VSP 5W30, 6,049 miles, 2012 Hyundai Elantra Ltd.

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MI on Oil 6,049

Mi on Unit 18,288

Sample Date 12/5/12

Make Up Oil Added 0



ALUMINUM 4

CHROMIUM 0

IRON 11

COPPER 4

LEAD 0

TIN 0

MOLYBDENUM 10

NICKEL 0

MANGANESE 2

SILVER 0

TITANIUM 0

POTASSIUM 1

BORON 1

SILICON 19

SODIUM 242

CALCIUM 2281

MAGNESIUM 13

PHOSPHORUS 683

ZINC 817

BARIUM 0



SUS Viscosity @ 210F 55.8

cSt Viscosity @ 100C 9.02

Flashpoint F 380

Fuel %
Antifreeze % 0

Water % 0

Insolubles % 0.3

TBN 2.7


Comments from Blackstone: Thanks for the notes. It looks like the even mix of highway and city driving has done well for your Elantra, based
on this first analysis. Universal averages show typical wear for the Hyundai 1.8L engine after about 5,100 miles of oil
use. You've gone about a thousand miles more on this fill of oil, yet most metals are well below average, and even iron
is only a couple parts per million above the normal levels. That's fine, since iron is expected to track with mileage. The
slightly low viscosity isn't an issue, and the TBN is good at 2.7, so try 8,000 miles next oil. Nice report!
 
SN Version.

6,049 miles, about 5 mos.

Was considering switching to PP but I'm quite pleased with this report. Planning to stay under 7.5k oci's while under warranty.
 
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Originally Posted By: ruxCYtable
SN Version.

6,049 miles, about 5 mos.

Was considering switching to PP but I'm quite pleased with this report. Planning to stay under 7.5k oci's while under warranty.


Sounds like you found a winner for sure! Glad to see an good tbn after 6k miles on Ashland product. If you do get a chance, I wonder how Maxlife would perform for the same interval ?
 
Nice results. FYI, their MaxLife 5w30 now meets dexos 1. That's another option.
 
Are you guys talking about the syn blend MaxLife or the full syn version? I'd be glad to give it a go but I've got a small stash of Synpower to get through first.
 
Originally Posted By: ruxCYtable
Are you guys talking about the syn blend MaxLife or the full syn version? I'd be glad to give it a go but I've got a small stash of Synpower to get through first.


They synblend meets dexos 1.

If regular maxlife meets dexos 1... Will nextgen maxlife meet it?
 
Typically average report; wear metals are in control and other parameters are fine. Knowing the "universal averages" is very helpful, but it's not the whole story. There are likely some imbedded abonormal points that have not been removed, thereby affecting the real "normal" values, and you also don't know the sigmas for your metals. However, I'd say that given your actual wear data here (and a singular UOA is not anything but a snapshot in time), everything looks very nice.

If you're going to stay at/under 7.5k miles, there are likely several less expensive products that would return this same kind of performance.

The vis dropped, but not dangerously. Just pointing it out so that folks are aware that a vis drop does not automatically imply a wear increase.

So - good for your engine; bad for your wallet.
 
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Originally Posted By: RPMster
How's the MPG so far? Are you able to get up around 40 MPG on the highway?
I don't get it on many extended highway trips. The best I have done on a 250 mile round trip was 37, but that was in the dead of winter so I was happy with it.

I typically get 30-31 mpg in mixed driving.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3

So - good for your engine; bad for your wallet.
I like to save money as much as the next guy, but let's be real here. We're talking a difference of about $13 over five or six months. If a guy can't afford that, he probably can't afford a car.
 
Originally Posted By: ruxCYtable
Originally Posted By: dnewton3

So - good for your engine; bad for your wallet.
I like to save money as much as the next guy, but let's be real here. We're talking a difference of about $13 over five or six months. If a guy can't afford that, he probably can't afford a car.


So you're advocating waste as a means of what? Self-approved congratulations?

