ZDP & PS Diesel Lube Oil Extender

Bill Plock · Oct 2, 2004

ZDP & PS Diesel Lube Oil Extender

My apologies if this has been discussed before but has anyone considered using Power Service Diesel Lube Oil Extender? I recently noticed it on the shelf at the local Tractor Supply and then found it on the Power Service website. I noticed the local Wal-Mart is also selling it. It looked interesting so I requested an MSDS and it specifically states "This product contains zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP)". The MSDS also states that it contains "30 to 40 % ORGANIC DETERGENTS, DISPERSANTS AND CORROSIVE INHIBITORS and 40 to 50% PARAFFINIC OIL". It also doesn’t appear to contain any VI improvers – looks like oil ... not very thick in the bottle like treatments that do contain VI improvers. Anyone have any thoughts on using this product to add a little ZDP to M1 5w30 or other oils? I was considering sending in a sample for a VOA.

Snips from the MSDS are as follows:

“MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
Required under USDL Safety and Health Regulations

SECTION I - CHEMICAL COMPANY AND PRODUCT IDENTIFICATION

POWER SERVICE PRODUCTS
P.O. BOX 1089
WEATHERFORD, TEXAS 76086
817/599-9486 e-mail: [email protected]

Product Name: DIESEL LUBE OIL EXTENDER
Generic/Chemical Name: PETROLEUM PRODUCT ADDITIVE
MSDS Preparation Date: April 9, 2003 - supersedes August 8, 2002
Emergency Phone Number: 800/424-9300

SECTION II - COMPOSITION/INFORMATION OF INGREDIENTS

INGREDIENT PERCENT
ORGANIC DETERGENTS, DISPERSANTS
AND CORROSIVE INHIBITORS 30-40
PARAFFINIC OIL 50-60

This product is hazardous as defined in 29 CFR1010.1200, based on the following compositional information.

OSHA HAZARD COMPONENT
Eye Irritant Zinc salt of dialkyl dithiophosphoric acid

SECTION IX - PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES

BOILING POINT …………………………………….. 500°F
VAPOR PRESSURE (mmHG)………………………… Negligible at Ambient
DENSITY at deg F…………………………………… 7.9 lbs./gal at 60
SOLUBILITY IN WATER ……………………………. Negligible
SPECIFIC GRAVITY of VAPOR(H2O =1) ………….. Greater than Air
SPECIFIC GRAVITY @ deg F………………………… .95 at 60 typical
PERCENT, VOLATILE BY VOLUME (%) …………. 100
VAPORATION RATE ……………………………….. Negligible
FREEZING/MELTING POINT, deg F……………….. Less than Ambient

This product contains the following Section 313 Reportable Ingredients:

COMPONENT: Zinc Compounds 10.0% MAX

Notes:
This product contains zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP)...”

mkosem · Oct 3, 2004

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000291

Bill Plock · Oct 3, 2004

Thanks for the Link! ...

Anyone using this stuff?

TallPaul · Aug 2, 2005

I have the same question, "Anybody using this stuff?" I would get some, but have a lot of other additives to use up first. Now that we have a VOA Power service Diesel Lube Oil Extender VOA, maybe we can get some serious discussion going. It shows mainly:
Calcium: 6281 ppm
Magnesium:736 ppm
Phosphorus: 3548 ppm
Zinc: 3357 ppm

Best of all, it only has a viscosity of 20 cSt at 100C, so it won't appreciably thicken your oil. And the other good part, only $19 for a 3 quart jug at Walmart.

qadsan · Aug 2, 2005

WOW! Are those numbers right for zinc and Phorphorous? I wonder if it would be any good in off road racing applications with that much zinc and phosphorous?

TallPaul · Aug 2, 2005

I am thinking of using it when my supply (two 15 oz bottles left) of STP 6000-Mile Oil Extender (now discontinued) runs out. The STP stuff was nice because it was thin like the Powerservice stuff and had zddp (not sure how much though).

mdocod · Aug 4, 2005

i wonder- if this is the kinda thing that should be reserved for "in-a-pinch" type situations. where you need to make a sudden emergency 1000 mile trip and don't have time for an oil change. Or if it could be used as an honest to goodness OCI extender on a regular basis. (like, take amsoil, and add this stuff every 10k with new filter and use it for 40-50k). hehe.

DriveHard · Aug 4, 2005

I wonder if it would be a good additive to increase the protection of a HD oil in a marine application if added at every oil change. Does anybody see a problem with this?

TallPaul · Sep 22, 2005

Has anybody yet picked some of this stuff up and given it a try?

bruce381 · Sep 22, 2005

sounds like a typical PCMO or HDEO "add package"
diluted with a base oil thus the low vis.

Normal Additive package would have a vis of 120 Cst and much higher ZDDP etc. Just sounds like a dilute add pak.
bruce

TallPaul · Sep 22, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by bruce381:
sounds like a typical PCMO or HDEO "add package"
diluted with a base oil thus the low vis.

