'04 Corolla timing chain noise

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Recently started hearing a clicking noise at idle and just as you start off and took it to an honest local mechanic I know. After removing the fan belt which was well worn with 170K on it, and ruling out water pump and such, he decided it was the timing chain. Long story short: 6-8 hrs labor and nearly $500 worth of parts. According to him, it might just keep clicking for long time or potentially could break anytime. Dang it, I like that car, its clean, good shape, uses very little oil, but am not inclined to spend $1000 on it either. Was thinking maybe this spring I'd get a new Accord or something so I guess i'll keep driving it till then. Might sell it outright but will give buyer the info on the chain. Some guys can do that kind of work and it might be a deal for them.
 
Very rare event, unheard of for a Toyota to lose a chain. Replace the timing chain tensioner first. What oil you been running and how long is your oil change interval? I wont ask if you change it on time, nobody will say they don't. The vvt-i system can cause ticks if deposits are allowed co build up. .
 
The tensioner may be worn. But if you get to it, the chain is only a little more work. [Also gears]
 
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Chains and tensioners do wear out eventually, and this is an example of it.

Yes, people get all happy about not having a timing belt that requires replacement at predetermined intervals, but when timing chains fail, they are often a lot more expensive to replace.
 
Agree with others in general, but this is a Toyota specific issue. assume its a 1zz-fe 1.8L. The timing chain tensioner can be replaced externally, not anywhere close to the complications of the the timing chain on a vvt-i engine. One bolt, plug and play. Its in the back left/top corner of the engine. http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframec...1846374-2793933

As stated prior, losing a timing chain is unheard of at any mileage on these engines. Yours mileage is relatively low. Not impossible, but last on the list. Its almost always the tensioner or the guides. very common.

What is the common cause of the tensioner failing? They really don't fail they clog with oil deposits and don't open correctly. The tensioner uses oil hydraulics from the vvti- oil galleys to set tension. Replacing the tensioner is cheating, replacing a part rather than cleaning the engine.
 
LeakySeals: You've really got my attention now with possibility it may only be the tensioner. Would a "bad" tensioner produce that rythematic (sp?) clik, clik, clik sound at idle.....sorta like a tappet clicking?

Secondly, might it be useful to run a can of Kreen thru to clean things?

Heck, for $20 plus labor for a tensioner, it could be a real life saver for the Corolla.
 
I can't answer that, other than the noise sounds like a loose chain at idle. Going with the mechanics opinion of the noise. From experience with this/toyota engines I'm taking you through the most common/cheapest reasons before actually replacing a chain.

It won't be consistant, because the tensioner will be getting more or less oil pressure at times, putting more or less tension on the chain. At idle its most noticeable, because there is less oil pressure leading to less tension on the chain.

Ticking in general, especially a 1-2 second rattle at cold startup would also suggest a clogging of the vvt-i system. The vvt-i controller (with the timing chain wrapped around it) advances/retards cam phase which would lead to quite a bit of ticking in general. This controller is also vulnerable to deposits, can hang up until its warm.

So..I would first clean the engine to rule out deposits. Kreen would be my choice.. If that doesn't fix things within a few thousand miles I would try replacing the tensioner and a replacement Oil control valve screen. Then I would go for the chain and chain guides after exhausting these methods.

Also keep in mind thick oil would make things worse if there are deposits in these tiny oil gallies. A 5w30 synthetic will keep things clean.
 
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LeakySeals: thanks for comprehensive reply. I took it today to another independant mech and he listened to it with the stethescope and then called over a friend of his, also a mechanic that had stopped by to consult with him on another car. That Mech also listened and jointly they said the chain was bad, prob the tensioner and guides as well and predicted short life if left unrepaired. I just not willing to put $1000 plus into it at this point.

With that, I think I'll have to bite the bullet and get a new car that I wanted to put off till next year or later. Am looking at the '13 Accord 4 cyl. Checked out the Camry and didn't like the way it drove and don't like looks of new Altima (love our 07 tho). Drove a Kia last year and thot it had too much road noise.
Like the looks of the Passat but no local dealers avail should I need service.
 
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Originally Posted By: The Critic
Chains and tensioners do wear out eventually, and this is an example of it.

Yes, people get all happy about not having a timing belt that requires replacement at predetermined intervals, but when timing chains fail, they are often a lot more expensive to replace.


I LIKE belts. This is one of the reasons.
 
Friendly Jacket: the fan belt was seriously worn and needed replacing anyway so the Mech removed it to check the water pump.

Much apprec the video and advice but I'm not capable of doing that kind of work. I envy you guys who can! Creeping age and back issues make it difficult for me to do much more than oil changes and occasionally spark plugs.
 
Originally Posted By: tc1446
Friendly Jacket: the fan belt was seriously worn and needed replacing anyway so the Mech removed it to check the water pump.

Much apprec the video and advice but I'm not capable of doing that kind of work. I envy you guys who can! Creeping age and back issues make it difficult for me to do much more than oil changes and occasionally spark plugs.


He's questioning your terminology. It's not a fan belt, as it doesn't drive a fan. It's an accessory belt.
smile.gif


Is there anyway the ticking is from valve clearances being out of spec?
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic

Yes, people get all happy about not having a timing belt that requires replacement at predetermined intervals, but when timing chains fail, they are often a lot more expensive to replace.


But, how much more? Of course, it depends on the application, but on a lot of cars I think two or three timing belts would cost more than replacing the timing chain.
 
Originally Posted By: MarkM66

Is there anyway the ticking is from valve clearances being out of spec?


When valves wear in Toyotas, albeit slowly, they become too tight rather than too loose and make no noise but can leak and burn.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: MarkM66

Is there anyway the ticking is from valve clearances being out of spec?


When valves wear in Toyotas, albeit slowly, they become too tight rather than too loose and make no noise but can leak and burn.


Can you explain how clearances would become tighter from wear?
 
The seats wear, so the valve sits deeper and the stem is closer to the cam, wear continues until the clearance is too tight, then it doesn't seat at all, and it gets hot (valves survive by transferring heat to the seat) and starts to burn and leak...

You don't have to check often, every 60 - 90K, but you do have to check...

FWIW - I run 5W30 synthetic and the engine purrs with over 100K on it...very clean inside...
 
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Valve faces and seats can recede into each other, causing tighter clearances, net.
It does not happen nearly as often as it did before hardened seats and modern great valve materials, but it can.
 
There are a couple of other possibilities before doing the tensioner.
There is a VVT filter behind the alternator on the head that gets plugged up.
I did one of these 04's last summer with a bad rattle. It was from a loose part in the plastic intake manifold, it sounds just like a loose cam chain, its a very common problem.

This is a good article on the issue with the fix.

http://gorup-sinkovec.net/diy/rattling-noise-in-toyota-corolla-intake-manifold-solved/
 
I should have added that I checked the valve clearance on the Corolla at 90K...and it was spot-on.

No wear in the first 90K. I'll check again around 180K.

I own a stethoscope...it really helps with noises...there can be surprises in the source of noises...
 
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