$13/OCI saved over many years adds up, does it not? How long do you intend to own the vehicle?
You see- this is a catch-22 situation here:
You either do not intend to own the car for very long, and therefore the small outlay of $13 per OCI is not a large sum of money, but then I would ask why use synthetics for something you're not intending to keep?
Or ...
You do intend to keep it a long time, in which case the $13 savings over many years adds up to a lot of cash saved.

Your 7.5k mile OCIs do not put the synthetic at an advantage, nor the use of conventional at a disadvantage. When performance is equal, why pay for wasted potential?

This UOA is nothing out of the ordinary; the results are (very desirably) average. Yet you spend more money to get there. How is that a good decision, again?

And don't for one second give me that tired old line about synthetics being "cheap insurance". There is already a lot of reserve capacity in a decent conventional oil; 7.5k miles isn't a strecth for ANY lube nowdays, especially in today's clean-running, well-made equipment. Just what are you "insuring" against by using a synthetic for 7.5k mile OCIs, anyway?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: ruxCYtable
Originally Posted By: dnewton3

So - good for your engine; bad for your wallet.
I like to save money as much as the next guy, but let's be real here. We're talking a difference of about $13 over five or six months. If a guy can't afford that, he probably can't afford a car.


So you're advocating waste as a means of what? Self-approved congratulations?

$13/OCI saved over many years adds up, does it not? How long do you intend to own the vehicle?
You see- this is a catch-22 situation here:
You either do not intend to own the car for very long, and therefore the small outlay of $13 per OCI is not a large sum of money, but then I would ask why use synthetics for something you're not intending to keep?
Or ...
You do intend to keep it a long time, in which case the $13 savings over many years adds up to a lot of cash saved.

Your 7.5k mile OCIs do not put the synthetic at an advantage, nor the use of conventional at a disadvantage. When performance is equal, why pay for wasted potential?

This UOA is nothing out of the ordinary; the results are (very desirably) average. Yet you spend more money to get there. How is that a good decision, again?

And don't for one second give me that tired old line about synthetics being "cheap insurance". There is already a lot of reserve capacity in a decent conventional oil; 7.5k miles isn't a strecth for ANY lube nowdays, especially in today's clean-running, well-made equipment. Just what are you "insuring" against by using a synthetic for 7.5k mile OCIs, anyway?




I would have to disagree with that. Some newer engines destroy the oil at 5K. Now does that mean it wont give statically normal wear values, maybe so maybe not. But when you have very low flash points, TBNs, and viscosities, who determines when the lube is done? Even with low wear numbers couldnt the lube be compromised in other aspects?

I think one thing that is often over looked is people use the its "cheap insurance" line because TO THEM its cheap insurance and makes them feel good. Some people view UOAs as a hobby as they do OCI, maybe to them its not about a ROI or investments but rather a hobby. I think where people get upset is you saying they are not making wise investments in their oil choice due to a few dollars. Many people smoke, chew, or drink and waste more than $13 a week. Their car, their choice, their money? Just looking for a good discussion as usual by pointing out others view points.
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: ruxCYtable
Originally Posted By: dnewton3

So - good for your engine; bad for your wallet.
I like to save money as much as the next guy, but let's be real here. We're talking a difference of about $13 over five or six months. If a guy can't afford that, he probably can't afford a car.


So you're advocating waste as a means of what? Self-approved congratulations?

$13/OCI saved over many years adds up, does it not? How long do you intend
to own the vehicle?
You see- this is a catch-22 situation here:
You either do not intend to own the car for very long, and therefore the small outlay of $13 per OCI is not a large sum of money, but then I would ask why use synthetics for something you're not intending to keep?
Or ...
You do intend to keep it a long time, in which case the $13 savings over many
years adds up to a lot of cash saved.

Your 7.5k mile OCIs do not put the synthetic at an advantage, nor the use of conventional at a disadvantage. When performance is equal, why pay for wasted potential?

This UOA is nothing out of the ordinary; the results are (very desirably) average. Yet you spend more money to get there. How is that a good decision, again?

And don't for one second give me that tired old line about synthetics being "cheap insurance". There is already a lot of reserve capacity in a decent conventional oil; 7.5k miles isn't a strecth for ANY lube nowdays, especially in today's clean-running, well-made equipment. Just what are you "insuring" against by using a synthetic for 7.5k mile OCIs, anyway?


