Would like to have your opinion on this additive!

[MolaKule]

Start-Up wear is overblown and has been in the news because certain oil companies would like to increase sales by diggin into a market niche using scare tactics on unsuspecting consumers.

 

[Spector]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:
Testimonials are way too subjective to have any merit.

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I agree, however, as you know so much of this site are testimonials on RX,FP, LC 131, Various brands of oil, many backed by UOA but 90 % testimonials. really hard to distinguish if a product really does no harm without trying it first but as noted above, why bother when todays oil products do the job for 200,000 miles. It took RX how many years before it was accepted as a not being snake oil on this site????

 

[Gary Allan]

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Most engine wear occurs at cold startup and in this area, even a 0W oil is not perfect and maybe some aftermarket additive, especially solid lubricants that "cling" to cylinder walls may be beneficial. I don't know and this is why I ask questions.

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I believe that most of this "start up" wear is unavoidable. As has been well documented, the wear from start up to full thermal saturation is higher. That is, thanks to our esteemed Dr. Haas, we've seen studies that show increased measurable wear for the first 20 minutes of operation. This, I fully believe, is inherant to the reciprocating engine and the ill fittment of piston/rings in the transition from starting temp to saturation where the piston is no longer absorbing heat and is a transparent thermal conductor of it ..rejecting it as it is applied.

I don't think that there is a magic bullet for this "wear of distortion". Your cylinders will all eventually be oval shaped.


But ..one has to wonder why these additives are conspicously avaiable in Europe ..but not the USA ..where one would reason that, given our worship of the machine, they would have a decent market. While in Europe, where diposible cash for such thing would not follow the continental propensity for "form following function" teutonic models. That is, they don't appear to waste money on crap that doesn't work.

 

[kilou]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:

But ..one has to wonder why these additives are conspicously avaiable in Europe ..but not the USA ..where one would reason that, given our worship of the machine, they would have a decent market. While in Europe, where diposible cash for such thing would not follow the continental propensity for "form following function" teutonic models. That is, they don't appear to waste money on crap that doesn't work.

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Maybe the US market is much more regulated than in Europe. In US you can go to the court for almost anything. This is not the case in Europe so maybe the Snake oils manufacturers have more chance to succeed in Europe

 

[Gary Allan]

Certain things don't make it to the USA for various reasons, kilou. You can get Modine DONUT® oil coolers anywhere in Europe. In the USA they are limited to OEM. You have a bunch of exotic oils that just aren't available here. As far as snake oils in Europe ..you aren't a consumer market like we are ..even all of you combined. Most of it is controlled and internalized whenever possible (among the common market).

If snake oil would sell in Europe ..snake oil would be there. There are a number of distractions and indulgences that Europe appears to have no interest in ...or some "higher power" restricts our/your access to them across the Atlantic in both directions.

This product is one of them.

 

[MolaKule]

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I believe that most of this "start up" wear is unavoidable.

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True, but it is minimized by the AW additives left on the surfaces after shutdown. One of the primary purposes of the AW additive(s)is to minimize wear until the oil film transistions from boundary lubrication to hydrodynamic lubrication.

 

[kilou]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:

quote:

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I believe that most of this "start up" wear is unavoidable.

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True, but it is minimized by the AW additives left on the surfaces after shutdown. One of the primary purposes of the AW additive(s)is to minimize wear until the oil film transistions from boundary lubrication to hydrodynamic lubrication.

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This is why such thing as the BN (if it works as advertised) would really lower startup wear. As I understood, the support fluid of the additive is ester based, pretty vague concept but ester is what makes Castrol Magnatec (and synthetic oils) cling to cylinder walls after shutdown no? If the BN are in colloidal suspension inside this ester fluid, the particles may be left on the metal so that wear is reduced at startup?

 

[MolaKule]

This is assuming the BN particles are more polar than the esters and there is no competition for the surfaces.

 

[JHZR2]

I would have great fear of colloidal stability in any sort of media, aqueous or in our case non-aqueous for these tiny particles. I would fear that a lot of surface modification or stabilizers would be necessary to keep this stuff at such small particle sizes, without agglomerating, even in high shear areas of an engine. What would this do to the overall oil chemistry? I think DLVO theory comes into play with such tiny dispersions, and can do some screwey stuff with small particle size suspensions. But Im not a specialist on such things.

JMH