Rules for buying a shotgun out of state

[Tom NJ]

I am a resident of NJ (live here more than six months out of the year), but I also own a second house in Virginia and spend several months a year there. Because the VA house is very rural, I want to buy a shotgun for home defense. Two different Walmarts said no problem, but another licensed gun store said I need to have an NJ FID to make the purchase.

Virginia does not require a permit to purchase a long gun, but Federal law states that a licensed gun dealer may sell "any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States."

The gray area here seems to be the statement "fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States." NJ requires an FID to buy any gun in NJ (not to possess, just to buy), but I am not buying in NJ. Further, I intend to keep the shotgun in the VA house and will not bring it to NJ.

I believe the different positions between Walmart and the gun shop is their interpretation of this phrase. Can anyone bring some clarity to the need for a NJ FID to buy a shotgun in VA?

Tom NJ

 

[Trav]

Tom i have no idea but be careful. A friend of mine came from Texas with his legally bought gun, make a real long story short.
No crime was committed but they charged him with interstate transportation of a firearm and he did a year and a day in the Fed pen.

He had no record or anything else and had a Massachusetts firearms license. He sold the gun and i guess thats when things got funny and brought the feds down on him.

 

[JHZR2]

Ive bought long guns out of state before, and have always had a requirement to produce NJ FID card. The basis of it being kept at a location other than your domecile is unfortunately irrelevant it seems, since your official citizenship is NJ and thus the assumption is that it will end up there, I suppose.

For BB guns, which believe it or not you still need an FID in NJ to purchase; Ive bought them without showing any ID or documentation at all in PA. But there is no Federal requirement for them AFAIK.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if you went to Walmart in VA with an NJ DL and tried to purchase... If they would just log the DL number and leave it at that, or if they would give you an issue further into the process. IIRC, NJ contacts the NJSP, but if in VA, only the FBI is contacted, who knows? Not that Im advocating anything illegal in any way.

An FID allows unlimited purchase of long guns, but each handgun must have its own purchase approval granted, which requires a mental health background check and paperwork done by the local PD. There is a limit on handguns per round of approval forms.

Also AFAIK, prior ownership and transfer of personnaly owned firearms upon a move into NJ do not demand registration (maybe an FID though) unless the jurisdiction specifically requires it. The ID cards are really just for acquisition. Not that Id be keen on transporting a firearm (long gun or handgun) without the FID card.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Tom i have no idea but be careful. A friend of mine came from Texas with his legally bought gun, make a real long story short.
No crime was committed but they charged him with interstate transportation of a firearm and he did a year and a day in the Fed pen.

He had no record or anything else and had a Massachusetts firearms license. He sold the gun and i guess thats when things got funny and brought the feds down on him.


Scary. Did he sell the gun to someone in MA?

AFAIK, even for handguns, there is limited recordkeeping even within NJ. Might be wrong there though...

There was a story of a guy in NJ incarcerated during his move to the state with a legal firearm. Not sure if he had gotten the FID card yet or what though...

Careful is the key word.

 

[jjjxlr8]

The fact that you have a second house in VA really doesn't matter here. The dealer has to(or should!)go by the requirements of your legal State of residency.

 

[SEMI_287]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Tom i have no idea but be careful. A friend of mine came from Texas with his legally bought gun, make a real long story short.
No crime was committed but they charged him with interstate transportation of a firearm and he did a year and a day in the Fed pen.

He had no record or anything else and had a Massachusetts firearms license. He sold the gun and i guess thats when things got funny and brought the feds down on him.


That is absolutely asinine.

 

[tdpark]

That is crazy as you are allowed to transport your own weapons across state lines while traveling as long as they are properly stored.

 

[Brian Barnhart]

Originally Posted By: jjjxlr8
The fact that you have a second house in VA really doesn't matter here. The dealer has to(or should!)go by the requirements of your legal State of residency.


+1

FFL holders (dealers) must abide by the rules of the State where you reside, even if the firearm is purchased in a border state.

Not sure what the law is for a NJ resident temporarily staying in VA, buying from an individual who resides in VA, and not transporting the firearm out of VA.

 

[ammolab]

The ATF recognizes dual residency. This allows persons such as College students, Military personnel and people that have homes in two states to buy guns in either location.

Google: ATF Dual residency and see if that helps you.

Of course many FFLs will not know about this or care to study up and see just what documents you will need to prove your other state residency.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: ammolab
Of course many FFLs will not know about this or care to study up and see just what documents you will need to prove your other state residency.


Exactly! I was aware of this Federal rule but teaching the dealer a new trick can be difficult. I can show them my deed but I don't have a photo ID issued by VA, which is what they require. Probably best to just buy it at Walmart since they seem willing to sell.

Thanks!

Tom NJ

 

[bobbob]

Here's the bottom line: I will have a shotgun to protect my
family regardless of where I live, I will worry about the
consequences later!

 

[Brian Barnhart]

If you are a legal resident of VA, only the Federal, state(VA) and local laws apply when you purchase a firearm from a VA dealer.

If you are not a legal resident of VA, but are a legal resident of NJ, you can purchase a rifle or shotgun from a dealer in VA, but the laws of both states (and Virginia locale) apply.

From the ATF website:

Q: May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of another State?

A: Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.

[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3)]