TGMO,HGMO, PP, QSUD or M1 0W-20?

[fdcg27]

Having bought a '12 Accord 4cyl, I'll need to select a 0W-20.
Out of these oils, from what I've read here, TGMO seems like the best choice.
It really goes against my past practice to leave the FF in a new engine beyond 1K, but Honda is very specific in stating that it should be left in for the entire MM interval.
Honda started using a special breakin oil in 1996, though, and I can tell you that I drained the FF of the '99 at 1K and then put it on an M1 5W-30 diet for a number of OCIs, with no ill effects 160K later.
I'm thinking that the FF should probably come out at around 30% MM, and I'm thinking that I'll then do a couple of similar runs using near FAR PP and QSUD, and will then settle on an oil to use long-term.
I don't think there's any point in a UOA before 20K and a FF UOA would only be good for frightening small children.
What would all of you think about using TGMO?
Also, while I know that the subject has been beaten to death, how long have other K24 owners run the FF oil?

 

[skyship]

If in doubt read the owners manual, if it says change the FF at 10K miles or whatever the figure is, don't try and second guess them as FF oil is real strange stuff with very odd additives.
You are right that a UOA for a new engine will scare the children, but we are used to the odd horror story, so go ahead and see if we scream.

 

[Oil Changer]

Search my user name, it will answer all your questions and save me alot of time.

Cliff notes:

I'm going to use Mazda's new oil when time to drain the TGMO.

Drain the FF between 5000 and 7000 miles. Depending on use, the FF will be pretty used up.

 

[fdcg27]

Based upon UOAs here, the FF is loaded with moly, but then part of that would come from assembly lube and the coated piston skirts.
Since we all know that a FF UOA will be a thin stew of wear metals from breakin and minute quantities of machining debris, there's no point to it.
A UOA isn't going to tell you much until the engine settles down to its typical wear levels.
I may UOA the FF anyway, just to scare myself.

 

[LeakySeals]

UOA's on your good choices, let the engine decide. Will be interesting to follow if you do that.

 

[fdcg27]

I suspect that the primary difference between the oils above in a series of UOAs would consist of differences in the additive levels and maybe residual TBN.
I doubt that wear metals would vary by any meaningful amount between them.

 

[LeakySeals]

OK. Reason I mentioned it - back when I was looking for an oil for the Pontiac I automatically thought M1, the Toyota has been running good on it. But looking at the UOA's (M1 5w30)...Toyota looks good. GM shows elevated copper where PP was normal on copper. if the numbers actually mean anything the GM 3800 prefers PP but the Toyota I4 doesn't care between the 2.

 

[Boss302fan]

I used PP in my daughters 2000 CRV 4 banger(first 60K was on Mobil 1) and it ran fantastic. When we adjusted the valves at 60K and 120K the engine looked like new. Mobil 1 and PP kept it clean.

 

[fdcg27]

OTOH, in the case of your 3.8, there was a difference.
I've had consistently good results with PP in other engines, and I know that simply using PP 0W-20 would yield the same.

 

[The Critic]

I service a 2011 LX-P for one of my friends. The OLM usually gets down to 15% by 10k. This seems to be the case with a lot of the recent Honda products, period.

I used PP 0w20 in it at the last service. I would probably run M1 0w20 if I had a choice, since buster is claiming that the chemistry is the most-advanced on the market.

Tip on oil changes: remove the oil filter first, then the drain plug, reinstall the drain plug, then install the oil filter last. If you use OE Honda filters you may be able to remove the plug and the filter as separate operations, but with aftermarket filters, you won't have enough clearance if you're using a ratchet + socket to remove the plug.

 

[CATERHAM]

If you want to change the FF oil early and stick with a high moly oil then go with the new Mazda GF-5 high moly (about 650 ppm) 0W-20 (VI 221). TGMO is great but the Idemitsu made Mazda oil is nice alternative.

 

[fdcg27]

Holy moly!
Nice VI as well.
The Japanese OEM branded oils seem to have pretty high moly across the board.
I'm guessing that they have a good reason for this formulation.

 

[PSE]

Holy moly!
Nice VI as well.
The Japanese OEM branded oils seem to have pretty high moly across the board.
I'm guessing that they have a good reason for this formulation.


They've developed the high VI 0w20 for Japanese domestic and California Emissions.

 

[fdcg27]

Thanks for the tip.
I have always drained the sump and then removed the filter.
On this one, I guess I'll remove the filter first.
The first change on an unfamiliar engine is often a little bit of a challenge, and removing the original oil filter almost always is.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Thanks for the tip.
I have always drained the sump and then removed the filter.
On this one, I guess I'll remove the filter first.
The first change on an unfamiliar engine is often a little bit of a challenge, and removing the original oil filter almost always is.


If you use a boxed end wrench you might not have a problem with clearance, but with a ratchet + socket you will - esp if you use a PureOne.

I've never found the factory filter to be overly tight at all- just use a 64mm metal cup wrench. Usually they're less tight compared to how tight I install my filters!

 

[fdcg27]

Okay, that explains the high VI.
What about the huge slug of moly?

 

[HARTZSKY]

I ran the factory fill on my 09 Accord til around 7,000 miles. As we speak, it has 61,000 miles on it and has been given nothing but Mobil 1 0W-20 and Carquest premium blue oil filters. So far so good, the car runs great.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, that explains the high VI.
What about the huge slug of moly?

A high organic moly level approaching 700 ppm reduces the CoF of an oil. According to Adeka Sakura-Lube, the Japanese moly supplier, it will increase fuel economy as much as 1.7%, that's in addition to the 2% average fuel savings attributed to the ultra high VI alone.

 

[fdcg27]

So an improvement in fuel economy of nearly 4%?
This would represent a savings in fuel costs sufficient to pay for the oil change over even a conservative 6K OCI.
Wow!