Claims that Honda use a "Special Break-in Oil"

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Having just bought a '13 Accord 4cyl, I began reading a Honda Accord forum and some readers on there insist that Honda uses a special break-in oil and that it must be left it till the MM tells you its time to change. I'm of the old school that believes in early oil changes and
doubt that anything is special about the oil, particularly since local dealers pedal Honda Semi/Syn 0W-20 for oil changes, and plan on changing at least by 5K.

Do any of you know for a fact what oil Honda uses in their new Accords and whether theres anything "special" about it?
 
Yes. Honda does use a break in oil thats heavy with an additive called moly. Helps with break in of piston rings skirts etc. If you look in your owner's manual, it should give you the proper MM % you need to go down to before an oil change.
 
Originally Posted By: tc1446
Do any of you know for a fact what oil Honda uses in their new Accords and whether theres anything "special" about it?

In the August 2006 edition of Honda Service News, this is what Honda says about their factory fill:

"What’s really important to remember here is this:
Don’t change the factory-fill engine oil because it
looks dark; just make sure it’s at the right fluid
level. To ensure proper engine break-in, the
factory-fill engine oil needs to remain in the
engine until the first scheduled maintenance
interval."


There's a lot more, but not relevant to your specific question.
 
Originally Posted By: bourne
Yes. Honda does use a break in oil thats heavy with an additive called moly.

Moly is not from the oil. The moly you find in your UOAs is the engine-assembly lube that gets mixed in upon the first engine startup.

Here's the rest of the text from that August 2006 HSN article:

"At PDI, does the factory-fill engine oil look less
like Texas Tea and more like Oklahoma Crude?
Don’t worry, there’s nothing wrong with the
engine. The engine oil looks that way because of
molybdenum (that’s “moly” for short), a special
lubricant applied by the factory to critical engine
components during assembly.
When the engine is test-run, that molybdenum
mixes with the engine oil, turning it a dark
metallic color often within the first 5 minutes of
running. And just how dark that engine oil turns
seems to vary between vehicle models, engine
types, and engine assembly plants."
 
I have a new '12 (didn't think I wanted a '13 with DI).
I'm also wrestling with the idea of leaving the FF in there for very long.
Honda says that the factory fill should be left in for a normal interval.
Honda makes more engines than any other company in the world.
Honda makes the best four cylinder engines in the world.
As much as it hurts me, the FF will stay in my '12 until at least 30% MM.
I tend to listen to those who have a flawless track record, and with four cylinder engines, Honda does.
This Accord is our seventh four cylinder Honda, BTW.
Our first was a '76 Civic 1500 CVCC.
Great little car that we drove for many years and miles.
It was ~3K new IIRC.
We then had two '86 Civic Wagovans, a '96 Ody, a '97 Accord and the '99 Accord we still have.
If Big H says to leave the factory fill in, I guess I'll listen.
They've built there rep on durable four cylinder engines, after all.
 
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
like others have said, its not a claim, its fact.



Follow Honda's instructions. they didn't get to be the engine powerhouse by not having a clue about maintenance schedules.
 
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Originally Posted By: tc1446
Having just bought a '13 Accord 4cyl, I began reading a Honda Accord forum and some readers on there insist that Honda uses a special break-in oil and that it must be left it till the MM tells you its time to change. I'm of the old school that believes in early oil changes and
doubt that anything is special about the oil, particularly since local dealers pedal Honda Semi/Syn 0W-20 for oil changes, and plan on changing at least by 5K.

Do any of you know for a fact what oil Honda uses in their new Accords and whether theres anything "special" about it?


I went through the exact same thing with our '11 V6. Since there had been reports of problems with Honda's VCMs, I decided to follow their instructions to the T and document everything. I got VOA reports on both Honda Genuine oils, the blend and full syn 0W-20. I replaced the FF at the recommended 15% which was 6300 miles (it should be longer in your 4 cyl) and got it tested. I bought HG Full Syn, OE filters and crush washers to do my own OC's. My second oil change was done after 6400 miles, again at 15%. I tested the oil again.

