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#3381114 - 05/25/14 08:27 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14637
Loc: Midwest
alternety,

Send me a PM with your address and I will send you a surfactant (FOC) that you can try with your WS2 to see if it suspends better.
_________________________
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine smile

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#3381118 - 05/25/14 08:29 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
JAG Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 4532
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
Maybe it would be good to mix a solvent with the mineral oil so it's not as viscous initially, and as the solvent evaporates over time, the viscosity and the WS2 concentration will increase.

Edit: I wrote the above before seeing Molakule's nice offer.


Edited by JAG (05/25/14 08:31 PM)

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#3381280 - 05/26/14 02:11 AM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 148
Loc: Pacific NW
JAG, I was/am thinking carriers. My initial effort with the IF WS2 out of the container seems to allow reasonable penetration. A solvent would address the carrier oil. The IF WS2 itself does not dissolve.

For the powder form of the non-IF I have used 99% alcohol with success. For the mineral oil based IF WS2, that might work. But another solvent could be desirable. It is hard to tell if the material has thoroughly penetrated the necessary interfaces. I have considered Kroil. But all I have is SiliKroil.

I have contacted MolaKule about his generous offer. I am pleased to get one of the real experts interested.

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#3416977 - 07/07/14 09:44 AM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: dailydriver]
67King Offline


Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 85
Loc: Knoxville, TN
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Their 0W-30 (or 0W-20) Racing might have been even better, but it may have a slightly lower TBN than their 'street' line up, so possibly not as good for extended drains. frown

I believe the VIs in the same grade are very close between the racing and street labelled oils.


Actually, the racing oils have the same additive pack as the longlife oils (BMW LL04, MB 220.51, etc). TBN is reported around 11, though Polaris is coming back in the mid 9's with virgin oil. Tons of detergents. It is designed to be an endurance oil. Kind of like 300V or Amsoil Dominator. Good news is the NT more than offsets the affects of the detergents, as far as friction. Wish we could make some without a high detergent pack for some of the professionals. Our gear oils are being tested in Mooresville right now, by whom I can't say but it would surprise folks. I'd love to get some low detergent NT stuff into their engines for testing.

Anyway, we may actually have some good news for you, specifically, in a few months. Can't elaborate.

Molekule, if you are ever down this way, let me know and I'll buy you a beer. I've not been back here in a while, was searching for a link that I posted a while back, but can't find it, and saw that this thread was 16 pages, and had been somewhat active, so I checked back.
_________________________
944T - SP3 race car, 944TS "hot rod", 968 driver, 67GTO, 66 Bronco, 10 535i M-Sport, 6.7L Cummins Ram, 07 R320CDI - all with Millers

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#3417010 - 07/07/14 10:18 AM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14637
Loc: Midwest
Alternety is now experimenting with the Surfactant I sent him and my own formula gun oil.

He has had some eye problems so he should be responding after the procedure.

Keep him in your thoughts and prayers.


Edited by MolaKule (07/07/14 10:21 AM)
_________________________
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine smile

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#3418924 - 07/08/14 09:50 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: 67King]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7065
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Originally Posted By: 67King
Anyway, we may actually have some good news for you, specifically, in a few months. Can't elaborate.


^^^IF this was for/directed at me, could it possibly be a VERY high VI 0W-30/40 NT engine/race oil, or a very thin (< 8.0 cSt @ 100* C) PAO/POE NT GL-4 MTL??? shrug
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 175K miles
Red Line 0W-40/Sustina 0W-20 (20/80 mix)
Fram Ultra filter
Synpower 75W-140/4oz. XL-3
Red Line D4 in the T56

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#3423543 - 07/13/14 02:26 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
PhillipM Offline


Registered: 02/04/14
Posts: 33
Loc: UK
I do wish Millers would offer a thinner MTF than the gear oils they currently have, can't use their oil in most of the French gearboxes because they're very fussy about oil weight in terms of gearchange quality.

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#3423549 - 07/13/14 02:37 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 618
Loc: Manchester, England
Im dumping my Millers nt 75w90 and going back to a 50/50 mix of mt90 and mtl in a few hundred miles, i seem to remember it shifted smoother, quiter and faster with redline.. ill find out soon if theres a measurable buttdyno difference, or if it was just my memory playing tricks on me.
_________________________
1982 VW Scirocco
1457cc
98 bhp
1900 lbs
71000 miles
44mpg
Weber/Millers/Mahle/ITG/Leda/Michelin/Brembo/Pagid/Pioneer

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#3423632 - 07/13/14 04:26 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 148
Loc: Pacific NW
Olas - Keep in mind that the effect of using a lubricant with the Nano WS2 is a semi-permanent surface layer of the WS2. Going back to a non-IF WS2 lubricant and measuring results is an apples to pears comparison.

