Some info on gasoline brands...

[fuel tanker man]

I've been in the petroleum hauling business for over ten years now. We haul exclusively to one customer from various oil terminals in the Virginia/North Carolina area. I've been authorized to load at over a dozen terminals in a 300 mile radius in recent years. I occasionally still drive, but my normal job is dispatching ten tanker trucks to our area stations.

What I can tell you about "branded" gasoline is this: Sometimes it ain't what you think it is. And the additives which are put into the branded gasolines are added in such small amounts it may or may not have the advertised effects on your engine/fuel system.

Of course the states regulate the octane advertised on the pumps, but no agency (to my knowledge) ever checks for the additives which are purported to be present in the branded gasolines.

It then becomes possible for branded stations to sell gasoline which doesn't have the additives that the signs and commercials say that it has. This can occur when the additive injector system fails at the loading terminal, or when the terminal runs out of an additive.

Additives in gasoline are just like additives in oil; they are "added" to the base product. All gas begins as pretty much the same stuff. Regular unlead and premium for all oil terminals in a given area comes up the same pipeline. We pull off of Colonial Pipeline in this area, and a small bit off a branch pipeline called Plantation Pipeline. When Citgo, Chevron, Conoco, Amoco, Texaco, Shell, and the rest fill their huge terminal storage tanks the gas comes off the same pipeline at pretty much the same time. There is one exception: Amoco Ultimate Premium is refined an extra step, and it comes up the pipeline all by itself.

Other company's 93 octane premium fuels (I don't know anything about Sunoco fuels as they aren't distributed in my area) are the same before the additives are injected into the gasoline when it is being loaded onto the transport tanker trucks.

There are a couple of different octanes out there for what can be called "premium" gasoline. Read the pump. If it's 92, that ain't bad. 93 is better. If it's 91 I'd definitely pass. The lower octane premiums are simply cut a bit with regular unleaded. That's also where "midgrade" or "plus" gasoline comes from; it's mixed as it goes on the tanker truck--35 percent premium and 65 percent regular in most cases.

The quality of gasoline in the pipeline must meet certain standards, of course. This doesn't mean it will always be exactly the same, however.

It is possible that your car will respond well to one particular company's additive. It's possible, but I think if you really tested the notion well you'd find other explanations for why your performance and/or mileage was up/down based on your choice of gasolines. I do know that Chevron's Techron works when I pour 12 ounces into my car's tank, but I don't know if the concentration of Techron in Chevron's gasoline is high enough to really do much. Think about it: If that stuff is actually worth fifty cents an ounce, and the recommended dose is about one ounce per gallon of fuel in your tank, it would run the cost of the Chevron branded gasoline up way too much to be competitive. Unless, of course, there are only trace amounts of the Techron in the branded gas, which is the case.

When you get into unbranded gasolines you're in a "whole 'nother world." Unbranded gasoline can come from any terminal out there. It's the cheap gas of the day. This doesn't mean that the gas is no good, it simply means that if Conoco/Phillips has the best gasoline price of the day, it's a safe bet that's where your local Racetrack, Sheetz, Wilco/Hess, or fill in the blank got their fuel from.

Most of us cannot tell any real difference between Shell branded or Chevron branded gasoline and what our local chain convienience (unbranded) stores sell. And that's not surprising since the base fuel is exactly the same stuff. Shell, Chevron, and unbranded gasolines all comes up the pipeline at the same time; it's the same stuff. Only the miniscule additive package makes it any different.

We've all heard "Don't buy _______ gas because they put water in it." This is absurd for more reasons that I've got time to sit here and type out. But the most glaring flaw in this twisted logic is that gasoline and water don't mix. The water settles to the bottom of the tank. The sumps are set at 12 inches off the floors of oil terminal holding tanks and water checks are made daily (and required by law). It's nearly impossible for water to be loaded onto a gasoline tanker truck and subsequently delivered to the customer.

If you do find water in a retailer's gasoline, it got there by leaking into his ground tanks. This does happen, of course. Most newer stations have Veeder-Root tank monitoring systems these days. This system will sound an alarm if water is present in the ground tank.

So basically I just shop price for my personal gasoline. There's a chain in this area called "GO-Mart" which tends to keep the prices down. I rarely buy a full tank of gas from any branded retailer anymore. While the additives that the big gasoline retailers use are only used in very, very small amounts, they are in there. And this (along with national advertising campaigns) runs the cost of the branded gasolines up. And since I can't see any difference in my vehicles I can't justify the higher prices of the branded gasolines.

