0W-20 vs 5W-20

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
I seriously am starting to understand why some menufacturers want their own specifications (like Dexos) as opposed to relying on API service grades.

The differences in oils are rather enormous to say the least which makes for really confusing problems.


It only gets worse when you mix and max other specifications. A 0w-30 SN/GF-5 is certainly not the same as 0w-30 GC with its performance ACEA and manufacturers' specifications. The viscosity grades are fine if one reads the fine print, i.e. the other specs. SN/GF-5? SN only? Dual rated? ACEA A1/B1 or A3/B3? If someone know what their engine specifies, there isn't a lot of risk of accidentally choosing Petro-Canada 0w-30 instead of GC 0w-30 in a European application. Yes, it could be easier, but there will always be differences and mutually exclusive specifications.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
A good example of the "Autobahn syndrome" as I will now call it was an example recently cited by Trav which spoke of the Prius IIRC which had dual recommendations for use in Germany. One was 0w30 if the car was to see a majority of highway (Autobahn) usage, the other was 0w20 if the primary usage profile was to be around town.

In North America nobody can drive like German on their Autobahn, except few who take their vehicles to a track.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
A good example of the "Autobahn syndrome" as I will now call it was an example recently cited by Trav which spoke of the Prius IIRC which had dual recommendations for use in Germany. One was 0w30 if the car was to see a majority of highway (Autobahn) usage, the other was 0w20 if the primary usage profile was to be around town.

In North America nobody can drive like German on their Autobahn, except few who take their vehicles to a track.


I know. Did I not make that clear in my post? I thought I had.....

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
If you're suggesting I should trust a guy's opinion because he comes here and says he's an engineer? No. I listen but I expect people to show their work before its analyzed and a hypothesis is formed.

Shannow has been on here for over 10 years and he has many times proven his engineering knowledge. You maybe haven't been viewing these forums long enought to see it.

 

[RiceCake]

Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
If you're suggesting I should trust a guy's opinion because he comes here and says he's an engineer? No. I listen but I expect people to show their work before its analyzed and a hypothesis is formed.

Shannow has been on here for over 10 years and he has many times proven his engineering knowledge. You maybe haven't been viewing these forums long enought to see it.


Yeah, as a guy who moderates forums bigger then this one I can tell you one thing for certain; the longer someone's been on a forum has nothing to do with their credibility. Even if you step a professional engineer with a masters in mechanical engineering who works directly with the Society of Automotive Engineers directly in front of me I'm not taking what "he says" as being absolute. Give me numbers on paper, show your work, do what gets beaten into you constantly in school.

Truth be told if you find someone that qualified they'll say the same thing about wanting the work not the answer. Its really offensive when a lack of evidence is somehow supplanted by "they've been here a long time and I think I know them so they must be right, stop trying to challenge it by asking for figures."

I trust nothing but the facts on the books, if you don't have that I can appreciate your opinion but thats all it is...and if you'd read back you'd realize someone elaborated on Shannow's stance and I actually concur with it.

 

[Shannow]

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1212576&page=3

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1212576&page=3


Great thread! God I miss Gary

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Yeah, as a guy who moderates forums bigger then this one I can tell you one thing for certain...


And we're supposed to take your word on that ?

On a faceless forum ?

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Yeah, as a guy who moderates forums bigger then this one I can tell you one thing for certain...


And we're supposed to take your word on that ?

On a faceless forum ?


Touché!

OTOH, he does have a style reminiscent of a certain BITOG moderator who shall remain nameless.

 

[RiceCake]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Yeah, as a guy who moderates forums bigger then this one I can tell you one thing for certain...


And we're supposed to take your word on that ?

On a faceless forum ?


And I get criticized when I want empirical evidence because I don't believe you're an engineer just because people here claim you are.

Success! You understand my position exactly.

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
I don't believe you're an engineer just because people here claim you are.


Not taking things at face value - I think you're going to fit in just fine in this community.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Shannow
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1212576&page=3


Great thread! God I miss Gary

Me too and that was the main thread I had in mind when the question of Shannow's engineering knowledge came up. That thread had a good mix of contributors who were interested in learning and sharing what they know. Personalities in this thread and many others lately related to viscosity, foul up the threads. But on the bright side, the OP's question did get answered by Trav linking us to friendly_jacet's thread. Success!

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
If you're suggesting I should trust a guy's opinion because he comes here and says he's an engineer? No. I listen but I expect people to show their work before its analyzed and a hypothesis is formed.

Shannow has been on here for over 10 years and he has many times proven his engineering knowledge. You maybe haven't been viewing these forums long enought to see it.


Yeah, as a guy who moderates forums bigger then this one I can tell you one thing for certain; the longer someone's been on a forum has nothing to do with their credibility. Even if you step a professional engineer with a masters in mechanical engineering who works directly with the Society of Automotive Engineers directly in front of me I'm not taking what "he says" as being absolute. Give me numbers on paper, show your work, do what gets beaten into you constantly in school.

Truth be told if you find someone that qualified they'll say the same thing about wanting the work not the answer. Its really offensive when a lack of evidence is somehow supplanted by "they've been here a long time and I think I know them so they must be right, stop trying to challenge it by asking for figures."

I trust nothing but the facts on the books, if you don't have that I can appreciate your opinion but thats all it is...and if you'd read back you'd realize someone elaborated on Shannow's stance and I actually concur with it.


Perhaps you should click on Shannow's name and review his posts. Then you can judge for yourself whether or not he's an engineer. (But if you're not an engineer yourself, what intellectual basis do you have to make a determination?)

 

[4ever4d]

With all the talk of "thin" and 0w oils being the future when will 5w oils be obsolete and why? Not complaining as i have been entertaining the idea of using 0w-30 in the Nissan.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
With all the talk of "thin" and 0w oils being the future when will 5w oils be obsolete and why?


I suppose when more manufacturers allow it and they meet more specifications (i.e. dexos1), and people don't complain about using synthetics where conventionals will do (i.e. me), then we will. From a technical standpoint, there isn't a lot of reason why an SN/GF-5 0w-30 wouldn't work in just about any modern 5w-30 or 10w-30 application.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Garak
From a technical standpoint, there isn't a lot of reason why an SN/GF-5 0w-30 wouldn't work in just about any modern 5w-30 or 10w-30 application.


True, and would probably work well in any gasoline 0W20 or 5W20 application too.

 

[Garak]

But your fuel mileage and power will drop by 50% and you'll spin bearings from overly thick oils, not to mention that the ECU will phone home and void your warranty on the spot.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Garak
But your fuel mileage and power will drop by 50% and you'll spin bearings from overly thick oils, not to mention that the ECU will phone home and void your warranty on the spot.

You almost nailed it. You missed you'll increase start up wear one hundred fold.

 

[Garak]

That part goes without saying.

 

[Hyde244]

Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
With all the talk of "thin" and 0w oils being the future when will 5w oils be obsolete and why? Not complaining as i have been entertaining the idea of using 0w-30 in the Nissan.
Considering GM still uses 5w30 for their dexos 1 specs, 5w will probably be around for longer. What is more plausible of vanishing first is 10w, which is required less as newer cars hit the road.