Recent Topics
2010 Jeep Commander
by HWEaton
Yesterday at 10:00 PM
General Altimax Arctics
by HWEaton
Yesterday at 09:40 PM
New Nitto Terra Grappler G2
by HWEaton
Yesterday at 09:33 PM
What is it with...
by Pop_Rivit
Yesterday at 09:26 PM
How important are filtering efficiency specs?
by Noey
Yesterday at 09:15 PM
WM: Tuff-Stuff cleaner $3/can (nt)
by sleddriver
Yesterday at 08:15 PM
Napa Gold Or Wix Filters?
by crazyoildude
Yesterday at 07:55 PM
2013 Mazda 3 SkyActiv, M1 AFE 0w-20, 12,832 miles
by The Critic
Yesterday at 07:50 PM
How To Professionally Detail A Vehicle
by Warstud
Yesterday at 07:49 PM
before and after (hood pics)
by ram_man
Yesterday at 07:44 PM
Marathon Gas, fuel quality
by wemay
Yesterday at 07:11 PM
05 Silverado 5.3 UOA
by Wills05
Yesterday at 07:03 PM
Newest Members
rmp, PAssatGuy, mcn1970, KCChemist, bbuice
51461 Registered Users
Who's Online
34 registered (CATERHAM, 147_Grain, bsigg, Apollo14, carmine_ricca, 5 invisible), 790 Guests and 150 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51461 Members
64 Forums
220101 Topics
3475854 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Page 17 of 19 < 1 2 ... 15 16 17 18 19 >
Topic Options
#3427470 - 07/17/14 11:51 AM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14565
Loc: Midwest
A suggestion:

Let's take any MTF fluid questions or comments over to the transmission fluid thread:
Forum
_________________________
A Yawn is a silent scream for coffee! smile

Top
#3427656 - 07/17/14 03:07 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
vintageant Offline


Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 209
Loc: Florida, USA
Thank you, MolaKule!
_________________________
1925 Alvis HDEO 15W40
1937 Alvis Speed 25 HDEO 15W40
1970 VW Beetle motorcycle 10W40 w/ LM Ceratec
2003 Honda Accord dino 5W20

Top
#3464214 - 08/25/14 03:51 AM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: vintageant]
ChiaroBlue Offline


Registered: 07/22/14
Posts: 15
Loc: Scandinavia, Europe
Have you all already read this paper from 2013?:

http://www.mdpi.com/2075-4442/1/4/95/pdf (Nanomaterials in Lubricants: An Industrial Perspective on Current Research)

The text below from page 97 is alarming, in particular if the conclusion also applies to Millers NT motor oils (containing IF-WS2):

"IF-WS2 is marketed as the EP/AW additive for engine oils, gear lubricants and greases [4], yet its applications so far are very limited. Among the chief limiting factors is the uncertainty about the health safety and environmental (HSE) profile of fullerenes. IF-WS2 also has issues with copper corrosion and poor oxidation stability. As a result, IF-WS2 fortified engine oils are likely to fail the International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) GF-2 Sequence L38 and GF-3 Sequence VIII tests.

Changes in various performance characteristics of a motor oil due to deployment of IF-WS2 in formulation are shown in Figure 2. Modest improvements (outward arrows) in wear protection (for direct-acting valve trains) and fuel economy are outweighed by degradation (inward arrows) in such pivotal properties as corrosion protection, with a specific risk for main bearing corrosion, oxidative thickening, and emission system durability. IF-WS2 doped oils may cause severe damage to engines with Nikasil cylinder bore coatings, and offer no advantage whatsoever for engines with Alusil bores and roller-follower valve trains."


Edited by ChiaroBlue (08/25/14 03:56 AM)

Top
#3464442 - 08/25/14 12:52 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
DrAdmin Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 20
Loc: Ontario,Canada
" may cause severe damage... "

an article theorized about Inorganic fullerene-like (IF) nano-particles and nano-tubes of WS2; not a WS2 bricks

chemical and lubrication effect is a differ for nano-particles and not well studied.

article itself is some squeeze from reference materials; and words for nicasil damage doesn't have any reference link. The information looks very subjective

Top
#3464472 - 08/25/14 01:54 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 148
Loc: Pacific NW
Hmmm. I wonder if they have emptied their wet blanket closet with this article.

Interesting read. I am not qualified to really comment on it. I would like to note that the Millers Oil is certified for sale in US and Europe. I don't have the knowledge to relate that to the standards for which they feel it would not qualify.

