When I learned about this method many years ago I was told to put the positive lead to earth and negative into the coolant or brake fluid reservoir.
Electrolysis Reading
- Thread starter Fordiesel69
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Well, I think for now I have my electrolysis under control. It was a monster to defeat.
It required 1 bottle of san carlos raditator "flusher" for 100 miles over a three day period. Then 2 bottles of motorcraft VC-1 premium flush over a 5 day period. I didn;t count the miles but estimate 100-200. Then replacement of ALL rubber hoses, as the buildup would not come off. I backflushed each part of the cooling system and a whole lot of ground up sea shell looking stuff came out. Especially the oil cooler and lower block hose. I then ran the engine with a steady supply of city water flowing into the top of the radiator, and allowed the engine to pump it out the top hose and the heater supply hose. After about an hour I assumed it was rinsed good enough. I refilled with G-05 Ford Premium Gold as it was less expensive than zerex.
So here are my numbers:
Cold Engine Off = -0.034 vdc
Hot Engine On = 0.046 vdc
5 Hr Drive Engine On = 0.063 vdc
So with these numbers, is my problem pretty much solved?
**BTW, our local shop and san carlos radiator do not like deionized water or distilled as they tend to seek out ions. I don;t know what to beleive, but in defense to out local cty water, it is one of the highest quality municiple water sources. I have used distilled water in the past and have had a lot of repeat heater core failures. So this time I tried city water.
It required 1 bottle of san carlos raditator "flusher" for 100 miles over a three day period. Then 2 bottles of motorcraft VC-1 premium flush over a 5 day period. I didn;t count the miles but estimate 100-200. Then replacement of ALL rubber hoses, as the buildup would not come off. I backflushed each part of the cooling system and a whole lot of ground up sea shell looking stuff came out. Especially the oil cooler and lower block hose. I then ran the engine with a steady supply of city water flowing into the top of the radiator, and allowed the engine to pump it out the top hose and the heater supply hose. After about an hour I assumed it was rinsed good enough. I refilled with G-05 Ford Premium Gold as it was less expensive than zerex.
So here are my numbers:
Cold Engine Off = -0.034 vdc
Hot Engine On = 0.046 vdc
5 Hr Drive Engine On = 0.063 vdc
So with these numbers, is my problem pretty much solved?
**BTW, our local shop and san carlos radiator do not like deionized water or distilled as they tend to seek out ions. I don;t know what to beleive, but in defense to out local cty water, it is one of the highest quality municiple water sources. I have used distilled water in the past and have had a lot of repeat heater core failures. So this time I tried city water.
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Originally Posted By: Fordiesel69
Chnage you meter range to allow for a display like this.
0.431
Not just 0.4
There is either a dial, or a button to select a range.
I used 2V setting on my digital meter, I just rounded it up when I wrote the post.
Chnage you meter range to allow for a display like this.
0.431
Not just 0.4
There is either a dial, or a button to select a range.
I used 2V setting on my digital meter, I just rounded it up when I wrote the post.
Originally Posted By: AVB
I am not sure why your fins are grounded if you have plastic tanks. That part doesn't mean much, on older cars with metal tanks you could connect a test light from battery positive to the upper radiator hose clamp and it will light up.
Radiator is not grounded by design. That's why you'd have a voltage reading.
I am not sure why your fins are grounded if you have plastic tanks. That part doesn't mean much, on older cars with metal tanks you could connect a test light from battery positive to the upper radiator hose clamp and it will light up.
Radiator is not grounded by design. That's why you'd have a voltage reading.
Fordiesel69,
That's quite a bit of work. But glad you are in control.
I've always using distilled water for coolant change/refill.
Why do you think the radiator shop does not like distilled water? I don't understand the part that says "distilled water tends to seek out ions". What water should we use? Mazda dealer sells gen-1 long-life coolant only in full strength, and gen-2 stuff (FL-22) only in mixed.
That's quite a bit of work. But glad you are in control.
I've always using distilled water for coolant change/refill.
Why do you think the radiator shop does not like distilled water? I don't understand the part that says "distilled water tends to seek out ions". What water should we use? Mazda dealer sells gen-1 long-life coolant only in full strength, and gen-2 stuff (FL-22) only in mixed.
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Originally Posted By: Silk
When I learned about this method many years ago I was told to put the positive lead to earth and negative into the coolant or brake fluid reservoir.