Normal Additive package would have a vis of 120 Cst and much higher ZDDP etc. Just sounds like a dilute add pak.
bruce

That's perfect! I always wondered when someone says you are replenishing the additives by topping up, since it is such a small quantity of new oil to spread the additives over the whole crankcase full. Better to use the Powerservice stuff for topping up. Then your additives should stay level if not somewhat increasing.

mdocod · Sep 22, 2005

would be interesting to see someone take a good synthetic oil, like maybe delvac 1, amsoil, or something like that.... getting a UOA at 10k, then calculating the amount of PS to add to bring the add-pack back up to somewhere around where it started, then continue running the oil and getting UOAs every 10k or so, adding PS each time untill the levels of wear metals became too high for comfort floating around in the oil.. or perhaps with a bypass filter system to help eliminate extremally small debrees... would be an interesting test.

The idea of a strong base oil, supplemented by add-pack boosters, and a really good bypass filtration system, maybe someday we'll be seeing cars going 100k on oil changes, lol.

Bill Plock · Sep 22, 2005

A few months ago the Local Wal-Mart and Tractor supply were clearing out their supplies of PS Diesel Lube Oil Extender so I bought several 3qt jugs at bargain prices. Initially my thoughts were to use it as a ZDP supplement to the M1-5w30 I in my Impala's 3.4L V6. I added 8oz at each of two 3kmile oil changes but didn't notice any difference in UOA results. Since I’m not inclined to increase the treat level I've decided not to use it in the 3.4L.. (I'm thinking I’ll just switch to M1 T&SUV for the 3.4L).

However, since then I started using the PS DLOE to top off the M1-T&SUV in my 03 Duramax Diesel between oil changes (it uses about ½ to 1 qt in 7.5 kmiles depending on driving conditions). The TBN and additive levels in the latest 7.5K mile UOA do look slightly better than previous UOA’s with a 5kmi drain interval. I’ll probably continue to use the PS DLOE for topping off the M1 T&SUV in the Duramax until it’s depleted. I may even continue to increase drain intervals (hard for me

)…

mkosem · Sep 24, 2005

My neighbor uses it in his Kubota tractor! It supposedly allows him a full season OCI, but he doesn't analyze so who knows what it's doing. I'll grab some next change. I figure 4qt of M1 T/SUV and .5qt of this stuff should make for an interesting run in my TDI.

--Matt

bruce381 · Sep 24, 2005

new product use a 100% full flow 1 micron filter with a water absorbing filter never change oil just top off as needed and every 3 months or so add a cup of a fully formulated DI package to replace worn out additives.

Maybe a diatomasious??(spelling not my strong suite) earth bypass filter to polish the oil and you have a never change other than filters oil system. Kinda like that ??STP oil filter that had a bit of Additive in the filter to re fortify the oil as it was filtered anyone rmember that?
bruce

2000 MULES · Sep 25, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by bruce381:
sounds like a typical PCMO or HDEO "add package"
diluted with a base oil thus the low vis.

Normal Additive package would have a vis of 120 Cst and much higher ZDDP etc. Just sounds like a dilute add pak.
bruce

Would there be any negative interactions mixing

ZDP & PS Diesel Lube Oil Extender mixed
with VSOT and Schaeffer #132?

bruce381 · Sep 26, 2005

do not know but since I do not have the formula for these be smart and say NO
bruce

MolaKule · Sep 26, 2005

Where did you get the ZDDP?

I don't see any advantages in your mix.

Be aware that certain OCP's can polymerize with certain di-esters. You don't want that gunk in your oil.

bruce381 · Sep 27, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
Where did you get the ZDDP?

I don't see any advantages in your mix.

Be aware that certain OCP's can polymerize with certain di-esters. You don't want that gunk in your oil.

"Where did you get the ZDDP?"

I do not understand the product in question has ZDDP listed on the MSDS.

"OCP's can polymerize with certain di-esters."

Where are the di esters?

Are we still taliking about this additive or as most offten did I loose track?
bruce

MolaKule · Sep 27, 2005

quote:

Would there be any negative interactions mixing ZDP & PS Diesel Lube Oil Extender mixed
with VSOT and Schaeffer #132?

My question exactly, since Power Service Products of Weatherford Texas produces this stuff and out of the blue the title includes ZDP which I took to mean ZDDP and PSP's Diesel Lube Oil extender. I assumed he either meant that it contained ZDDP (which it does), OR he had some extra ZDDP to mix with it. Just wanted a clarification?

As far as the esters and OCP thickeners, I suggest you do some research on polymers. Certain di-esters and OCP's can polymerize to form a goo, especially when cooled. I can almost gurantee there is some OCP VII in the mix.

Some PCMO's and HDD's contain di-esters that are used as PPD's and/or lubricity agents. If they do, the correct VII's AND dispersants have to be used. Since we don't know what dispersants and VII's are used in the customer's HDDs, we risk creating cold morning goo.

ZDP & PS Diesel Lube Oil Extender

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