Here are the facts. The factory fill is nothing special. It has a lesser ad pack than HGFS (you can search for my threads if you want to see the documentation). However, the FF does end up with a high moly content and Honda is quite insistent that you leave it in until the MM tells you to change it. The moly is not from "assembly lube". It is from moly impregnated piston skirts Honda began installing on both 4 and 6 cyl engines for MY 2011. This mod was announced in a Honda press release. Since they've had problems with oil control rings In the past and obviously believe that exposure to high moly loads during the first OC cycle is part of the cure, why would you want to ignore their advice? Because of some speculative scuttlebutt you read on the Internet?

I can also tell you with certainty that HGFS is a very good oil, superior in additive content to the FF. Having tested this product, I am now confident in leaving it in to 0% which should be around 8,000 miles on a V6.

And finally, my Honda V6 VCM engine burns zero oil and runs great, although 14,000 miles obviously hasn't told the full story yet. Follow Honda's recommendation to leave the FF in for the first full cycle. Use a quality 0W-20 synthetic oil such as Honda Genuine to replace it when the time comes. You will enjoy many years and miles of motoring pleasure.
 
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Great feedback. Many thanks to all of you. I'm convinced that Its time to toss out my old school methods of changing early and changing frequently and go with the new school as specified.

Indydriver: extra thanks to you for the detailed report.
 
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
The moly is not from "assembly lube". It is from moly impregnated piston skirts Honda began installing on both 4 and 6 cyl engines for MY 2011.

The moly in the factory fill IS from assembly lube. Honda says so themselves in that article I quoted, which you evidently didn't read.

There is, undoubtedly, also moly from the rings, but that from assembly lube by far outweighs that from the rings, in the factory fill.
 
Originally Posted By: tc1446
Having just bought a '13 Accord 4cyl, I began reading a Honda Accord forum and some readers on there insist that Honda uses a special break-in oil and that it must be left it till the MM tells you its time to change. I'm of the old school that believes in early oil changes and
doubt that anything is special about the oil, particularly since local dealers pedal Honda Semi/Syn 0W-20 for oil changes, and plan on changing at least by 5K.

Do any of you know for a fact what oil Honda uses in their new Accords and whether theres anything "special" about it?


Moly is present in many engines due to assembly lube. Nothing new there, hardly groundbreaking tech!

We went through all this with the 6.1 engines made by Chrysler on a special line in Mexico. They spec a 3k mile interval on synthetic oil. We had everyone mad, from the early changers to the guys who thought syn should go 10k miles.

I left mine in the full 3k because I had lunch with Ralph Gilles at Homestead raceway and he said it was beneficial to break in.

Good enough for me. Also note that in an engine family noted for consumption of oil my car never uses a drop even at HPDE's!
 
I believe you can have the best of both worlds. Change the factory fill early to get rid of factory and break-in contaminants, and add assembly lube (rich in MoS2) to the next oil charge.
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I believe you can have the best of both worlds. Change the factory fill early to get rid of factory and break-in contaminants, and add assembly lube (rich in MoS2) to the next oil charge.

In the August 2006 edition of Honda Service News, this is what Honda says about their factory fill:

"What’s really important to remember here is this:
Don’t change the factory-fill engine oil because it
looks dark; just make sure it’s at the right fluid
level. To ensure proper engine break-in, the
factory-fill engine oil needs to remain in the
engine until the first scheduled maintenance
interval."
 
Tegger, I understand Honda's statement, and why they publish it. There is MoS2 from the assembly lube that makes its way to the oil. This MoS2 is now a beneficial component of the oil and aids in good engine break-in for 5000 miles. It also darkens the oil and this darkening should be ignored by the owner.

My suggestion was for those people who want to change the oil to get rid of the initial contaminants while maintaining Honda's focus of having MoS2 in the oil the help break-in for 5000 miles.

Honda's assembly lube is quickly washed away during the initial use of the engine and is then suspended in the oil during the break-in. Changing the oil, then adding MoS2 assembly lube to the new oil restores the oil to the proper break-in condition.
 
I've said it 1,000 times. follow the manual. The company that designs, tests, and warranties the engine knows more about how to take care of it than some random people on the internet.
 
My 2012 Toyota Sienna V6 comes from the factory with a 10,000 mile OCI (included in purchase price) without so much as an OLM. This plus the Honda experience has taught me that the "early change" mentality that we've grown up with is no longer applicable to modern engines.
 
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