I would have to disagree with that. Some newer engines destroy the oil at 5K. Now does that mean it wont give statically normal wear values, maybe so maybe not. But when you have very low flash points, TBNs, and viscosities, who determines when the lube is done? Even with low wear numbers couldnt the lube be compromised in other aspects?

I think one thing that is often over looked is people use the its "cheap
insurance" line because TO THEM its cheap insurance and makes them feel good. Some people view UOAs as a hobby as they do OCI, maybe to them its not about a ROI or investments but rather a hobby. I think where people get upset is you saying they are not making wise investments in their oil choice due to a few dollars. Many people smoke, chew, or drink and waste more than $13 a week. Their car, their choice, their money? Just looking for a good discussion as usual by pointing out others view points.



Your right. People are wasteful in many ways however I like that dnewton posts like this. It's a reality check and may or may notteach people something.
He points out and demolishes oil myths,and does it in a clear and concise manner.
In no way do I see his comments in any way BUT informative. He is blunt,to the point and has data to back up his comments.
He points out that this uoa is average,which is a good thing,and this average report could have been had with an oil that costs less.
And 13 bucks is peanuts,but 13 bucks added up over the term of ownership could become significant.
I don't care how a guy spends his money,nor do I think dnewton cares either,he merely points out that a person could save some money by doing something a bit differently,which sounds like a favour to me,even if it doesn't feel like one.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: ruxCYtable
Originally Posted By: dnewton3

So - good for your engine; bad for your wallet.
I like to save money as much as the next guy, but let's be real here. We're talking a difference of about $13 over five or six months. If a guy can't afford that, he probably can't afford a car.


So you're advocating waste as a means of what? Self-approved congratulations?

$13/OCI saved over many years adds up, does it not? How long do you intend to own the vehicle?
You see- this is a catch-22 situation here:
You either do not intend to own the car for very long, and therefore the small outlay of $13 per OCI is not a large sum of money, but then I would ask why use synthetics for something you're not intending to keep?
Or ...
You do intend to keep it a long time, in which case the $13 savings over many years adds up to a lot of cash saved.

Your 7.5k mile OCIs do not put the synthetic at an advantage, nor the use of conventional at a disadvantage. When performance is equal, why pay for wasted potential?

This UOA is nothing out of the ordinary; the results are (very desirably) average. Yet you spend more money to get there. How is that a good decision, again?

And don't for one second give me that tired old line about synthetics being "cheap insurance". There is already a lot of reserve capacity in a decent conventional oil; 7.5k miles isn't a strecth for ANY lube nowdays, especially in today's clean-running, well-made equipment. Just what are you "insuring" against by using a synthetic for 7.5k mile OCIs, anyway?


I just said $13 is no big deal. Sorry that ruined your day. You're a real peach.
 
dnewton3 - I totally get your focus (obsession?) on waste / using what is appropriate but:

Many people report a smoother, quieter engine with synthetic. There is a thread right now talking about the effect QSUD has in quietening engines and I had that experience when moving from QS syn blend to QS full syn in a Lexus.

Isn't it conceivable that after spending tens of thousands of dollars on vehicles and choosing them and maintaining them with a partial objective of having a smooth engine, that $13 is a small price to pay for some noticeable smoothness improvement?

I understand that synthetic has a small impact on fuel economy. It is often characterized as miniscule, perhaps in the range of $13 over 7500 miles perhaps?

Toyota for a while has allowed longer oci on synthetics. While you may choose your dino oil carefully and do UOAs (which has just offset the $13 extra cost of synthetic), others don't. So the extra cost of synthetic allows them to go the longer oci with confidence and without spending time and money on a UOA.

Another point is what happens if you decide to go somewhere extra cold eg the mountains for skiing or what if cold weather comes to you in a way it never has before (as a statistical guru you may have an opinion on whether this is more likely than before). If you have synthetic, you're in better shape.

