Potential "experiment" here

[TallPaul]

I got some free (with rebate) Quaker State 10w30. Since I am near the end of the second rinse on my Auto Rx and the oil is looking fairly nasty, I thought the free oil might make a good extra rinse for 100 or 500 miles.

Anyway, I normally run 10w40 (hot psi of 44), but thought it would be interesting to see what 10w30 gives in oil pressure. Should be the same as when I ran 5w30 a couple years ago (35 psi), but the experiment comes in in that I have put 12 oz off Maxlife Engine Protector on the 10w40 and got no increase in oil pressure that should correspond with the thickening effect from adding the 100 cSt (per company data sheet) MLEP (BTW, Synpower Oil Treatment has about the same listed viscostiy, so the results should also apply to it). I suspect it is at the pump relief valve pressure and so won't show, but if I put the MLEP on 10w30 I should see an effect.

Running the viscosity calculator on it (QS 10w30 is 10.5 cSt), I get 5.5 qts QS 10w30 to 15 oz MLEP for a 12.6 cSt. That is slightly over halfway to the 10w40 (14 cSt) so I would expect a pressure rise to around 40 psi.

So in about a week I plan to drain and refill with the 10w30. Then I will run if for a few days to establish the baseline hot oil pressure before I dump the MLEP in to see what the rise is.

Last benefit is that the MLEP should coat the internals with moly that should stay for the next oci?

Thoughts, commments?

Otherwise, I could just save the QS for the motorhome which takes 10w30.

 

[Gary Allan]

It would be interesting to see the results. I'm only wondering on how much moly uptake is possible in that number of miles.

When I get better funded, I'd really like to do some moly uptake experiments to see how much is really plating/uptake ..and how much stays in suspension and how much ends up being kicked out. (another big discussion/debate I'm sure)


OTOH- a bottle of the engine protector is not all that much ($$) in the "fun" factor of experimentation. I mean what are you giving up ..half a pizza???

[ February 20, 2005, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[TallPaul]

Oil: Free
Value Tech filter (not Ecore): $2
MLEP: $3

Total $5

Could go more miles, I guess.

Only thing, I get 54 psi cold, so why doesn't the MLEP show a rise on the 10w40. Maybe my theory is correct, that alone it is thick, but mixed in it acts differently and has negligible effect on viscosity. Will see.

 

[Gary Allan]

Is 54 the highest that you see ..even as you get up in speed when cold w/40 weight? If so ..then I agree that you're probably limited by the pump.

$5 ..that's too much fun for the money!!

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Is 54 the highest that you see ..even as you get up in speed when cold w/40 weight? If so ..then I agree that you're probably limited by the pump.

$5 ..that's too much fun for the money!!

---

Yep, around 54 to 56 when really cold out. That is max. Hot max is 44 with 10w40 and that comes in at 2000 rpm and doesn't climb any higer even up to 3600 rpm. Anyway, I will do it and report back here in a couple weeks or so. Cheap fun.

Now I have to go back out and shovel more snow. 3 to 4 inches down a couple more coming.

 

[TallPaul]

Well, the Quaker State is in. I put the whole 6 quarts and will draw off 15 oz when it is time to dump in the Maxlife Engine Protector.

I am really glad I quit the 2nd Auto Rx rinse at 2000 miles. The oil was looking filthy and I just inspected the filter (FL1A) and the paper elemment when held to a light was about 90% opaque. Also there was more semi-dissolved sludge than the last time. I think this QS dino rinse will be a good thing.

I will say that looking down the filler hole there is still a lot of crud, but it is clearly better than it was, though no shiny, like new metal.

Anyway, haven't driven it yet to get the baseline oil pressure, but probably will run it a couple hundred miles before adding the MLEP and then 200 to 600 more.

 

[Gary Allan]

TallPaul,

Any chance of you doing a couple of cheapo UOAs ..one after a couple of hours ..and one when you dump it to see how much moly uptake occured??? I think Stinky still has cheap ($12 each) for a little while.

My wear metal onset testing is on hold and my bypass valve test is in formation (assembling parts) ..otherwise the mega dose of SynPower Oil treatment was going to be used as a measured contaminant where I'd add it ...drive a few miles ....sample ...drive a 1000 (or 2000 or 3000) more samples to see any potential uptake ...then drive another 1000 miles ...sample ..dose it ...drive a few ...sample ..and so on to see if there is an apparent difference between uptake and the oil's abilty to suspend elements.

 

[TallPaul]

Interesting thought Gary. I have 8 prepaid ANA oil analysis kits left. They cost me $8.50 each including mail in postage on a quantity order. I would be willing to do it, but need to double check that the MLEP does have a lot of moly.

Then if I understand you correctly I should 1) analyze the oil after the MLEP is well mixed in (couple hours) and one at drain time (about 600 miles after). The reduction in moly in the second analysis would presumably indicate uptake.

Only the pain of the first sample as I have to drain a quart before capturing the sample, but with Fram Sure Drain it won't be too much trouble. I will catch the first quart in an empthy oil bottle and then pour it back in.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

Then if I understand you correctly I should 1) analyze the oil after the MLEP is well mixed in (couple hours) and one at drain time (about 600 miles after). The reduction in moly in the second analysis would presumably indicate uptake.

