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#2780790 - 10/23/12 04:59 AM UOA article - what is "normal"
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5618
Loc: Indianapolis, IN


Edited by dnewton3 (10/23/12 05:45 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#2780862 - 10/23/12 08:10 AM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4268
Loc: Michigan
Is that an article that you have just posted, or has it been on BITOG for a while? Regardless, thanks for the educational read!
_________________________
1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck

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#2780889 - 10/23/12 08:41 AM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
Samilcar Offline


Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 1478
Loc: Iowa
Great article.

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#2781094 - 10/23/12 11:35 AM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: A_Harman]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5618
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Is that an article that you have just posted, or has it been on BITOG for a while? Regardless, thanks for the educational read!


Wrote the bulk of it this month on vacation; been in editing and formatting for about a week.
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#2781368 - 10/23/12 03:27 PM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
ltslimjim Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 5143
Loc: PL&F
Very nice. thumbsup
_________________________
1992 Civic VX 275k+
HG replaced, waiting to sample

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#2781508 - 10/23/12 05:49 PM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
DanMiller Offline


Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 115
Loc: Winnipeg Manitoba
Very good article, what oil do you like based on all of the UOAs you have seen ? Are you a thick or thin oil believer ?

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#2781539 - 10/23/12 06:19 PM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 26369
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Excellent article thumbsup
_________________________
Network Engineer
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#2781562 - 10/23/12 06:35 PM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
JAG Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 4532
Loc: Fredericksburg, VA
Thank you for the great article, Dave!

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#2781611 - 10/23/12 07:12 PM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29193
Loc: NJ
Thanks Dave! thumbsup
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#2781850 - 10/24/12 12:35 AM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
DanMiller Offline


Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 115
Loc: Winnipeg Manitoba
Since leaving Oil in longer is better for wear numbers would it make sense to change the Oil filter in between Oil changes ?

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#2781854 - 10/24/12 01:12 AM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7351
Loc: Saskatoon canada
That was a great article. Very enlightening. Wear rates going down as the oil gets more miles was very informative. Thank you for the enlightening information.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#2782578 - 10/24/12 06:13 PM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 9391
Loc: OH
Really informative.
We here tend to get all excited about small differences in wear metals per thousand miles, but you have put it in perspective.
Maybe the only real use of UOAs is to find gross anomalies, like coolant leaking into the engine oil, or TBN and TAN as well as shear to determine oil life.
_________________________
12 Accord LX 22K HGMO 0W-20
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#2782700 - 10/24/12 07:50 PM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: DanMiller]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25909
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: DanMiller
Since leaving Oil in longer is better for wear numbers would it make sense to change the Oil filter in between Oil changes ?

Why? Filter efficiency increases with age/miles as well.

Only if you have a seriously sludged up engine that you should change filter more frequently, but then you should not be running extended OCIs either.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
'13 F700 GS (BMW HP 15W-50)

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#2782944 - 10/25/12 01:22 AM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: Quattro Pete]
HTSS_TR Offline


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 12902
Loc: Irvine, CA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: DanMiller
Since leaving Oil in longer is better for wear numbers would it make sense to change the Oil filter in between Oil changes ?

Why? Filter efficiency increases with age/miles as well.

Only if you have a seriously sludged up engine that you should change filter more frequently, but then you should not be running extended OCIs either.

I agree. I'm thinking about leaving cartridge oil filter in the E430 for 2 OCI's of 10-12k miles each OCI. I will inspect the oil filter carefully on the next oil change and re-use it if the filter is in good shape and I don't see any debris. The capacity of the fleece filter is more than 10 grams, it is not possible for the engine to generate more than 2-3 grams in 10k miles.
_________________________
'94 LS400
'00 E430
'04 S2000
"Consumerism has accustomed us to waste. But throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pop Francis

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#2782965 - 10/25/12 04:52 AM Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5618
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
The only way to know for sure it to get some PCs done (particle count analysis).

However, I would contend this; the OEM typically is as conservative with the FCI as they are the OCI.

There are a few notable exceptions. One such example is my (new to me) 2000 Galant with 2.4L engine. The "normal" OCI is 7.5k miles and the FCI is every other oil change, hence every 15k miles. That is with any filter that meets their OEM specs. And there are a whole host of filters from Purolator, Wix, Fram, etc that meet/exceed those specs, right on Wally's shelf. I am not saying all FCIs can be extended that far, but I am saying that as long as your UOA is showing good lube and engine health, the FCI should be able to at least go as long as the OCI. Only if your soot/involubles/oxidation were the drastically escalate in the UOA, would it indicate a need for FCI.

For my vehicles in warranty, (which I'm now down to only one), I am following the OEM criteria for O/FCIs. But for my other stuff, I'm beginning to push even the "normal" OCIs out and using the same filter for that duration.

I am going to put my money where my mouth is, too. I have an upcoming trip out west; we'll be taking my 1995 Villager that has 225k miles on it, and an estimated 6k on the oil by the time we leave. I expect it will have near 10k miles on the lube when we return. I look forward to seeing the UOA when I get back. Am I nervous? You bet I am; I'm always nervous a bit when I try something new. But I have faith in my data streams and SAE studies I've read. This is solid science; just because it's hard to believe, do not make it untrue.


Edited by dnewton3 (10/25/12 04:55 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
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