And lastly, there are other choices and decisions far more impactful on waste than dino vs synthetic. Putting in PEA cleaner into a relatively young, low mileage car that had had too many short trips, was one of the best investments in terms of ROI that I've ever made. (Yes you could put the $13 saved into PEA every oci, but my point is that if you are concerned about waste, there are a whole bunch of things more meaningful than whether to choose dino or synthetic (and btw I do know you advocate using a bike for short trips))
 
First and foremost, any person really needs to know about their own unique equipment. There are always going to be outlying concerns about some engines that are sludgers, some transmissions that don't self-lubricate well, etc. But those are not the norm. And to the best of my knowledge, this specific vehicle does not have any traits that would make it a concern for gross fuel dilution, sludge, coolant intrusion, etc. So my following comments are predicated on this OP and his vehicle.

All I try to point out is that folks often approach the entire lube topic with emotion, and they tend to ingore facts. Facts that they even PAY for, above and beyond what is needed.

So why pay for a UOA, that confirms one is wasting cash on a product that does NOT distinguish itself above an alternative, only to ignore the very data you paid money for? That is waste heaped upon waste!

I have ZERO problem with people doing what they want to do. What they Want to do. What they WANT to do. But that has nothing to do with what they need to get their equipment to safely survive hundreds of thousands of miles, based upon any particular use pattern and OCI plan.

I have no qualms with emotions; we all have them, including me. I do many, many things that satisfy myself emotionally. But I don't try to obscure the "feelings" by using some tired, worn-out, misplaced addage like "it's cheap insurance". I own many guns; it makes me happy to do so. But I don't try to pass them off as "needs", nor do I try to convince other people they "need" more guns, just because I have an emotional affinity for them. I might be able to reasonably argue why someone might need one gun; I cannot find cause to justify why someone needs nearly three dozen. I am a grown-up; I can recognize and acknowledge the difference between wants and needs.

This UOA proves, with evidence he paid for with his own money, that he is wasting money on using syns for his application. If he chooses to ignore the information he paid for, that is his perogative. But that does NOT invalidate my two points; he's wasting money on lube and he's wasting money by ignoring the data he paid for.

Just because many folks don't like my candor, does not mean I'm incorrect. I might be objectionable, but I'm not wrong. I state positions, and then I back them up with clear evidence. In this particular situation, I am utilizing the very data the OP paid for, as proof that this lube returned completely average results and did not prove itself "better" by any means in any way than a lesser cost alternative.

And no measure of "feelings" will change those facts.


Let me completely flip this on it's head, and change topics, but I'll come back around to the total concept at the end. This will touch home, too closely, to some of you I suspect.

Consider if I were an alcoholic ...
I tell you I "need" another drink. And not only another drink, but I "need" some high-end expensive scotch. Do I really need that premium drink, or do I just want that high-end stuff? From a purely bio-medical standpoint, my body is craving the alcohol, in any form; it is an addiction. And further, as my health deteriorates, I see the doctor; he tells me I'm killing myself by poisoning my liver. So, I'm buying high-end liquor to satisfy an emotional desire, and then ignoring advice that I paid for. Do I "need" the high-end premium scotch, when any cheap rot gut would have the same effect? Do I "better" myself by ignoring the medical advice I paid for?

Sound familiar?

Don't we, as BITOGers, have a responsibility to synthetic junkies to call out their wasted product and wasted information?

I have no problem if some guy wants to waste his money on whatever he chooses. But those of you who protect the addict are not helping him. And you're not helping those who come to this site as newbies or lurkers, looking for good advice. I suspect, in some manner, that it's often synthetic junkies whom protect other synthetic junkies. They "feel" personally attacked when anyone challenges their practice, even when it's not their own UOA that is being discussed. You may believe you're defending him, but in actuality you're hurting him by not being honest. I'm dishing out tough love, and some folks detest me for it. So be it.

There is nothing wrong with the OP doing all this to satisfy his emotional desire; it's not going to kill him or his car, and I have no problem with that. But don't call this anything but what it is; it's waste heaped upon waste. And I would challenge anyone to accurately describe it in any other manner, with proof to back up your claim.
 
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