really remove the upper intake???

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Good thing spark plugs go 50,000 to 100,000 miles these days. So long as one has the upper intake removed see if the PCV valve is down there and replace it. It is on the 4 cylinder Duratec engine that is found in the Focus and Ranger and likely other vehicles. Although, supposedly the dealership will do the first PCV at 60,000 miles for free.
 
Yep, the intake plenum has to be removed from Hyundai/Kia 2.7/3.3's to get at the rear 3 coils & plugs. No other way to remove them.

You just have to be sure the gaskets stay intact and don't drop anything in there when shes lifted!

Joel
 
Threads like this make me love my Jeep 4.0L. I can open the hood and easily see all the plugs. On my buddy's 2001 Ford Ranger, the first step to replacing the plugs is "remove passenger side front tire and wheel".
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Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
so doing some research and talking over at the taurus forum the duratec is the popular choice. i started doing some research and you have to remove the intake manifold to replace the rear plugs? ok i am sorry who's genius idea was this? i mean really!!! is there another way or is that it?


Its very, very common these days, and has been for a number of years. Fortunately most engines that require this have reusable O-rings instead of gaskets on the joint between the upper and lower intakes, and make the job relatively simple by minimizing the stuff you have to disconnect to swing the upper intake out of the way. I've done it a couple of times on the PT Cruiser, and it adds maybe 15-20 minutes to the job. Kinda sad, since plugs would be about a 10 minute job on that engine otherwise. But you have to be fair- if it had the plugs on the side of the head like an old 2-valve engine then the plugs themselves would be harder to get at. So you spend more time on the upper intake, but less on the actual plugs in my case.
 
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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
so doing some research and talking over at the taurus forum the duratec is the popular choice. i started doing some research and you have to remove the intake manifold to replace the rear plugs? ok i am sorry who's genius idea was this? i mean really!!! is there another way or is that it?


Its very, very common these days, and has been for a number of years. Fortunately most engines that require this have reusable O-rings instead of gaskets on the joint between the upper and lower intakes, and make the job relatively simple by minimizing the stuff you have to disconnect to swing the upper intake out of the way. I've done it a couple of times on the PT Cruiser, and it adds maybe 15-20 minutes to the job. Kinda sad, since plugs would be about a 10 minute job on that engine otherwise. But you have to be fair- if it had the plugs on the side of the head like an old 2-valve engine then the plugs themselves would be harder to get at. So you spend more time on the upper intake, but less on the actual plugs in my case.





Yes - those PT cruisers weren't too bad for plug changing. I've done 2 of those, but they weren't Turbos.
 
Don't feel bad, I found oil in the spark plug coil area on my Volvo from a leaking PCV flame trap. Have to pull the Intake to get to it as well as the P/S pump, Alternator and AC compressor.
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I think it's easier than doing the back three on a 3.1 GM.


You don't have to do anything special to access the rear bank on a 3.1.


Somebody's never done the back three spark plugs on a 3.1 W-body car.

you can either take the alternator off and reach across the back of the engine (my method) or you can follow the manual's instructions and take off the torque strut "dog bones" and rock the engine forward.

N-chassis cars usually require removing the coil pack. The manual calls for removing the wiper control module but I cannot recall having to that.
 
The upper intake manifold connect to the lower manifold through metal tubes in the engine compartment. For removing upper intake there in need to open the hood of the vehicle, place a drain pan under the radiator and masking tape on the each of the coil wires and mark their position with a pen or felt tip marker. Than remove the bolts, Disconnect the radiator hose from the radiator, Take off the hold-down clamp on the distributor, Locate the bolts used to secure the upper manifold, lift the upper manifold up and pull it out of the engine.
 
On most 3.1 GMs, you have to remove a few engine mounts to tip the engine forward. The plugs on a V6 dodge caravan are most easily done from underneath, blind. So quit complaining.
 
As an Engineer, I have to respond to 'Stupid Engineering'. That's just wrong!! Are you refering to Design Engineers, Manufacturing Engineers, what!!. These vehicles typically have Platinum plugs with 100,000 mile service intervals. The entire Engine Compartment, even the placement of the battery becomes part of the crash and safety design. Ever have to change a battery, in the Wheel well of a Chrysler!! All manufacturers want the customer to service the vehicle at their shops. Many mechanics have custom bent/built tools to do the job at less than book time. If you are fixing your own vehicle today, get used to Engines packed tightly and research the job well. Don't blame the Engineers, they design components and assemblies, but Manufacturing, Ease of Production, etc take precident.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

Somebody's never done the back three spark plugs on a 3.1 W-body car.

you can either take the alternator off and reach across the back of the engine (my method) ...


