things like GC, etc.

 

[Texan4Life]

they probably went with 16 so it wouldn't look like anything else. ie imagine quick lube techs or your walmart shopper assuming 15w-40 is the right oil.

 

[Shannow]

It's good to see that Honda's assessment of engine durability on the new oils is "adequate". Would be interested in understanding the extent of "adequate"

Note this comment is no to be construed as in any way referring to a pile of failed engines on every street corner, or instant, terminal destruction the second the key is turned.

 

[buster]

^+1. I agree. What does adequate mean?

 

[KrisZ]

I would like to know what Honda means by adequate as well.
As far as cars becoming disposable, I think that it's true, at least that's how the majority of people treat them, so no wonder manufacturers oblige. Most people aren't interested in keeping their car too far beyond the warranty period and they're even less interested in maintaining them. Most people see lifetime fluids as a plus.

That's not to say that cars will fall apart under good maintenance and extra work that is not mentioned in owners manuals, but I have a feeling that cars that only had minimum maintenance done, as outlined by manufacturers, will have little life left with the push for less and less maintenance.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: buster
^+1. I agree. What does adequate mean?

Honda used to mean a 200,000+ mile engine no problem. The Internet is littered with Odysseys blowing up at 80,000 miles and Honda telling loyal customers to pound sand.

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: buster
^+1. I agree. What does adequate mean?



5 years, then they can sell you another Honda......

Hold on to your accords/civics/camrys/pontiacs/buicks etc. The newer cars are becoming harder and harder for the DIY crowd to work on. They are also like someone mentioned, now on the theory of disposable. Hyundai and Kia have started sealing their transmissions. Mazda tells me its a lifetime fill on my Skyactiv trans. So are alot of German vehicles.

The days of keeping up with simple preventative maintainence and having cars last 200k+ miles are coming slowly to an end.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Since most of their engines outlast the cars they're in I'm sure a 10 - 15% reduction in lifespan would be deemed adequate.

- 5W-30 = 500,000 miles

- 5W-20 = 450,000 miles

- XX-16 = 425,000 miles

Most cars don't even stay on the road long enough to see these numbers. I could see them figuring a set of numbers like these to be an adequate trade-off.

Now if the above number spreads were true I'd run the 5W-30. But then again I'm a Bitog man.

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
they probably went with 16 so it wouldn't look like anything else. ie imagine quick lube techs or your walmart shopper assuming 15w-40 is the right oil.


Great observation

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: bourne
Originally Posted By: buster
^+1. I agree. What does adequate mean?



5 years, then they can sell you another Honda......

Hold on to your accords/civics/camrys/pontiacs/buicks etc. The newer cars are becoming harder and harder for the DIY crowd to work on. They are also like someone mentioned, now on the theory of disposable. Hyundai and Kia have started sealing their transmissions. Mazda tells me its a lifetime fill on my Skyactiv trans. So are alot of German vehicles.

The days of keeping up with simple preventative maintainence and having cars last 200k+ miles are coming slowly to an end.


I totally agree. And these disposable cheapy plastic cars are expensive.

 

[artificialist]

Many cars are junked, not because the engine is failing, but because the interior is falling apart, electrical items are glitchy, the AC isn't cold, and things like that. Also many automatic transmissions are dead by that time.

Lets see what happens when all that other stuff of a car lasts as long as the engine.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: buster
As a friend of mine said to me today: "Disposable cars. The used car market is going to be a nightmare in a few years between 15k oil changes,16 weight oils, and "lifetime" fills. Maybe they'll use it for small displacing motors (1.3 liters and less) and have huge oil pans?"

LOL


I missed the part where cars don't last as long as "the good old days". Seems to me that they last longer than ever, and that engine failure almost never puts a car in the boneyard?

As far as 'lifetime fills' and long OCI's, keep in mind that the average person never changes those fluids spec'd as "lifetime" even when there's a service interval specified and most don't change their oil on time--and the average obsessive owner (read BITOG member) is going to just change them anyway. So, at least there's a high-quality fluid in there and it has a fighting chance to go a little longer.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: buster
As a friend of mine said to me today: "Disposable cars. The used car market is going to be a nightmare in a few years between 15k oil changes,16 weight oils, and "lifetime" fills. Maybe they'll use it for small displacing motors (1.3 liters and less) and have huge oil pans?"

LOL


I missed the part where cars don't last as long as "the good old days". Seems to me that they last longer than ever, and that engine failure almost never puts a car in the boneyard?

As far as 'lifetime fills' and long OCI's, keep in mind that the average person never changes those fluids spec'd as "lifetime" even when there's a service interval specified and most don't change their oil on time--and the average obsessive owner (read BITOG member) is going to just change them anyway. So, at least there's a high-quality fluid in there and it has a fighting chance to go a little longer.





I think we were separated at birth.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Honda used to mean a 200,000+ mile engine no problem. The Internet is littered with Odysseys blowing up at 80,000 miles and Honda telling loyal customers to pound sand.


Perhaps, but is jumping up a grade or two going to change an 80,000 mile vehicle into a 200,000+ mile vehicle? If the lube specified by the manufacturer is grossly wrong, sure, but I would expect there are other things going on here.