If I could recommend purchasing gas from any retailer, I would say go to the retailer that moves the most gasoline. His tanks are probably the cleanest. His gasoline is probably the freshest off the pipeline. His ground sump and dispenser filters are going to be changed much more often. Since his business plan is obviously to sell maximum volume, he'll be meticulous in keeping filters maintained, and he'll have a fuel tank monitoring system (the Veeder-Root system mentioned earlier) which will alert him if water is ever present in his tanks.

Dan

 

[Neil Womack]

Thanks for the education!

 

[427Z06]

Thanks for the post fuel_tanker_man. You pretty much reconfirm what I've been told for many years by friends that also work in that industry. Although, I am surprised to hear how diluted you think some of the adds are. I was under the impression they were in the 10-20% range of the recommended treat rate stated in the OTC products.

One other thing I would be interested to hear your take on is, general gasoline composition and additives. I recall back in the '80s when manufacturers were putting port fuel injection on more and more cars, they were running into problems with injectors clogging and heavy deposits on the intake valve. My understanding is that manufacturers went to the gasoline manufacturers and requested that they reformulate the gasoline to alleviate this problem. The gasoline producers responded and added something to all gasolines (detergents, solvents, or something) or did some additional refining which allowed the car manufacturers to increase the % of cars with port fuel injection and not suffer from the problems mentioned above. Know anything about this?

 

[HerkyJim]

Great posting!

 

[fuel tanker man]

427,

I remember a little about those problems in the 80's. I think long about then they also found out that the ethanol being put in some gasolines back then was screwing with injectors. I don't know what was going on with gas formulas back then, but I know a guy I may be able to ask. He's been in the business over 30 years. When I talk to him next I'll post what he says.

I guess in a perfect world the concentrations of propreitary additives (like Techron and others) would be in the gasolines in the amounts that are supposed to be there.

I wonder if the oil analysis labs would be able to tell what the concentration was if someone sent them a sample?

I do know that the additive injectors at the loading terminals go out of whack from time to time, but most terminals keep right on loading the gas...

Dan

 

[427Z06]

Hey fuel_tanker_man, while checking to see if I had any functioning brains cells left, I ran across this article on gasoline with references.

It's long so grab a large triple mocha latte before you start. Here's the link with some excerpts to stir the manure storm:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/Borrowed/mult_gas_faq1.htm


"Most aftermarket fuel additives are not cost-effective...If you wish to try them, remember the biggest gain is likely to be caused by the lower mass of your wallet/purse."

"other fuel additives work, especially those that are carefully formulated into the gasoline by the manufacturer at the refinery, and have often been subjected to decades-long evaluation and use"

"A typical gasoline may contain antioxidants, metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, anti-icing additives, anti-wear additives, deposit-modifying additives(usually surfactants), detergent-dispersant additives, additives that prevent cloggiing and unclog fuel injector tips, additives to prevent intake valve deposits, octane enhancers."

"While there may be some disputes amongst the various producers about relative merits, it is quite clear that premium quality fuels do have superior additive packages that help to maintain engine condition"


Enjoy!

 

[fuel tanker man]

Thanks for the link. I'll take a look tomorrow sometime as it's bedtime tonight. Looks interesting.

I would think that the gasoline base these days (as you mentioned earlier) has pretty much what is needed to keep a car running pretty well. The other additives if they are properly injected at the oil terminal should also have some effect, though perhaps immesurable in many cases.

I have a Ford Escort with 162K miles on it. It had never had the injectors cleaned. I put a 20 ounce bottle of Techron in the tank and after about 5 gallons I could definitely tell the difference, so off the shelf additives can help quite a bit it seems.

Now it could be argued that had I been using Chevron branded gas all these years (the car is a 93 model) then I may not have had the sluggishness caused by the clogged injectors. But on the other hand, the added cost of the branded gas over an eleven year period would certainly be substantial. One ten dollar bottle of Techron seemed to do the trick.

Dan

 

[427Z06]

Dan,

I think we're on the same page. A strong dose of Techron in the tank every 50K miles or so (more or less depending on other variables) probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'm just of the opinion that you don't need this stuff like every tankful or month or every oil change. Once a year, would probably be good enough even for the obsessive compulsive anal types.

 

[carlprop]

Yes, I do remember those days of injector clogging problems over 20 years ago. What happened was in the testing cycle of the test engines did not simulate real world driving conditions where the problems became apparent after shutting down your engine after a long drive and fine deposits were formed clogging the injectors when the engine cooled down.

