Marvel Mystery Oil added to oil and gasket leaks

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Used MMO for the first time a few weeks ago. Normally I'm not an "additive guy." Nothing dramatic to report.

I was given a very tired, abused and neglected Ford LGT tractor (Kohler K-Series cast iron engine) that had been sitting outside abandoned for a number of years. It was mildly stuck but came loose with just a little WD40 in the cylinder. Changed the oil did some fuel system repairs and started it up. Runs well but smokes a little and uses oil. I've ran it about three hours and the smoke had been slowing down some but I decided to see if this "legendary" snake oil might have some effect. Put it into the gas AND the oil. In the oil, I used it to thin some 15W40 Rotella to about a 30 grade (calculated based on volume and a blending chart). If the rings are "stuck" they are getting hit from both sides. So far, no changes, but it's only run an hour or so since.


Solvent based snake oils were much safer to use in the older non turbo engines. Modern turbo charged engines need modern oils with a fully functioning add pack and some of them like VW TDI's are very sensitive to the exact oil type. When you add snake oil to a good quality major brand oil, you mess up the way that oil functions and waste your money.

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
MMO has been around so long it may deserve a place in the additive hall of fame!

Skyship loves to make blanket statements about additives, completely ignoring the fact that everyone is different, thus an additive may be appropriate at times.



Interesting, slavery has been around for years aswell, it is still alive and well in West and Central Africa.

So by your logic it should be I some Hall of Fame.

You say Skyship makes blanket statements about addtitives?

I have used additives over the years, Slick 50 when it contained PTFE, have also used ZX1 in many of my cars.

Now neither of these has any particular cleaning properties. And are meant to be in there for the duration of an OCI.

But in this instance I agree with Skyship, as MMO has cleaning properties the. The longer you leave it in there the more likely things are going to get loosened that you don't want loosened.

In the same way as if you ran an aggressive engine flush.

Which from what I have read is to be avoided unless the engine has been treated with one regularly from new, certainly it is considered unwise to use a flush on a neglected engine for reason as detailed by Skyship, blocked oil ways etc.

Not sure I agree about diesel runaways caused by a flush or MMO but is suppose it could be possible.

And I am not just blindly agreeing with somebody from the UK, as you will see I have disagreed with Skyship on several occasions.

Or do you have undeniable evidence that none of things mentioned by Skyship have ever happened?

Erring on the side of caution is not the wrong thing to do, just the cautious thing.

 

[getnpsi]

To over generalize, if you can smell it out of the container, components that are the most harmful/helpful will burn off under normal operation. Several ounces of engine flush after a treatment may still linger in your oil diluted until the next change. I'd be inclined to use a 1/4 dose of flush at a time and leave it in for a short OCI. I think that is part of the beauty of over the counter treatments, they are "dumbed down" so anyone that is dumb, careless, drinking stella etc while wrenching won't ruin their engine doing what they think is something just above regular maintenance.

@skyship ive used harsher chemicals in turbo engines but i sure didn't use 6 quarts of m1 euro with it, it was due for a change anyway or used a blend and drained way under schedule.

Id like to think the people who are trying to make effort to clean crankcase, top ends, pass emission test, stop leaking, whatever aren't stretching their OCI, they are short draining to see if there are results before having to do/pay for expensive work and experience downtime

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Used MMO for the first time a few weeks ago. Normally I'm not an "additive guy." Nothing dramatic to report.

I was given a very tired, abused and neglected Ford LGT tractor (Kohler K-Series cast iron engine) that had been sitting outside abandoned for a number of years. It was mildly stuck but came loose with just a little WD40 in the cylinder. Changed the oil did some fuel system repairs and started it up. Runs well but smokes a little and uses oil. I've ran it about three hours and the smoke had been slowing down some but I decided to see if this "legendary" snake oil might have some effect. Put it into the gas AND the oil. In the oil, I used it to thin some 15W40 Rotella to about a 30 grade (calculated based on volume and a blending chart). If the rings are "stuck" they are getting hit from both sides. So far, no changes, but it's only run an hour or so since.

