3-way switch causing breaker to trip

[barlowc]

Hi guys. I was messing with some wiring earlier and now have a 3-way switch that trips the breaker. Maybe you can help?

I was messing with a 15-amp circuit that has a bunch of stuff on it including a smoke detector and doorbell transformer, both of which are down in the basement. A Black/White/Ground wire ran to the smoke detector, then to the doorbell transformer, and from there to the 3-way switch.

I removed the smoke detector and doorbell transformer and ran the Black/White/Ground wire (that previously went to the smoke detector) directly to the 3-way switch. I **believe** I connected it just like before, but now it causes the breaker to trip when I switch it. Everything else on the circuit is functioning fine.

The switch is a standard 3-way Leviton from Home Depot. The red wire from the other wire that runs to the box is connected to the same copper-screw terminal as before. Same with the black wire. In fact, those were never disconnected. The white wire was coupled with the new one, as were the ground wires which were then reconnected to the switch. The black wire from the new wire was connected to the black-screw terminal, which is where the old black wire was connected.

Given that everything else on the circuit is working, I'm guessing I just have something with this switch messed up and despite going over it again and again, can't find what I did wrong.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

Why not just sketch out the circuit? It will be obvious then.

 

[Rand]

this is one of those hands on things you cant really get help on the internet from without helping yourself.

 

[barlowc]

Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Why not just sketch out the circuit? It will be obvious then.

Tried that, and couldn't see the error in my ways. Best I can see, black is black, white is white, ground is ground, and the only difference is that there isn't a smoke detector and doorbell transformer in between.

 

[BigCahuna]

Pull the black wire off and try the switch again. Might be shorting the hot [black wire] directly to ground [white wire].,,

 

[SuperDave456]

I had an issue like this after we replaced the breaker panel in my house.

The good news is that your breakers work!

The bad news is that you are probably sharing grounds somewhere. You have 2 separate lines (for power) and 2 separate grounds. The breaker senses that it has a ground/short and pops.

I had a similar issue with a light in my living room. It was on a 3 way circuit. You switch one switch on, the circuit controlling it popped off.

In 1978, when they built my house, they didn't have the technology they have today. So the old 3 way circuit was installed with the light potentially being powered from 2 switches, each on their own breaker.

Lots of stuff they did back then did not make sense. However, houses are built for speed, not accuracy. And no thought whatsoever as to what technologies are down the road.

For a year we lived with it this way. I put black electrical tape over the switches so that nobody would accidentally flip a switch and short out everything on that circuit.

I eventually rewired it so that one switch controlled the light. The other controlled a ceiling fan that I installed in my living room.

BTW, 4 gang boxes are a pain to rewire! Lots of wires to maneuver to get everything straightened out.

My suggestion would be to go get a wiring basics book. Study up on it, then go get an Advanced book.
You are going to have to get comfortable crawling around the attic.
I decided to build a walkway up in mine, although all you can do is crawl on the walkway. I also built a chair out of some scrap 2x4 up there so that I have a place to rest.

My family has a saying. "You don't own a house until you fall through the ceiling."
I fell through over our Master Bath while I was remodeling it and putting a new light fixture over the shower.

 

[barlowc]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Pull the black wire off and try the switch again. Might be shorting the hot [black wire] directly to ground [white wire].,,

Which black wire? The "new" one that is part of the black/white/ground wire? Or the "old" one that is part of the red/black/white/ground wire?

And when you say it "might be shorting the hot [black wire] directly to ground [white wire]", white neutral and the bare wire is ground. I just want to make sure I understand what you're suggesting.

 

[sparky123]

Switches, be they single pole, 3 way or 4 way only control the hot (+). The neutral (-) normally idendified as a white wire is not hooked up to the switch. They are going to the light or whatever device as the return for the circuit. (As is the ground if you have a grounded system.) Between your 3 way switches you should have two traveler wires (red/black) and the white and the ground continue to the device. (14-3 w/ground or 12-3w/ground wire.) You need to idendify the power (line) coming in one of the 3 way swiches which is connected to the black screw on your 3 way switch. The two gold terminals are for the traveler wires. On the other 3 way switch you have the travelers hooked up to the two gold terminals. The black terminal is for the "load" (+) going to your device. Get yourself a "non-contact" electrical tester. ($10-15) Remember your switches only control the hot leg. It sounds like you have the neutral hooked up to your switch. I hope you find the problem.

 

[JimPghPA]

Red wire to the breaker box is for the other side of the other 120, and is used for 240 Volts AC.

You need to find a friend who knows how a 3 way switch set up works, and get them to either explain how a three way switch works, or have them go over you wiring.

You might also search on the internet such as youtube , wikipedia, and google, and learn about how a 3 way switches are wired, and how that circuit works.

 

[Kestas]

I once had to diagnose a poorly intalled 3-way. I stripped everything to the basics.

Forget the wire color. I removed the switches and disconnect all wires. Using a volt-ohm meter I identifed every wire in the boxes and service light... which lines were hot, which were continuous, and which were ground. I then looked at a diagram from an electricians book, the diagram on the switches, and hooked everything up to how it should be. Problem solved.

 

[dakota99]

See if your setup follows one of these diagrams. Three ways can be a pain sometimes, especially when you weren't the one who installed it.

http://www.homeimprovementweb.com/information/how-to/three-way-switch.htm

 

[morris]

could the switch be bad? time for the VOM.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: dakota99
......Three ways can be a pain sometimes, especially when you weren't the one who installed it.



Man if that isn't the truth.

Our last home had several light fixtures that were controlled by 4-way switching. On two of them, I attempted to replace the 1950's 4-ways with new ones. I had the travelers so screwed up I had to have my brother come over and straighten them out for me.

Joel

 

[barlowc]

Originally Posted By: morris
could the switch be bad? time for the VOM.

That's what I'm wondering and may pick up one to at least rule that out as a variable.

 

[barlowc]

OP update: So I picked up a new switch to try, just to rule that variable out. And when I went to disconnect the existing switch, the problem was right there staring me in the face. Somehow I had screwed the ground wire to the wrong terminal. Instead of the green screw, I'd connected it to the one of the black ones. Duh! I can't tell you how many times I had reviewed the connections previously and overlooked what was so obvious.

 

[morris]

at lest the house didnt burn down. i wander how many houses, and lifes the man that invented the cur-cit breaker saved?