I tend not to think too much about the polarity now, just the magnitude of the voltage. I'd like to get it as low as possible.
When I learned about this method many years ago I was told to put the positive lead to earth and negative into the coolant or brake fluid reservoir.
I tend not to think too much about the polarity now, just the magnitude of the voltage. I'd like to get it as low as possible.
Originally Posted By: windeye
Originally Posted By: AVB
I am not sure why your fins are grounded if you have plastic tanks. That part doesn't mean much, on older cars with metal tanks you could connect a test light from battery positive to the upper radiator hose clamp and it will light up.
Radiator is not grounded by design. That's why you'd have a voltage reading.
Yeah, I realized that after I thought about it.
Originally Posted By: AVB
I am not sure why your fins are grounded if you have plastic tanks. That part doesn't mean much, on older cars with metal tanks you could connect a test light from battery positive to the upper radiator hose clamp and it will light up.
Radiator is not grounded by design. That's why you'd have a voltage reading.
Yeah, I realized that after I thought about it.
Originally Posted By: windeye
Fordiesel69,
That's quite a bit of work. But glad you are in control.
I've always using distilled water for coolant change/refill.
Why do you think the radiator shop does not like distilled water? I don't understand the part that says "distilled water tends to seek out ions". What water should we use? Mazda dealer sells gen-1 long-life coolant only in full strength, and gen-2 stuff (FL-22) only in mixed.
Its too much for me to comprehend, but municiple water will have some minerals that can over time clog the radiator if not maintained. I can only say that the reason local shops don;t use it is becasue they say so, I really don;t have proof as to the real reason. Maybe its just a matter of convenience, or the fact they don;t want to pay for distilled. They stated they had more issues when they used it. Maybe thats a way to sell themselves.
But the FACT that bothers me, is that I am always OCD and use ditilled water and have problems. When I have flushed friends cars they are always in a hurry and want me to get it done so I used hose water. Their heater cores are still going on there factory ones, mine isn;t. That is the only diffference. So I truly don;t know.
Fordiesel69,
That's quite a bit of work. But glad you are in control.
I've always using distilled water for coolant change/refill.
Why do you think the radiator shop does not like distilled water? I don't understand the part that says "distilled water tends to seek out ions". What water should we use? Mazda dealer sells gen-1 long-life coolant only in full strength, and gen-2 stuff (FL-22) only in mixed.
Its too much for me to comprehend, but municiple water will have some minerals that can over time clog the radiator if not maintained. I can only say that the reason local shops don;t use it is becasue they say so, I really don;t have proof as to the real reason. Maybe its just a matter of convenience, or the fact they don;t want to pay for distilled. They stated they had more issues when they used it. Maybe thats a way to sell themselves.
But the FACT that bothers me, is that I am always OCD and use ditilled water and have problems. When I have flushed friends cars they are always in a hurry and want me to get it done so I used hose water. Their heater cores are still going on there factory ones, mine isn;t. That is the only diffference. So I truly don;t know.
I checked our 4 cars with the Multi-meter. I got readings all over the place.
If I read the coolant from the radiator, I got 0.05-0.10
If I read the coolant from the overflow, I got 0.00
Next cars were all over the map and so-on!
At best, I got reading on every car...0.00-0.05
At worst, I got reading that were bouncing all over and even into the minus.
If I read the coolant from the radiator, I got 0.05-0.10
If I read the coolant from the overflow, I got 0.00
Next cars were all over the map and so-on!
At best, I got reading on every car...0.00-0.05
At worst, I got reading that were bouncing all over and even into the minus.
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When I checked with the black (negative) lead on the negative terminal of the battery and the red lead in the coolant, I got a reading of 0.871 on the Grand Marquis. Running 2 bottles of Prestone Super Radiator Flush for 3 days now, and the coolant (Motorcraft G-05) has considerably gotten darker (it's Dexcool orange right now).
Going to flush and run the Prestone Flush for another couple of days for another two rounds before replacing everything from the overflow tank to the heater core hoses. Will refill with JD CG-II.
Going to flush and run the Prestone Flush for another couple of days for another two rounds before replacing everything from the overflow tank to the heater core hoses. Will refill with JD CG-II.
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I checked our 4 cars with the Multi-meter. I got readings all over the place.
If I read the coolant from the radiator, I got 0.05-0.10
If I read the coolant from the overflow, I got 0.00
Next cars were all over the map and so-on!