---

That was my thought. MLEP doesn't have as much as moly as the Oil Treament so uptake should be easier to see. I mean what's plus or minus 20 or 30 ppm in over 3000??

Is this MLEP?

The Oil Treatment

Although ..I wonder if 600 miles is too little to see anything ..

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Is this MLEP?

---

Yes so mixed into my crankcase I would average about 40 ppm, so maybe not worth testing. Now if I did the Synpower, it would surely be worthwhile, although I was sort of getting rid of the MLEP stuff. Trying to use up my additives and go additive free, except maybe a wee bit of Redline per fill.

The Synpower has two different VOAs with widely different additive levels indicated and the Valvoline tech sheet has a third different value, but it appears that there is a lot more moly in the Synpower OT, so the discrepencies don't matter if I were going to run the analysis on it after mixing for the baseline.

Well, Synpower OT is $4 so I don't know if I want to go that route unless there is a lot more interest here. So far it appears to be you and me. Well I have about a week to decide yet.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, it's on one of my lists of things to do when I get done the filter test ...so sooner or later it will happen ...not a biggie.

 

[TallPaul]

Wait, I do have half a bottle of the Synpower OT. That alone ought to get me at least 100 ppm moly--2.5 times better than the whole bottle of MLEP. Maybe I will put both in.

It is a 6 qt sump and the Synpower says add whole bottle to 4-6 qts, so should be okay, and it's only for a while.

 

[wavinwayne]

Sort of

, but can TallPaul or Gary Allan please explain to me the benefits of both Synpower Oil Treatment & Maxlife Engine Protector.

I see them every time I'm in WallyWorld's oil section & have always wondered if they were snake oil. I guess they're not.

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

---

Originally posted by wavinwayne:
Sort of

, but can TallPaul or Gary Allan please explain to me the benefits of both Synpower Oil Treatment & Maxlife Engine Protector.

---

There are a few threads in the VOA forum that have a lot of good info. On balance, it appears the Synpower Oil Treatment is very good stuff and probably to be preferred to the Maxlife by a wide margin. Some of the site experts think one ounce per quart is a good add level for either--pretty cost effective anyway.

 

[TallPaul]

Well my experiment ended before it started. In spite of the 5w30 having run hot pressure of 35 psi, the Quaker State dino 10w30 is getting about 42 psi, almost what I was getting with the 10w40 (44 psi).

Only thing I can figure is that the oil pump relief valve must have been sludged so it would not close all the way and my recent Auto Rx must have cleaned it enough to close better, thereby boosting the 30 weight's oil pressure by reducing or eliminating the bleed off.

I ran it 23 miles mostly freeway in 36F ambient today, half hour stop, then another 16 miles. Lowest it got was about 41 but often got back up to 44. Looks like I can run 10w30 in this beast now, perhaps thanks to AutoRx. Will really need to try the 10w30 in summer to get a true handle on in, but it seems like a pretty good deal.

 

[Gary Allan]

dub-ya dub-ya ...the SynPower Oil Treatment is allegedly cram pact with MOLY (and other stuff) ..highly covetted by some of our membership. It's one of the primary AW additives in RL oil. Many use RL just as an additive for its moly.

I actually bought it (6 bottles

) with the intent (hopfully) of using it as an "oil particle retention marker" in some experiment that I hope to get off the ground after I do our "when does an oil filter's bypass valve open" test. I would add it ...let it spin around for a while and allow max moly uptake ....test ....dump more in ..short spin ...UOA ...500 miles later see how much moly is still in the oil ...etc...etc... etc..

It would be preferred to using finely ground Fe as a marker

 

[TallPaul]

Yes either the Synpower OT or the Redline are excellent additive IMHO. I don't think the Maxlife Engine Protector is probably that great though.

I guess the only right way to do my experiment with viscosity is to send virgin samples of straight oil and oil mixed with the Synpower Oil Treatment. Should I? What else am I to do with 8 UOA kits. Besides I think I would like to try this new sponsor, Butler Catapillar Labs someday.

 

[Gary Allan]

I would imagine this would be the way to go to truly determine the viscosity. You would "box" your total additions (much like "boxing" multiple gallons of custom mixed paints to assure one uniform color) and then send that off.

It would be a decent way to check your calculations

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
I would imagine this would be the way to go to truly determine the viscosity. You would "box" your total additions (much like "boxing" multiple gallons of custom mixed paints to assure one uniform color) and then send that off.

It would be a decent way to check your calculations

---

Only I wonder if the Synpower stuff will mix well into the oil when cold. Maybe if I set them on the furnace humidifier for a day first (visions of heat-blown-open oil bottles splattering the furnace room--ah, the house does smell nice

--wife not agree

).

 

[Gary Allan]

Do the old "rinse out the bottle with thinner stuff trick" (visions of Maxwell Smart)

TallPaul - you really do need to get a good set of Pyrex beakers to play with you know (visions of mad chemist)

I imagine that two clean gallon containers would allow you to mix the stuff once you used the original oil (quarts) to dilute the MLEP that didn't pour out (half filled with oil-shake-dump-repeat).

Anyway ..whatever comes out ...is whatever comes out and as long as what you have left is mixed back and forth a good bit...it should be good ..or so I would reason