Jim,
Mostly "lube" and some mild cleaners, MMO is a great add, maybe the best add for that application. I still use it in all my small engines. Have a snow blower that has lasted 30 years. My neighbors watch in awe as "Rusty" carves through 3 foot snowbanks throwing 30 foot rooster tails on the way to dig out their expensive stalled blowers.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
MMO has been around so long it may deserve a place in the additive hall of fame!

Skyship loves to make blanket statements about additives, completely ignoring the fact that everyone is different, thus an additive may be appropriate at times.



Interesting, slavery...thing.


Very entertaining, but you completely ignored the second statement to focus on the obviously facetious one. There was no 'logic' implied there, only inferred.

There are other excellent additive products as well. IMO Kreen from Kano Labs is the best one we have used EVER. Over 40 years of experience operating fleet trucks in the most arduous duty cycle on the planet have convinced me of its effectiveness. No single oil will EVER be right for every car on the planet.

You can use whatever you want. But using some of your own so-called 'logic' a bit less selectively would help you to understand the second part of my post.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No single oil will EVER be right for every car on the planet.



+1 And there are times when products for cleaning an engine are necessary, or certainly worth a try before tearing down an engine for cleaning or parts replacement. Kreen and MMO are two of the better ones IMO.

 

[nitehawk55]

Unless an engine is really dirty due to neglect the use of MMO, Kreen or any other such additives is of no use and in some cases could be harmfull to seals , gaskets or dislodging large amounts of crud and blocking an oil gallery leading to severe engine damage . The only time I would think of using an additive is a last try at salvaging an engine beyond the cost of repairing or long term use . If an engine has got to the point that you feel it needs additives then that engine probably has issues that are beyond what a mechanic in a can/bottle can really help without doing an actual repair .

Why a lot of fellows on here insist they need an additional additive on top of using a good modern day motor oil and filter in a perfectly good running engine is beyond reason .

 

[SteveSRT8]

All the reasons are clearly outlined at various points in the thread. Might want to read it first.

And BTW, we are not insisting YOU use any additives. Not at all.

 

[nitehawk55]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
All the reasons are clearly outlined at various points in the thread. Might want to read it first.

And BTW, we are not insisting YOU use any additives. Not at all.


Read my post again , I didn't say anyone was insisting others use additives or anything else , it's one's own choice but a lot on here feel THEY need to use additives .
I was a certified auto tech for many years BTW , so I do have a knowledgable background and have seen it all from both sides .

And BTW , my 70 Nova SS did consistant 112's in the quarter back in the 70's but I don't recall the time on the runs , likely close to yours . Fun times , I miss them .

Cheers !

 

[badtlc]

It is possible the mild acidity of the MMO slowly ate away at the seals/gaskets.

 

[SteveSRT8]

How can it have a Ph with no water?

Hello?

 

[demarpaint]

They tested it with various gasket and seal materials used in modern engines and found it to be harmless to them. So if anything there might have been some junk that it cleaned that was creating a false seal and it is now leaking as a result of that being cleaned up. I'd try a HM oil and see how things go with that. JMO

 

[mcshooter]

i have 2 twin turbo 6 cylinder engines i tore down to add a stroked crank and bored .030 over to gain some more power. i got one when it had about 57000 and the other with 36000 miles on them .. since i got both cars used i have no idea what oil was used. at tear down one has 137000 and the other 985000 and i have used different oils, red line, royal purple and amsoil. i never used a oil additive and both engines have no cyl ridge like years ago that at tear down you had to use a ridge reamer to remove the pistons. my theory is all of the modern day oils are so good without a additive that there is practily no cyl wear. i was able to just push the pistons out..

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
How can it have a Ph with no water?

Hello?


It has been shown time and time again to be acidic in the sumps. It will mildly decrease TBN as a result, nothing drastic.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
How can it have a Ph with no water?

Hello?


