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#2757963 - 09/29/12 10:19 AM Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine?
Boatowner Offline


Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 247
Loc: Kingman, Arizona
This was posted as what happens when you run full synthetic in certain bikes:

http://www.vulcanforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30265

I am not buying it. I can see no way a synthetic could fail to lubricate at least as well as any other oil no matter how the bike was ridden. What do others think? I think the mechanic may know lots about motorcycle engines, but very little about lubricants.
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#2757981 - 09/29/12 10:45 AM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
Bottom_Feeder Offline


Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 1453
Loc: Occupied Virginia
I'm not buying that that conversation ever took place.

There is nothing that the correct dino for an application does better than a correct synthetic. If this story actually happened, then that's more of a problem of the wrong type of syn rather than just the fact that it's syn. Dumb.

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#2757984 - 09/29/12 10:47 AM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
JamesBond Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 365
Loc: midwest
Mechanic who sells engine overhaul services-"Don't use synthetic oil"

Company that sells new cars-"Change your oil every 10,000 mi. and your transmission fluid, never"

Company that sells motor oil-"Use synthetic oil and change it every 3,000 miles"

I would think that these people are looking out for THEIR bottom lines more than yours.

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#2757994 - 09/29/12 10:51 AM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14643
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
I think the mechanic may know lots about motorcycle engines, but very little about lubricants.


True. And the same applies to many mechanical engineers who have not majored in chemisry and/or triboloby.

Quote:
The bearings that revolve around the crank..(babbit)?....can't tolerate synthetic oil. It seems the bike doesn't have the rpms necessary to circulate the synthetic oil around the crank...so, you end up with literally metal on metal..hence the ruined engine....Now, before ya'll pick me to pieces, I'm no mechanic...understood half of what he was saying..but, the engine on the bench was proof. He told me and I quote "synthetic in crotch rockets is fantastic!, but, in low revving bikes....dino only" I guess that's why my buddy uses Harley conventional in his now 50,000 dollar Rocker "C".


I am afraid there is a lot of misunderstanding of basic mechanics and synthetic oil formulatons.


Edited by MolaKule (09/29/12 10:57 AM)
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#2758031 - 09/29/12 11:42 AM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
carwreck Offline


Registered: 04/04/09
Posts: 464
Loc: CT
If you had read the entire thread from your link, you will see that the original poster "silenthill" replies "IT'S A STORY, I clearly said "FOOD FOR THOUGHT". (A "story", as in once upon a time...)

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#2758176 - 09/29/12 03:22 PM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25921
Loc: Michigan
There is so much misinformation and Amsoil peddling on Vulcan Forums that I don't even know where to begin to try to re-educate that crowd. They've been brainwashed for the most part, and if you try to question the marketing [censored] spread by their resident Amsoil sponsor, you will just get yourself banned.

Please do yourself a favor and avoid Vulcan Forums for any sort of oil related subjects. Their model specific forums are good though.
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#2758264 - 09/29/12 05:13 PM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
BigCahuna Offline


Registered: 09/29/09
Posts: 1261
Loc: Deep in the heart of Jersey
I've never heard of a true story about a vehicle using the correct weight oil, be it regular or synthetic that caused the amount of damage, like the guy in the "story" posted. Maybe if you were running 0-20 wt, in a motor that you turned into a drag strip only bike where you hit the red line continually, might be able to cause that amount of damage. I gotta throw the [censored] flag on that one.,,

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#2758971 - 09/30/12 05:12 PM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
Mitch Alsup Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 639
Loc: Austin Texas
The story has more to do with putting an oil in the motor that was way too viscous and then reving the motor too hard before the oil was warm.

I don't see how the oil was to blame:
A) the oil was too thick,
B) the owner improperly used the motor with improper viscosity oil

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#2759577 - 10/01/12 09:53 AM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: MolaKule]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 3009
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
I think the mechanic may know lots about motorcycle engines, but very little about lubricants.


True. And the same applies to many mechanical engineers who have not majored in chemisry and/or triboloby.