You may or may not get better performance with the non-nano (like you remember), but there will be that IF WS2 bonded to the surface that you can not ignore in your evaluation of "going back". Using a nano WS2 (or to a lesser extent any WS2) is pretty much a one way street. It will be there essentially forever.

Basically, you can compare results going from regular oil to a WS2 oil; but not vice versa.

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#3424658 - 07/14/14 05:37 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7065
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
So if I switch to Valvoline Synpower 75W-140 in the rear axle, how long will I have the residual effects/benefits of the NT Millers, forever?? (67 King is this true??) shrug
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 175K miles
Red Line 0W-40/Sustina 0W-20 (20/80 mix)
Fram Ultra filter
Synpower 75W-140/4oz. XL-3
Red Line D4 in the T56

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#3424685 - 07/14/14 06:08 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
alternety Offline


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 148
Loc: Pacific NW
It forms a molecular bond to the surface.Very strong forces, with very short range (Van derwhals) hold it there. Than material is extremely slippery and very hard. Just Google it. It fills the spaces in the surface of the target material.

It is used in some applications as a "permanent" lubrication. Fairly low level air blast is sufficient to embed it in the target material.

I don't know how long it will last. But potentially a rather long time. It effectively builds a new wear surface.

And, of course, you will never have dandruff again.


Edited by alternety (07/14/14 06:09 PM)

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#3424979 - 07/14/14 09:35 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14637
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: alternety
Olas - Keep in mind that the effect of using a lubricant with the Nano WS2 is a semi-permanent surface layer of the WS2. Going back to a non-IF WS2 lubricant and measuring results is an apples to pears comparison.

You may or may not get better performance with the non-nano (like you remember), but there will be that IF WS2 bonded to the surface that you can not ignore in your evaluation of "going back". Using a nano WS2 (or to a lesser extent any WS2) is pretty much a one way street. It will be there essentially forever.

Basically, you can compare results going from regular oil to a WS2 oil; but not vice versa.


Eventually the WS2 will shear off due to mechanical shearing forces, as do many solid additives.

The RL MTL or Amsoil MTG will probably be a better oil for a manual tranny.

Many blenders lack an understanding of manual transmission internals and the effects of various friction modifiers on those internals.

When more than one type of friction modifier is involved, it is usually a case of antagonism among the friction modifiers.
_________________________
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine smile

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#3425203 - 07/15/14 06:18 AM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
Olas Offline


Registered: 12/11/13
Posts: 618
Loc: Manchester, England
Mola,

i cant disagree with anything you come out with, but, yoire saying one should be better for my applixation than the other..if they're both 75w90 gl4 it shouldnt make a difference, right? unless redline use a better add. pack?
_________________________
1982 VW Scirocco
1457cc
98 bhp
1900 lbs
71000 miles
44mpg
Weber/Millers/Mahle/ITG/Leda/Michelin/Brembo/Pagid/Pioneer

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#3426333 - 07/16/14 09:29 AM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: Olas]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14637
Loc: Midwest
Originally Posted By: Olas
Mola,

i cant disagree with anything you come out with, but, yoire saying one should be better for my applixation than the other..if they're both 75w90 gl4 it shouldnt make a difference, right? unless redline use a better add. pack?


Not at all. A I was suggesting using either fluid but as long as you are mixing both 50/50 that should be fine.
_________________________
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine smile

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#3426738 - 07/16/14 05:44 PM Re: IF WS2 = ultimate lubricant [Re: alternety]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7065
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
Mola, what would you suggest to 'thin out' either Red Line MTL, or Amsoil MTF, down into the 8.0 to 8.5 cSt @ 100*C range for my T56??

This Ravenol MTF-2 just is NOT cutting it. frown

Would the Pentosin MTF-2 be any better, or is it just way too similar to the Ravenol to make any difference, even when just using a liter or so to 'cut' either of the two American made manual gearbox fluids? shrug

(I would usually just use Red Line D4 to thin out the MTL, but you and many others on here just blast this out of the water, even in a very low mix ratio. wink )
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 175K miles
Red Line 0W-40/Sustina 0W-20 (20/80 mix)
Fram Ultra filter
Synpower 75W-140/4oz. XL-3
Red Line D4 in the T56

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