I believe GM had the most problems. However, it wasn't just GM. And yes, the solution was to turn to the gasoline makers to come up with a detergent additive that cured the problem. Also I believe later on, fuel injectors were designed to be less prone to clogging and maintain a finer spray pattern. However, this was many years ago and if someone else can add to this or correct me, that would be appreciated.

It is interesting to note that fuel tanker man says that additives are not regulated that he knows of. I was under the impression that they were mandatory along with the weights and measures which makes sure you get the amount of gallons of gas that you purchase at the pump.

 

[MNgopher]

Just as one other point, remember that fuel supplies vary in every market. In many cases, fuel is supplied for all brands via one pipeline, as Fuel Tanker Man pointed out. In other areas, there may be very distinct deivery networks.

For example, here in the Twin Cities, there are three brands with distinctly different formulations due to being sourced from different refineries and pipeline networks. BP/Amoco, Holiday, and Superamerica have been shown via testing to have very different formulations. Beyond those three brands, it becomes a crapshoot!

 

[mikep]

wow, great post!

Very interesting stuff and especially interesting to hear that Amoco Premium is refined a bit more and travels alone. I wonder if the same applies to BP premium? Around here, most Amoco stations have been re-badged as BP. Some of them still have the Amoco labeled pumps but with the BP overhead signs and colors.

Thanks again for the post.

 

[T-Keith]

Good post!

Also a good point MN Gopher, Marathon/Ashland and Holiday(maybe BP too) have refineries in our area, so we don't have the situation of all the gas coming down the same pipeline. Thanks to our crazy fuel requirements(ethanol) our gas distribution is quite unique.

It's a good point about addatives though. I'm glad I now add a good addative in almost every tank. (FP)

-T

 

[Ugly3]

Great post! Your info confirms what I have suspected for many years. The only "additive" I use is Techron, I watch the MPG closly and add Techron when I see a decline. The MPG always comes right back.

Thanks for the great info.

 

[fuel tanker man]

Carlprop: "It is interesting to note that fuel tanker man says that additives are not regulated that he knows of. I was under the impression that they were mandatory along with the weights and measures which makes sure you get the amount of gallons of gas that you purchase at the pump."

Carl, I should emphasize that I'm speaking of my own personal experiences here. I don't know of any controlling authority (other than the consumer's decision to shop elsewhere if no effect is noted) which enforces the propreitary additive content. (By proprietary I mean the stuff squirted onto the tanker at the loading rack; not the base gasoline additive package). It's possible that some other oversight group could be going around verifying the amount of "V-power" in Shell gas (for instance) but I've never heard of it being done. I don't think Shell's advertising actually claims an actual amount per gallon, just that "it's in there."

We have the state guys come around every now and then and they check minimum octane, but to my knowledge they don't have a test to identify advertised additives or the concentrations of such. The government just wants to be sure that minimum standards are being kept. I suppose that if one particular brand of gas were reported to the FTC as making false claims about its performance we might see some action. It does appear, however, that these retailers are very careful about what they say an additive will do. Lots of qualifiers like "...it can improve" and "up to a ten percent improvement" and so on.

Like 427 was pointing out earlier, the "good and necessary stuff" is pretty much going to be in the base gasoline product. I just got off the phone with an oil terminal manager I've known for eons (he's been in the business over thirty years) and while he wouldn't tell me the exact amount of additive that went into each 8500 gallon tanker truck load of regular gasoline he did confirm that it was "less than one gallon." He hedged on telling me how much less.

So what you've got there is very low concentration of whatever the additive is. He did say that all of the additives dispersed at his terminal were cleaners which did not have any effect on octane.

All FWIW.

Dan

[ August 26, 2004, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: fuel tanker man ]

 

[carlprop]

Didn't mean to shake you up there, Dan.

I just remember back to the early EFI fuel injector days of years past and people wanted to know what brands of gas had the best detergents and also this generated the huge gasoline additives business of cleaners and such that we see today.

Also I seem to recall that gasoline had to have a certain amount of additves and cleaners for the fuel injection system. And I believe the injectors in today's vehicles are less prone to clogging as they were when first introduced.