Quote:
The bearings that revolve around the crank..(babbit)?....can't tolerate synthetic oil. It seems the bike doesn't have the rpms necessary to circulate the synthetic oil around the crank...so, you end up with literally metal on metal..hence the ruined engine....Now, before ya'll pick me to pieces, I'm no mechanic...understood half of what he was saying..but, the engine on the bench was proof. He told me and I quote "synthetic in crotch rockets is fantastic!, but, in low revving bikes....dino only" I guess that's why my buddy uses Harley conventional in his now 50,000 dollar Rocker "C".


I am afraid there is a lot of misunderstanding of basic mechanics and synthetic oil formulatons.

I wonder of a Group III would be OK in this application. I use it in my "slow turning" BMW airhead. smile


Edited by HerrStig (10/01/12 09:53 AM)

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#2759661 - 10/01/12 11:33 AM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
Robenstein Offline


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 3241
Loc: Central IA
Group III is only considered "synthetic" in the USA. I wonder if it only blows up engines made in/operated the USA, since in Europe its considered just severely hydrocracked dino. LOL


Edited by Robenstein (10/01/12 11:34 AM)
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#2761357 - 10/02/12 10:33 PM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Robenstein]
burnrider Offline


Registered: 02/10/12
Posts: 19
Loc: OR
I'm sure the mechanic has a closet full of edison bulbs so he can avoid the chinese curly lights.

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#2765632 - 10/07/12 12:40 PM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
Hirev Offline


Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 1198
Loc: Oregon
Perhaps someone should ask FZ1GRL what oil she uses in her Yamaha 1st Gen FZ1. She hit 200,000 miles on her Yamaha this year! LINKEY HERE
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#2765844 - 10/07/12 05:14 PM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
Mike Simmons Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 55
Loc: Union, MO
I think the "story" is pure [censored] on someone's part. I'm from Missouri.... your gonna have to show-me.

Mike

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#2767440 - 10/09/12 10:21 AM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
Boatowner Offline


Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 247
Loc: Kingman, Arizona
I am now told Harley bearings are of a design that the slipperiness of synthetic oil causes them to not spin and develop a flat spot. Other motorcycle bearings are of a different design and don't have this problem. That is what I am told. I have no idea. Does this make sense to anyone?
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05 Jetta TDI Wagen, 12 Pilot, 10 Vulcan 900 Classic LT, 07 Searay 185 Sport

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#2767459 - 10/09/12 10:49 AM Re: Synthetic ruin Yamaha engine? [Re: Boatowner]
757guy Offline


Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 202
Loc: MN
I've been told you cannot use synthetic because of the wet clutch using the same oil.

Here's some text from the following website:

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

"There are a few special problem areas for motorcycle oil. Most motorcycles have wet clutches, which means the motor oil runs through the clutch. If the motor oil has too much molybdenum in it, there are fears that the clutch can start slipping. No one I know has ever actually had this happen to them, but the warnings are all over your owners' manual and the oil companies' web pages. On the back of all certified oil cans is a circular stamp with the certification. Avoid oils that say "energy conserving" in the bottom half of the donut. These oils contain friction modifier additives that could cause clutch slipping over time. Essentially all 0w-20, 5w-30 and 10w-30 oils are energy conserving, and should not be used in your motorcycle.

Most motorcycles run the engine oil through the transmission, and the transmission gears are very hard on the oil's VII package. This means that over a couple thousand miles, the oil's viscosity can break down. Standard car oils are only good for typically 1500 miles before they've lost about half of their viscosity. Remember, 10w-40 oils contain a lot of VIIs which tend to shear in your transmission, so I believe 10w-40 oils should be avoided. You can't use 10w-30 because of the friction modifiers. This doesn't leave much. Commercial 15w-40 oils are a good choice, because they have relatively few VIIs which are the more expensive shear-stable sort. Synthetics typically don't contain much of a VII package, so shear is not as big an issue with them."

My dealer has told me several times that I should not use synthetic oil in my Yamaha V-Star because of the wet clutch system. I figure it's no big deal as I only ride about a 1,500 miles per year, and always change the oil at the end of the season.

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