That's how I do it too. I can get my whole arm behind the engine if necessary. Just can't see much though...
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I think it's easier than doing the back three on a 3.1 GM.


You don't have to do anything special to access the rear bank on a 3.1.


Somebody's never done the back three spark plugs on a 3.1 W-body car.

you can either take the alternator off and reach across the back of the engine (my method) or you can follow the manual's instructions and take off the torque strut "dog bones" and rock the engine forward.

N-chassis cars usually require removing the coil pack. The manual calls for removing the wiper control module but I cannot recall having to that.


Your statement would have been more accurate to narrow down the vehicle, not the engine, since many of the vehicles that the 3.1/3.4 engine was installed in do not require any work prior to removing spark plugs. Having just done one within the past year, I'm speaking from experience. I couldn't SEE the plugs but it was easy to get at with a socket and short extension. And no, no rolling the engine forward first. Yes, an N-body and no need to remove the coil packs (although it's 2 bolts...)

I'm aware that on SOME vehicles, that may be possible, but that's not an engine design issue (such as having to remove the upper intake), it's just a packaging issue (engine in the car).
 
Originally Posted By: default
On most 3.1 GMs, you have to remove a few engine mounts to tip the engine forward. The plugs on a V6 dodge caravan are most easily done from underneath, blind. So quit complaining.


That's fine, its a GM. The engine will need to be swapped anyway before you change the plugs out.
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Seriously though, it makes you wonder if they design cars to make it harder for the do-it-yourselfer. More money for the dealerships.

VW is a good example. To replace the headlight bulb on a 2001 Jetta, you have to remove about 5 plastic shields and the battery. My friend is a 19 year old tiny Asian girl and even she couldn't get her hands in there.
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Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I think it's easier than doing the back three on a 3.1 GM.


You don't have to do anything special to access the rear bank on a 3.1.


Somebody's never done the back three spark plugs on a 3.1 W-body car.

you can either take the alternator off and reach across the back of the engine (my method) or you can follow the manual's instructions and take off the torque strut "dog bones" and rock the engine forward.

N-chassis cars usually require removing the coil pack. The manual calls for removing the wiper control module but I cannot recall having to that.


Your statement would have been more accurate to narrow down the vehicle, not the engine, since many of the vehicles that the 3.1/3.4 engine was installed in do not require any work prior to removing spark plugs. Having just done one within the past year, I'm speaking from experience. I couldn't SEE the plugs but it was easy to get at with a socket and short extension. And no, no rolling the engine forward first. Yes, an N-body and no need to remove the coil packs (although it's 2 bolts...)

I'm aware that on SOME vehicles, that may be possible, but that's not an engine design issue (such as having to remove the upper intake), it's just a packaging issue (engine in the car).


Point was that it is no more difficult to do a Duratec Upper Plenum than it is to do the back three on any number of 3.1 GMs...It's not like doing the plugs on a D-series Civic.
 
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Point was that it is no more difficult to do a Duratec Upper Plenum than it is to do the back three on any number of 3.1 GMs...It's not like doing the plugs on a D-series Civic.


I get that. I just want to make a distinction between poor packaging and poor design. I suppose it comes down to the position responsible for bad packaging - the engineers who designed the engine or the ones who put it in the vehicle.
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I don't see the issue anyhow...I mean every 80 to 100k miles you change the plugs. Not like you're gonna do it once a year.
 
Originally Posted By: partspro
These vehicles typically have Platinum plugs with 100,000 mile service intervals.


I have double platinum spark plugs on my 1995 Ford Escort that supposedly last 100,000 miles. They still have to be regapped every 30,000 - 40,000 miles.
 
nobody gaps double (laser) platinum spark plugs! Of course, they were NOT invented in 1995, so I am not sure where you are getting the instructions to regap them.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Threads like this make me love my Jeep 4.0L. I can open the hood and easily see all the plugs.


Nah, the Cherokee is packed WAY too tight. On an old F-100, you could climb under the hood and stand *NEXT* to the engine and remove the plugs at waist level without even bending over :p

One that I've never done, but is my benchmark for 'what were they thinking???' is the starter on a Northstar. Under the intake. Granted, they were trying to build a 300+ horsepower lightweight overhead-cam 32-valve v8 that would fit under the hood in a front-drive in the early 90s (and they succeeded), but just dang. The later solution of "just use a pushrod LS series engine and take advantage of the lower 'V' height compared to an OHC" is so much better in hindsight.
 
Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
I bet its more like an hour to do it. It doesn't look to bad its just very stupid engineering. No reason they couldn't have made it where you didn't have to take the intake off.


You should call up Ford. I bet they never thought of that one!
 
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