By the way, very informative article that you wrote. It dispels a lot of myths and you give factual information not found elsewhere. For example, I didn't realize the mix of 35% premium and 65% regular for the Mid Grade. I thought it was 50/50 mix. No wonder I had problems years ago on a car that knocked unless I used premium. Less than a gallon of cleaner additives for 8500 gallons. Either very concentrated or very weak mixture. I guess that's why Fuel Power works so well as I'm learning on this board.

Also I may add that you shouldn't buy at a station that is just being supplied with gas as the sediments and water that may be present may be stirred up and end up in your gas tank. I'd like your take on this as you say high volume stations change their filters regularly and the sump is a foot from the bottom.

Carl

 

[c502cid]

Easily one of the best and most informative posts I've ever seen on the net. Thank-you!

Question though. Years ago, early to mid 80's, I used to be a pump jockey as a way to stay around cars. I worked at Sinclair, Texaco, Shell, and Chevron. Only at the Chevron stations did the driver add about a liter size bottle of some thick additive before filling the underground tanks. Any insight to this?

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by fuel tanker man:
I just got off the phone with an oil terminal manager I've known for eons (he's been in the business over thirty years) and while he wouldn't tell me the exact amount of additive that went into each 8500 gallon tanker truck load of regular gasoline he did confirm that it was "less than one gallon." He hedged on telling me how much less.

So what you've got there is very low concentration of whatever the additive is. He did say that all of the additives dispersed at his terminal were cleaners which did not have any effect on octane.

Dan

---

One thing we don't know is what concentration that "less than one gallon" stuff is at and what it actually is. Is it the same concentration of the stuff we buy OTC?

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by carlprop:
Less than a gallon of cleaner additives for 8500 gallons. Either very concentrated or very weak mixture. I guess that's why Fuel Power works so well as I'm learning on this board.

---

I'm guessing you didn't even read the referenced article.

 

[fuel tanker man]

"Also I may add that you shouldn't buy at a station that is just being supplied with gas as the sediments and water that may be present may be stirred up and end up in your gas tank."

You're right about that. This would be especially true if the ground tank was very low on product when the tanker was dropping fuel. The water and other trash which normally sits on the bottom of the tank would indeed be stirred up and could end up being picked up by the sump. If the station's filters are in good shape, they should catch the impurities before they get to the dispenser pumps (and they should be re-filtered at the pumps) but some places don't maintain these filters, or use types that will pass water. The baking soda filters are good for absorbing water but not all stations use them. Probably better to play it safe and shop elsewhere if you see a tanker truck delivering fuel...

When I mention that the sumps are 12 inches off the tank floors I'm talking about the terminal (above ground) storage tanks (the white ones). An aside here: Those oil terminal storage tanks are mandated to be white so that they'll reflect the sun's heat as much as possible. If they were darker they would heat more and actually cause the volume of the fuel to expand, which will of course cause gains in the net gallons in the tank. Ground fuel tanks should stay at around 60 degrees in most retail locations through most liveable temps. This fluctuates a bit, of course. So if you were to purchase fuel in a hot climate you will actually get a little bit less fuel (net gallons) than you'd get if your fuel had come from a cold tank.

The sumps in the retail stations can be from 2 inches to 8 inches or so off the tank bottoms. Obviously the farther the better, but some places have them set low to get that last 300 gallons or so.

c502cid,

We used to pour a gallon of additive in the diesel fuel that we sell. In truth, it was mostly a marketing ploy. The stuff used to die the fuel RED and truckers called it "Kool-Aid." Our company paid between 17 and 20 bucks a gallon for that stuff, so it wasn't cheap. When the laws changed regarding off-road low sulfur diesel the government began requiring the non-taxable fuel to be died red, and my company then changed the formula to a non-coloring additive. We would pour that into the ground tanks prior to dropping 7500 to 7800 gallons of fuel in there. It soon became apparent that our diesel really wasn't performing any better than our competitor's fuels were (customer feedback) and we eventually phased out the additive altogether.

Sometimes the additives that are poured into fuel storage tanks are algae-cides designed to kill algae. But what you saw the Chevron drivers pouring in there was probably a fuel system cleaner of some type.

427 is right to wonder about the actual concentration of the additive being injected at the oil terminals. It probably is a more concentrated version than can be bought over the counter. I don't know for sure, though.

Maybe I can take a few notes off one of the MSDS sheets from one of the additive tanks next time I haul fuel. I'm not driving a lot these days, just dispatching. But I do get in a truck a couple times a week when we get busy, which we're starting to do.

Dan

 

[mechtech]

Fuel T M - Best post ever. Thanks.