Cleaning - wear and accuracy?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
6,258
Location
Iowa
In other threads/posts, I've seen people comment that their guns won't shoot as accurately after cleaning, or that they won't clean until accuracy is an issue. Why is this? What are the mechanics of it?


I have also seen remarks that guns can be ruined by over cleaning, sometimes making references to military firearms being worn out due to too stringent of cleanliness standards or having nothing else better to do during idle time. Again I ask, what is the actual cause of this? Damage to the bore from metal cleaning rods? I ask so I can make sure to avoid it while caring for my own firearms.
 
Its not so much that its "inaccurate" but rather, the point of impact can change after a barrel is cleaned. Often hunters will fire a "fouling" round or two beforehand for that very reason.

Guns ruined by cleaning are most often caused by careless use of the cleaning rod damaging the lands of the barrel, especially the crown.

I should add that excessive oiling of the bore can also damage a firearm. Not the bore itself, but the oil over time gets into the action and ultimately soaks into wood stocks weakening the area around the action screws.
 
I don't know of any benchrest shooters that shoot out of a dirty barrel. When I see a bench rest shooter at the range, there is usually a cleaning rod laying next to the gun.


Several Hunters I know will not clean their gun after they sight it in at the range. They claim they sighted it in dirty, and that's the way they will leave it until after hunting season. I always clean my gun and hunt with a clean barrel. I have gotten more tags filled than the other hunters I know, but that has nothing to do with gun cleanliness.

I use to be anal about gun cleaning, now I just clean my guns enough so they don't rust. and the bore looks clean. Id a white patch comes out with less than 10% carbon on it, it is good enough for me. My barrels take less than 5 patches to clean. Don't use a stainless bore brush: Use bronze or plastic.
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I
I have also seen remarks that guns can be ruined by over cleaning, sometimes making references to military firearms being worn out due to too stringent of cleanliness standards or having nothing else better to do during idle time. Again I ask, what is the actual cause of this? Damage to the bore from metal cleaning rods? I ask so I can make sure to avoid it while caring for my own firearms.


Think about this for a minute. You are probably pushing a jacketed bullet down the barrel at 900-1,300 FPS over and over. metal rubbing on metal. I don't think a metal rod and cotton patch is going to do anything. If you are worried, use a plastic rod and patches. The only issue I have with a dirty gun is my Mossberg 500. The fired shell will not extract as well. This is only an issue if I run about 300 rounds without cleaning. I always clean my handgun and AR after each shooting trip. It doesn't matter if I fired 50 or 500 rounds that day
 
Last edited:
Quote:
Think about this for a minute. You are probably pushing a jacketed bullet down the barrel at 900-1,300 FPS over and over.


Ironically, firing a gun is probably the least harmful thing you can do to it.
 
I've never heard of cleaning actually wearing out a gun, but changing the accuracy seems plausible.

Some cheap guns might be best left dirty, such as the Hi Point carbines. They aren't the simplest guns to take apart and put back together, and Hi Point actually doesn't recommend cleaning them aside from the barrel. I cleaned mine exactly one time, then said never again. There are videos on Youtube though.

My Ruger has basic field strip instructions and basically cleaning just involves wiping down/very light oil on those parts. The manual says not to disassemble beyond that point, so I don't. I do clean this one every time I shoot it.

My shotgun is a basic single shot, so not much to cleaning it. I clean it whenever I shoot it as well.
 
Prior to reading some threads on BITOG, I'd never heard of it either. If it is true though, I'm interested in why.
 
If you are cleaning the copper fouling out of a rifle barrel it WILL change your point of impact. Copper won't usually come out unless you are dissolving it with a product meant for copper. Just powder solvent and patches isn't a bad idea for maintaining zero until the end of the season. More expensive barrels like used by bench rest shooters shouldn't copper foul to begin with, so they don't have to worry about cleaning at the range I believe.
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
I've never heard of cleaning actually wearing out a gun, but changing the accuracy seems plausible.

Some cheap guns might be best left dirty, such as the Hi Point carbines. They aren't the simplest guns to take apart and put back together, and Hi Point actually doesn't recommend cleaning them aside from the barrel. I cleaned mine exactly one time, then said never again. There are videos on Youtube though.



The Rossi model 92 is hard to take apart, but since it isn't a semi-auto, the bolt area doesn't get dirty. I tried to take mine apart once to clean it. I got half way, then put it back together. It was too much of a pain in the rear to disassemble. I like to disassemble any new rifle to make sure everything looks OK on the inside.

Kimber's small 45s need a special tool to disassemble.
 
Last edited:
This subject can get heated and opinions are strong on both sides about how cleaning should be performed.