Some people I have seen tout the Fullerene like materials as lubricating like ball bearings. I have never felt that was a correct view of the IF WS2. I believe it is more the shearing of the Fullerenes and the resulting surface attachment of the resultant much smaller WS2 particles. This is just my gut. Remember, I am not an oil person.

I do share the concern for long term environmental impact of nano-particles. Even just personal exposure of the raw materials. Our track record in identifying long term problem materials has not been very good.

It would really be interesting to see a paper from Millers Oil or the manufacturer in Israel about these issues.

I have the feeling we will see some comments from people who know more then I.

Top
#3464885 - 08/25/14 09:53 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7015
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
paging; 67King!
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 170K miles
Red Line 0W-40/Sustina 0W-20 (80/20 mix)
Amsoil EaO 64 filter
Synpower 75W-140/4oz. XL-3
Ravenol MTF-2

Top
#3464909 - 08/25/14 10:29 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
GaleHawkins Online   content


Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 316
Loc: Murray KY USA
Since we know there are no additional additives required in today's motor oil to functionally increase engine life I would want any new additive proved well before using it. I am talking about non turbo engines. Taking 1.4L engines and getting more HP out of then a 454 Chevy is technology that I do not understand very well at all. smile

Top
#3464945 - 08/25/14 11:13 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: GaleHawkins]
123Saab Offline


Registered: 10/27/10
Posts: 1298
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Since we know there are no additional additives required in today's motor oil to functionally increase engine life I would want any new additive proved well before using it. I am talking about non turbo engines. Taking 1.4L engines and getting more HP out of then a 454 Chevy is technology that I do not understand very well at all. smile


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_in_Formula_One
_________________________
Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours to go I wanna be sedated
Nothin' to do and no where to go-o-oh I wanna be sedated

Top
#3465467 - 08/26/14 03:39 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
DrAdmin Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 20
Loc: Ontario,Canada
"no additional additives required in today's motor oil" - oh absolutely smile
Walmart shelf #5 - labeled as "Ideal oil for everything" smile

An each formulation is a tradeoff between many points in a final product, including a price for a product. some additives can definitely improve even a good product, due to product should have a competitive price.

or buy Xenum WRX 7.5W40 per $50 per 1 liter (quart)

Top
#3465898 - 08/26/14 10:56 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14565
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
some additives can definitely improve even a good product, due to product should have a competitive price.


Which ones show any efficacy and how much should you add? ???
_________________________
A Yawn is a silent scream for coffee! smile

Top
#3466414 - 08/27/14 02:08 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: MolaKule]
ChiaroBlue Offline


Registered: 07/22/14
Posts: 15
Loc: Scandinavia, Europe

Top
#3466525 - 08/27/14 04:07 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 148
Loc: Pacific NW
Now that is a nice piece of work. It pretty much demonstrates most of what I have been saying for a long time. Kills my perception that exfoliation of the basic Fullerene shape is the primary lubricating mechanism; got to change my mental store to ball bearings. Although they did mention chunks filling holes after being sheered off the Fullerenes.

ChiaroBlue, that link should be posted in the MS2 thread subject matter. If you don't want to do it, send a PM and I will. Thanks for posting it.

Did anyone here attend that meeting? If you have, some feedback from the audience would be nice.


Edited by alternety (08/27/14 04:08 PM)

Top
#3466569 - 08/27/14 04:49 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
DrAdmin Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 20
Loc: Ontario,Canada
"Which ones show any efficacy and how much should you add?"
double-double same as Canadian Tim Horton coffee smile smile
in fact you you nailed me, I cant say any

but:
I may assume an acoustic noise of the working engine do indicate efficiency of lubrication process; and additives run mostly efficient on a boundary lubrication. in assumption lower noise == lower friction; and subconscious filling from car response I can only judge.

Top
#3466655 - 08/27/14 06:04 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
DrAdmin Offline


Registered: 07/07/14
Posts: 20
Loc: Ontario,Canada
is seems i have an answer for efficiency and use additve in overall.

I may assume additive a primary function (what we expecting here) is as a friction modification.

in this document (and i have no evidence not to trust it)
https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3115.pdf
"Four-Ball Wear Test" indicated a significant differences ( relatively to scale) in wear protection. Adding additive we sliding to the best level possible or choosing a oil where friction modificator exist. (test as an example as "test" regardless it applicability to a real life)

Top
#3466735 - 08/27/14 07:26 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 148
Loc: Pacific NW
Huh?

Top
Page 17 of 19 < 1 2 ... 15 16 17 18 19 >