Quaker State
- Thread starter smurf
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I do remember a few old men saying QS ans even Pennzoil would turn into sludge. Maybe back then there were issues, though, I am inclined to think that poor maintenance played a large part if any was true.
Today, QS oils are very good from the conventional to QS Ultimate Durability (what I and many other on BITOG regard as one of the best "syn" oils for the money) Quaker State HAS changed that much. It is owned by SOPUS and they really have no bad motor oils in the US.
Today, QS oils are very good from the conventional to QS Ultimate Durability (what I and many other on BITOG regard as one of the best "syn" oils for the money) Quaker State HAS changed that much. It is owned by SOPUS and they really have no bad motor oils in the US.
I have run several different brands in my truck - Valvoline, Maxlife, Pennzoil, Napa/Carquest house brands (which are said to a weaker version of Valvoline anyway) and my truck absolutely runs best on QS conventional. It runs smoother and quieter and does not burn a drop. I used to have to add maybe half a quart at about 2,000 miles into the OCI when I used Valvoline and the Napa/CQ oil.
I have switched from PP to QSUD for my acura, I figure if both PP and QSUD 5W30 has HTO-06 certification, then should be equally good for my car. Well, not that my car requires HTO-06, it's just if it's good enough for the turbo, it must be good enough for my NA mentality.
I'm going back to school, so i need to save as much as possible.
I'm going back to school, so i need to save as much as possible.
I've heard the stories, but they're decades out of date.
I wasn't there, but personally I suspect it wasn't just Quaker State and Pennzoil that were prone to sludge. But since those brands were (I'm assuming) the cheapest and most common, people would be likely to blame them.
In the case of sludgebuckets, it can be assumed that owners who were too cheap to change oil regularly were also more likely to have been using the cheapest brands of oil. That could create an illusion of cause and effect that was misplaced - the real issue would be failing to change the oil, not necessarily what brand it had in it.
Personally I wouldn't trust any oil from the 70s much more or less than Quaker State. They may have all sucked.
I suspect the biggest issue with oil back then was the generally lower quality of all oil in the 1960s-70s, combined with the inherently aggressive multiweight formulations required to achieve the 10w40 grade (which many people were using back then).
If some masochist were to do wear testing on many brands of 1970s (or older) 10w40, I'm skeptical that any of them would hold up much better over a long usage interval than QS did.
Suffice to say, I blame the technology of the time, not the brand.
I wasn't there, but personally I suspect it wasn't just Quaker State and Pennzoil that were prone to sludge. But since those brands were (I'm assuming) the cheapest and most common, people would be likely to blame them.
In the case of sludgebuckets, it can be assumed that owners who were too cheap to change oil regularly were also more likely to have been using the cheapest brands of oil. That could create an illusion of cause and effect that was misplaced - the real issue would be failing to change the oil, not necessarily what brand it had in it.
Personally I wouldn't trust any oil from the 70s much more or less than Quaker State. They may have all sucked.
I suspect the biggest issue with oil back then was the generally lower quality of all oil in the 1960s-70s, combined with the inherently aggressive multiweight formulations required to achieve the 10w40 grade (which many people were using back then).
If some masochist were to do wear testing on many brands of 1970s (or older) 10w40, I'm skeptical that any of them would hold up much better over a long usage interval than QS did.
Suffice to say, I blame the technology of the time, not the brand.
Quaker State conventional is all I ever used in my 95,000 km Ford Edge. It has given me zero problems and my engine runs smooth on it. I think it is good stuff.
The reason that people blamed QS and PYB was because the motor oils were made in PA, from PA crude.
Lots of hocus pocus and nonsense.....today these same two oils are made by SOPUS. I doubt you'll find PA crude oil in TX.
Lots of hocus pocus and nonsense.....today these same two oils are made by SOPUS. I doubt you'll find PA crude oil in TX.
i got a good deal on qsgb about 2 years ago but now its up there in price and i dont bother with it
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
i got a good deal on qsgb about 2 years ago but now its up there in price and i dont bother with it
It's 14 bucks at wallys for a 5 quart jug.
i got a good deal on qsgb about 2 years ago but now its up there in price and i dont bother with it
It's 14 bucks at wallys for a 5 quart jug.
In the late 80s I used QS, and changed my oil every 2500 miles. I got a huge waxy buildup under the valve covers after just a few oil changes. Pennzoil did the same, so the stories are true for these two oils.