It has been shown time and time again to be acidic in the sumps. It will mildly decrease TBN as a result, nothing drastic.


Gee, so my chemistry teacher was all wrong when they told me you cannot have a Ph without water present? That is supposedly an absolute.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
It is possible the mild acidity of the MMO slowly ate away at the seals/gaskets.

I doubt it ate the gaskets however it likely found a defect and exploited it. If you have a gunged up engine from neglect then mmo is a fairly gentle cleanser when used as directed but a person may not want an older engine to be too clean,or things like this can occur.
Skyship
You keep referring to mmo as a solvent snake oil. If it's snake oil then it would in fact do nothing,which obviously,as a solvent,it has cleaned something,just like it says it will do. So how exactly is it snake oil. It did exactly what it claims it does,which is clean.
Your comments are very entertaining. You make me laugh. Just like a joke.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
How can it have a Ph with no water?

Hello?


It has been shown time and time again to be acidic in the sumps. It will mildly decrease TBN as a result, nothing drastic.


Gee, so my chemistry teacher was all wrong when they told me you cannot have a Ph without water present? That is supposedly an absolute.


I'm not trying to be argumentative here but isn't ph a measure of whether something is basic or acidic. Does water even have to be present or can any liquid be measured on the ph scale?
I'm asking so please don't flame

 

[kschachn]

For a true pH scale, it is for aqueous solutions only. However, there are non-aqueous probes in existence (I have used one) but they do not behave like a normal probe and neither does the solution under test. Some non-aqueous solutions do have hydrogen ions and that is what you are measuring, but it is not the same as with water.

The response time of the bulb can be much longer for example. A lot has to do with the solution used to fill the probe. Most of the time what you are measuring is the acidity of the slight amount of water that is usually dissolved in any liquid.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
I'm not trying to be argumentative here but isn't ph a measure of whether something is basic or acidic. Does water even have to be present or can any liquid be measured on the ph scale? I'm asking so please don't flame

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: urdrwho
I think that was it, I fell for the label talking about adding it during oil changes.

"Marvel recommends replacing between 10 and 25 percent of your motor oil with MMO. "

I didn't add it at every change but I did use it more often than not.

In my one car directly after an oil change with MMO added, a terrible leak started at the rear of the head. There is a plate at the rear of the head that is impossible to reach, impossible to replace the sealing gasket. It was dripping onto the exhaust and smelled. All that i could attempt is to take RTV and smear around the plate as best I could. I could not reach all of the plate and to this day, I still get drips.

The last time I had an experience with oil leaks after an oil change was 15 years. At the time the car I bought was high mileage and synth oil was the new rage. I tried it only to witness oil seeping from all kind of places. I think the same can happen with MMO.


Using solvent or thin oil cleaner additives can be one bad idea in any modern engine and in particular ones with turbos. It says in the worlds most common but least read book (The owners handbook) do not use oil additives and they say that for very sound reasons.
With older engines you might have an internal varnish layer coating part of the shaft, oil seal or gasket and if it gets dissolved then you can get an oil leak.
If you think you have a minor sludge case (very rare if you use a good oil and OCI), use an oil additive designed for idle use only just before the oil change and then consider using an oil with more detergent like a major brand synthetic or if you have oil leaks an HM oil with a shorter initial OCI.
Liqui Moly and Amsoil both make good idle only flush additives, that are safe for any engine.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
For a true pH scale, it is for aqueous solutions only. However, there are non-aqueous probes in existence (I have used one) but they do not behave like a normal probe and neither does the solution under test. Some non-aqueous solutions do have hydrogen ions and that is what you are measuring, but it is not the same as with water.

The response time of the bulb can be much longer for example. A lot has to do with the solution used to fill the probe. Most of the time what you are measuring is the acidity of the slight amount of water that is usually dissolved in any liquid.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
I'm not trying to be argumentative here but isn't ph a measure of whether something is basic or acidic. Does water even have to be present or can any liquid be measured on the ph scale? I'm asking so please don't flame

Thank you.