Where centerfires are concerned I do not believe I have heard anyone argue against cleaning them at some point but when and how is a subject of great debate.

Rimfires there are definitely a different story, there are those that will never clean a .22 and will swear doing so will ruin it forever. My most accurate .22 is also the most persnickety about ammunition and cleaning. When cleaned the POI continues to change for 10-15 rounds. It is definitely less accurate until the barrel is again seasoned (for lack of a better term).
 
I don't clean my guns until the accuracy falls off. I've got some centerfire rifles that haven't had a patch down the barrel in years.
 
I've read that, for 22LR's, given the low pressure round, low velocity, the lube that wipes off can impact the next several rounds. A change in ammunition can take several rounds to get the lube "changed over". Might not matter for plinking, but get out a distance...
 
I clean and oil after I shoot. Nothing drastic, just good machinery maintenance.

I used to be pretty particular, but not so much any more. A bore snake, clean the BCG, tidy up the chamber, re-lube, and back into the case for the AR. For the pistols I clean and oil the bore, wipe off all the soot and grime, re-lube, and back into the carrier. For anything, if parts of it exceed the threshold I will clean a bit more.

I don't worry about wearing out the bores with aluminum or brass rods. I only use bronze brushes, and don't over do it. Patches until clean-ish. Then some oil. How's that gonna wear out steel?

I think the biggest problem is the idea that you have something very special in your hands. It will outlive you and go through many more hands in its lifetime if everyone takes good care of it. In that long lifetime of the weapon it might be possible to cause SOME damage by overzealous use of cleaning equipment, but not in the lifetime of a single owner.

If a gun is so fragile that it MIGHT be altered by rough cleaning, it sure isn't a gun I want to have in my cabinet. But I don't shoot 600yrd shots on live game. Can't see that good any more.
 
Quote:
In that long lifetime of the weapon it might be possible to cause SOME damage by overzealous use of cleaning equipment, but not in the lifetime of a single owner.

If a gun is so fragile that it MIGHT be altered by rough cleaning, it sure isn't a gun I want to have in my cabinet. But I don't shoot 600yrd shots on live game. Can't see that good any more.


You'd be amazed my friend...
 
Old (and current) military cleaning rods are steel for durability. Steel on steel over enough time can certainly damage a crown or land corners, especially by 18 year olds in the middle of a war zone that don't want to be there. I think this is where these stories come from.

With a soft aluminum/brass rod (my preference) or a coated steel one, you'd be hard pressed to do any real damage unless you intentionally set out to do so.

Remember that they make brass hammers especially to hit steel without damaging it. Many thousands of brass and steel cases get shoved into hard steel chambers by action springs without issue.

Aluminum AR mags last for thousands of rounds with harder brass and steel casings being pushed across their lips.

Copper and lead pellets are pressure forged into a helix shape by 50,000 psi many thousands of times before a barrel is worn out. All of this with plenty of dirt from previous firings left behind.

Guns are very tough and not easy to damage.
 
Yeah cleaning with a steel rod from the muzzle can screw up accuracy. That is why you see several re-aresenaled mil surp rifles that have been backbored from the muzzle to good rifling as an accuracy fix. But a brass or coated rod, as well as cleaning from the breech end (when possible) help prevent damage to the interior of the barrel.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Old (and current) military cleaning rods are steel for durability. Steel on steel over enough time can certainly damage a crown or land corners, especially by 18 year olds in the middle of a war zone that don't want to be there. I think this is where these stories come from.


I kind of figured that this was the root of what I had read.

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Yeah cleaning with a steel rod from the muzzle can screw up accuracy. That is why you see several re-aresenaled mil surp rifles that have been backbored from the muzzle to good rifling as an accuracy fix. But a brass or coated rod, as well as cleaning from the breech end (when possible) help prevent damage to the interior of the barrel.


Would you explain "back bored"?
 
Originally Posted By: Darren270
Quote:
In that long lifetime of the weapon it might be possible to cause SOME damage by overzealous use of cleaning equipment, but not in the lifetime of a single owner.

If a gun is so fragile that it MIGHT be altered by rough cleaning, it sure isn't a gun I want to have in my cabinet. But I don't shoot 600yrd shots on live game. Can't see that good any more.


You'd be amazed my friend...




I know... Never underestimate the ability of some folks to truly screw the pooch on anything.

I have a pile of broken anvils of my own to point at as examples...
 
Back bored mil surp rifles are noticeable. The last several inches of rifling tends to get damaged from use and poor treatment by conscripts. Because this is the last rifling a bullet encounters, it can screw up accuracy. So they would essentially bore back from the muzzle to hit good rifling. This would often bring accuracy back to withing standards. You can see this as the last couple inches of the bore will be bigger and smooth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top