Castrol was good back then, and after I started using it, , the sludge/wax disappeared after a few changes.
Castrol was good back then, and after I started using it, , the sludge/wax disappeared after a few changes.
Originally Posted By: smurf
When I was a teenager in the mid seventys Quaker State oil had a bad reputation of gunking up a engine,but from what I see one the boards today alot of people really like it. Have they changed that much?
The reputation QS had in the 60s and 70s was well-deserved and I saw first-hand why as I worked at a service station and an auto repair shop throughout high school. The problem wasn't the quality of QS oil, it was their labeling and marketing. By far, the straight grades of QS were the big sellers (SAE 30 and SAE 20w20). In fact, the service station (a Chevron station, BTW) I worked at kept the oil rack by the pumps full of the straight grades. The owner kept a few cans of QS SuperBlend (10w30) in the back but I never saw a can of QS Deluxe (10w40). When it came to the straight grades of Quaker State, here was the problem. The "high detergent" and non-detergent oils were sold in IDENTICAL cans. The only difference was the color of the circle on the top of the can. "Red Top" Quaker State was the "high detergent" oil; "Green Top" was the non-detergent. As to be expected, the "Green Top" was a few cents cheaper per quart. QS was the best selling oil we carried, and I used to add a lot of oil to customers' cars when I'd fill their tanks. Thus, I got to see the condition of the inside of a lot of engines by looking into the fill holes on the valve covers. Whenever a customer didn't specify an oil, I had standing orders to top off the engine with the most expensive Chevron oil. But most customers did specify an oil, and it was usually Quaker State. The ones that specified "Red Top" generally had clean engines on the inside. The customers that specified "Green Top" ALWAYS had a sludged up mess. The worst was the local game warden. He drove a 71 Galaxie that had the police package, and a bigblock 429. He always wanted it topped off with "Green Top" QS and I literally had to wipe the sludge off the bottom of the oil cap (which held the PCV valve if I remember correctly) when I added oil.
I remain convinced to this day that if Quaker State had done a better job of differentiating the labeling between their detergent and non-detergent grades, a lot more cars would have been a lot less sludged up. As it was, people tended to see the two oils as essentially the same, with the "Green Top" just being a little cheaper. There was no confusion when it came to differentiating QS's multigrades, and these oils were a lot more expensive than the straight grades. A good friend of ours had a 68 Galaxie with a 390 in it and he'd used Quaker State SuperBlend in it from day one. Five years later with nearly 100,000 miles on it, the engine was spotless on the inside.
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When I was a teenager in the mid seventys Quaker State oil had a bad reputation of gunking up a engine,but from what I see one the boards today alot of people really like it. Have they changed that much?
The reputation QS had in the 60s and 70s was well-deserved and I saw first-hand why as I worked at a service station and an auto repair shop throughout high school. The problem wasn't the quality of QS oil, it was their labeling and marketing. By far, the straight grades of QS were the big sellers (SAE 30 and SAE 20w20). In fact, the service station (a Chevron station, BTW) I worked at kept the oil rack by the pumps full of the straight grades. The owner kept a few cans of QS SuperBlend (10w30) in the back but I never saw a can of QS Deluxe (10w40). When it came to the straight grades of Quaker State, here was the problem. The "high detergent" and non-detergent oils were sold in IDENTICAL cans. The only difference was the color of the circle on the top of the can. "Red Top" Quaker State was the "high detergent" oil; "Green Top" was the non-detergent. As to be expected, the "Green Top" was a few cents cheaper per quart. QS was the best selling oil we carried, and I used to add a lot of oil to customers' cars when I'd fill their tanks. Thus, I got to see the condition of the inside of a lot of engines by looking into the fill holes on the valve covers. Whenever a customer didn't specify an oil, I had standing orders to top off the engine with the most expensive Chevron oil. But most customers did specify an oil, and it was usually Quaker State. The ones that specified "Red Top" generally had clean engines on the inside. The customers that specified "Green Top" ALWAYS had a sludged up mess. The worst was the local game warden. He drove a 71 Galaxie that had the police package, and a bigblock 429. He always wanted it topped off with "Green Top" QS and I literally had to wipe the sludge off the bottom of the oil cap (which held the PCV valve if I remember correctly) when I added oil.