At best, I got reading on every car...0.00-0.05
At worst, I got reading that were bouncing all over and even into the minus.
I made many measurements lately, and found the same thing. When car sits for 6 hours, coolant to ground reads -0.19v, but after another 12 hours sitting, it reads -0.28v. Even at the same time, if I wipe the probe in coolant (positive probe)and re-insert, it would measure a higher value. I once tried to stick two probes in water in the sink, a few inches apart, it reads 0.25v; it also reads 0.5v from water to faucet.
I took out my old analogue meter, it reads zero in water/faucet test. It reads zero from coolant to ground. It only reads a voltage from radiator to ground, which seems to agree with digital meter.
So I've given up the measurement. But I am not denying the physics of electrolysis and galvanic effect. I am relying on the coolant test strips to monitor pH value of the coolant. My car is 12 years old with the original heater core and the second radiator. It's an all-aluminum system. Reason for radiator replacement was not due to corrosion but due to a hair line crack on the hot side tank (plastic) near the fan shroud mount. pH is currently at about 7.2 (fresh coolant is at 7.7, Motorcraft specialty green or Mazda FL-22). Coolant is about 2.5 years.
One thing that's consistent from the digital meter is as follows:
1. Radiator has lower potential than coolant and than ground (block, chasis etc)
2. Coolant has lower potential than ground
3. Coolant has lower potential then heater core
4. Heater core has same potential as ground (not exactly, but voltage is in a few mV's. Resistenct btw heater and ground is 1.3K Ohms).
So I don't have stray current, ground is good. Otherwise coolant would have higher potential than ground.
Heater core and radiator are electrically insulated (no ground). So I am not worried about any galvanic effect simply because the system is an open circuit, like a battery without any external connection between the positive and negative posts. There's potential but no current.
That's it!
I checked our 4 cars with the Multi-meter. I got readings all over the place.
If I read the coolant from the radiator, I got 0.05-0.10
If I read the coolant from the overflow, I got 0.00
Next cars were all over the map and so-on!
At best, I got reading on every car...0.00-0.05
At worst, I got reading that were bouncing all over and even into the minus.
I made many measurements lately, and found the same thing. When car sits for 6 hours, coolant to ground reads -0.19v, but after another 12 hours sitting, it reads -0.28v. Even at the same time, if I wipe the probe in coolant (positive probe)and re-insert, it would measure a higher value. I once tried to stick two probes in water in the sink, a few inches apart, it reads 0.25v; it also reads 0.5v from water to faucet.
I took out my old analogue meter, it reads zero in water/faucet test. It reads zero from coolant to ground. It only reads a voltage from radiator to ground, which seems to agree with digital meter.
So I've given up the measurement. But I am not denying the physics of electrolysis and galvanic effect. I am relying on the coolant test strips to monitor pH value of the coolant. My car is 12 years old with the original heater core and the second radiator. It's an all-aluminum system. Reason for radiator replacement was not due to corrosion but due to a hair line crack on the hot side tank (plastic) near the fan shroud mount. pH is currently at about 7.2 (fresh coolant is at 7.7, Motorcraft specialty green or Mazda FL-22). Coolant is about 2.5 years.
One thing that's consistent from the digital meter is as follows:
1. Radiator has lower potential than coolant and than ground (block, chasis etc)
2. Coolant has lower potential than ground
3. Coolant has lower potential then heater core
4. Heater core has same potential as ground (not exactly, but voltage is in a few mV's. Resistenct btw heater and ground is 1.3K Ohms).
So I don't have stray current, ground is good. Otherwise coolant would have higher potential than ground.
Heater core and radiator are electrically insulated (no ground). So I am not worried about any galvanic effect simply because the system is an open circuit, like a battery without any external connection between the positive and negative posts. There's potential but no current.
That's it!
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Very good explanation, thank you for that
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So, am I understanding correctly after reading a few posts, that measuring the electrical potential of the coolant is a way of determining whether a type of corrosion is taking place in the cooling system?
Yes.
electrical current moves soft aluminum (an anode) to the (cathode) which is the cast iron. It uses the coolant as the electrolyte. So in simple terms, you could have a fully working battery as your cooling system if it gets bad enough.
electrical current moves soft aluminum (an anode) to the (cathode) which is the cast iron. It uses the coolant as the electrolyte. So in simple terms, you could have a fully working battery as your cooling system if it gets bad enough.
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