I remain convinced to this day that if Quaker State had done a better job of differentiating the labeling between their detergent and non-detergent grades, a lot more cars would have been a lot less sludged up. As it was, people tended to see the two oils as essentially the same, with the "Green Top" just being a little cheaper. There was no confusion when it came to differentiating QS's multigrades, and these oils were a lot more expensive than the straight grades. A good friend of ours had a 68 Galaxie with a 390 in it and he'd used Quaker State SuperBlend in it from day one. Five years later with nearly 100,000 miles on it, the engine was spotless on the inside.
Ditto G-MAN. You're absolutely right about the red/green tops. The only two things I would change in your story would be that I worked in a Citgo (Jenny) station in the 60's, and we never put green top in a vehicle. For us it was either red top or Super Blend (which came out of the can deep green). Never saw sludge with either red top or SB.
P.S. We had one school teacher who brought his own change and top-off oil. He never ran anything but Havoline straight 10 weight year round in his 283's. Said it got into the cracks and crevices better. OK. He never had an oil issue.
P.S. We had one school teacher who brought his own change and top-off oil. He never ran anything but Havoline straight 10 weight year round in his 283's. Said it got into the cracks and crevices better. OK. He never had an oil issue.
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
The reputation QS had in the 60s and 70s was well-deserved
After this fiasco, Quaker State came out with the guarantee that would warranty the engine for life, provided that you verified your oil changes. I remember that all oil related engine failures would be covered. This would have been in the early '80s. That warranty was put into place just to stop the bad press it was getting.
The reputation QS had in the 60s and 70s was well-deserved
After this fiasco, Quaker State came out with the guarantee that would warranty the engine for life, provided that you verified your oil changes. I remember that all oil related engine failures would be covered. This would have been in the early '80s. That warranty was put into place just to stop the bad press it was getting.
I used Quaker State oils in my cars through the 60's and 70's and didn't have problems with sludge. Also in those days, people removed the thermostat or installed a low temperature thermostat thinking the engine ran better if it was cool. We know now that theory is completely wrong as it will be a major contributor to sludge. All oils used in those days would sludge if it wasn't changed regularly including Havoline which many people swore by.
Originally Posted By: armos
I wasn't there, but personally I suspect it wasn't just Quaker State and Pennzoil that were prone to sludge. But since those brands were (I'm assuming) the cheapest and most common, people would be likely to blame them.
Agreed. Up here, at least, Castrol GTX got a lot of grief, too. Well, what did people use for conventional back then? Quaker State, Pennzoil, and Castrol. What a surprise that they got blamed. The quality of the common 10w-40 used at the time certainly didn't help matters. We used 10w-30 QS in the taxi fleet through all those "sludge years" and beyond, with no problems. However, we stuck to a "better" grade, and there was no fuel dilution and no cold starts.
46Harry's point about running too cold of a thermostat is well taken, too.
I wasn't there, but personally I suspect it wasn't just Quaker State and Pennzoil that were prone to sludge. But since those brands were (I'm assuming) the cheapest and most common, people would be likely to blame them.
Agreed. Up here, at least, Castrol GTX got a lot of grief, too. Well, what did people use for conventional back then? Quaker State, Pennzoil, and Castrol. What a surprise that they got blamed. The quality of the common 10w-40 used at the time certainly didn't help matters. We used 10w-30 QS in the taxi fleet through all those "sludge years" and beyond, with no problems. However, we stuck to a "better" grade, and there was no fuel dilution and no cold starts.
46Harry's point about running too cold of a thermostat is well taken, too.
Just finishing up a 10,000Km OCI in my Nitro using QSUD. Ran like a champ.
I just picked up 5L of PP for my next OC.
I'll use either PP or QSUD, depending on when it goes on sale close to my next OC.
Both are top notch.
I just picked up 5L of PP for my next OC.
I'll use either PP or QSUD, depending on when it goes on sale close to my next OC.
Both are top notch.
Great post G-man thanks for sharing!
Originally Posted By: Kuato
In the late 80s I used QS, and changed my oil every 2500 miles. I got a huge waxy buildup under the valve covers after just a few oil changes. Pennzoil did the same, so the stories are true for these two oils.
Castrol was good back then, and after I started using it, , the sludge/wax disappeared after a few changes.
Aw you were hallucinating.
In the late 80s I used QS, and changed my oil every 2500 miles. I got a huge waxy buildup under the valve covers after just a few oil changes. Pennzoil did the same, so the stories are true for these two oils.
Castrol was good back then, and after I started using it, , the sludge/wax disappeared after a few changes.
Aw you were hallucinating.
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