New 04' SAAB 9-3 ARC w/2.0T - All year round oil?

[Mr_Accord]

Well I just picked up an 04' SAAB 9-3 with only 149K KMs. The previous owner took very good care of it and ran it with Castrol Syntec 5w-30. The car is in need of an oil change and after curiously looking through many web posts for oil requirements on this car I'm now quite confused. In the owners manual it states that it needs a synthetic oil that meets the GM-LL-A-25 (now Dexros1) specs in the viscosity range of 0w-30, 5w-30, or 0w-40. (apparently 5w-40 was added later)

Every SAAB forum I visit a lot of owners are using Mobil1 0w-40. I know 0w-40 is good for cold temperatures , but how does it work in the hot summer months? I live in Eastern Canada where the summer months are hot and humid (high 30's to low 40's C) to really cold (below -10C). I want to know if Mobil1 0w-40 is the my best option for this type of turbo engine and the climate I'm living in? Another option that I was looking at was Motul X-Cess 5w-40 (GM-LL-A-25 Cert). There is a performance shop near me that is liquidating their stock of Motul motor oils, and at the price they're selling it at its about the same as buying Mobil1, Castrol, or Pennzoil Platinum. I'm also not one to do long OCI's. I change my oil about every 7000 to 10000KMS.

My options so far:

Mobil1 0w-40 or 5w-30
Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30
Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w-40
AMSOIL 5w-40 or 5w-30
Motul X-Cess 5w-40 or X-CLean / X-Cess 5w-30

What do you think guys?

Thanks.

 

[Bandito440]

The M1 0w-40 is a fine choice and will protect well in all seasons. Rotella T6 and PU Euro 5w-40 would round out my top three.

 

[DB_Cooper]

On my Daughter's Saab we use PP/PU 5w30 or Rotella 5w40. I would strongly suggest you inspect under the valve covers prior to an oil service. Saab engines were very prone to sludge. Many a good car lost an engine because the oil pick up screen was plugged with sludge, even with regular oil changes.

Don't know why Saab engines did that..using a good detergent oil like PP/PU or a HDEO will help.

If you find sludge under the valve covers..be ready to remove the oil pan and do some heavy cleaning.

 

[Mr_Accord]

Thanks guys. The engine in my car apparently wasn't one of the sludgers that SAAB was using in their cars. The previous generation (99-2002) 9-3's had engines that would sludge up quite easily and the 2.3L in the 9-5 also. Right now though I'm in between the Motul X-Cess 5w-40 or X-Cess 5w-30 and the PP 5w-30.

 

[JHZR2]

I have an 04 2.0t. It is a great car, I get really high MPGs from it.

I have run SSO 5w-30 though it doesnt meet the GM or A3 requirements.

The OM says that if the GM-LL spec cant be met, use ACEA A3.

But to ad to confusion, Dexos 1 is supposedl the replacement for the GM-LL spec.

Personally Id run M1 0w-40 which is a stout oil that meets the specs.

The engine wore hardly at all under SSO on a 1+ yr OCI, but generally Id rather stick to the specs...

What do those Motul oils meet spec wise?

 

[Mr_Accord]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I have an 04 2.0t. It is a great car, I get really high MPGs from it.

I have run SSO 5w-30 though it doesnt meet the GM or A3 requirements.

The OM says that if the GM-LL spec cant be met, use ACEA A3.

But to ad to confusion, Dexos 1 is supposedl the replacement for the GM-LL spec.

Personally Id run M1 0w-40 which is a stout oil that meets the specs.

The engine wore hardly at all under SSO on a 1+ yr OCI, but generally Id rather stick to the specs...

What do those Motul oils meet spec wise?


the 5w-40 actually meets the GM-LL-A-25 specs, and the X-Clean 5w-30 meets the ACEA A3 / B4 / C3

 

[JHZR2]

I believe that based upon the UOA, that my '04 2.0t came with a 30wt oil from the factory.

Id use either, but probably lean towards the 5w-30.

 

[Pablo]

I actually recommend Amsoil HDD 5W-30 for that engine.

 

[zoli]

Your weather condition similar like my one.
M1 5W50 works great in my SAAB.

 

[skyship]

As your engine has a fairly high mileage I would use an 0/40 and there is not much difference between the different ones available. Mobil 1 is good but my choice would be Liqui Moly 0/40 Synthoil, which is what most of the Saab folks in Germany use.
Don't use a 50 weight as it flows around the block and turbo more slowly when hot which reduces the cooling effect of the oil. A fully synthetic 5/40 is also OK.
Unless you get stuck in traffic a lot or your engine is a bit smokey, 10K km OCI should be fine.

 

[bigjl]

Biggest peoblem was the routing of the exhaust and I presume also to an extent the positioning of the turbo.

The oil basically gets fairly well "cooked" when in the sump.

Long drain intervals and semi synthetic oil were the final nail in the coffin with these engines.

I had a 95 lpt a few years back for a couple of months. Lovely comfortable car.

I believe mine had Mobil 1 in it. Never did have it long enough to.need an OC.

I would run Mobil 1 or other similar Full Synthetic with a 5/6k mile interval or 6 months.

Personally i would run the same all year. I don't see the point in running different oils in summmer and winter. Seems overkill, especially if running a 0w40 Full Synth like Mobil 1.

As mentioned get the sump.off and clean the pick up. And if there is any noise from.camchain when started from cold sell it and buy another or budget for a new camchain and all the guides.

 

[JHZR2]

But this is an ecotec high pressure turbo model, completely different from the older sludgemonsters.

 

[bigjl]

The only reason why the later models are not considered sludge monsters in the same way as earlier models is not a change in engine or turbo. But rather the lesson learned from speccing too long OCI and low oil specifications for everyday usage.

They used to spec semi synth at main dealers then moved over to full synth with shorter intervals.

This was something the independent Saab specialists in the UK discovered and started to do long before Saab admitted any problems.

As I said already the engine suffers from the positioning of the turbo and associated exhaust routing.

The oil gets overheated and turned to sludge in the sump.

If they could have changed the positioning of these components the previous OCI and semi synth would in all likelihood have been sufficient.

 

[JHZR2]

huh? Im pretty sure the 2.0L ecotec was a new design that was for the 9-3SS.

 

[bigjl]

Never had a 93 but this is not an engine problem.

It was an issue with packaging the exhaust too near the sump.

As it was still regarded as an issue with all the petrol turbos according to people still active in the Saab owners club in UK when I owned my 95 back in 2005/6.

Ecotec moniker is just copying the name that Vauxhall used for petrol engines over the last decade or so.

To be honest feel free to put any dino/mineral you want.

I am only putting information that I thought would be helpful.

Believe it or not there are a lot of Saab owners in Europe aswell.

the petrol turbo sales dropped off dramatically in recent years. Most 93's had the 1.9 cdti engine from Fiat the 95 was quite often that engine or a 2.2 borrowed from Vauxhall.

If these ecotec engines had a camchain then they will in all likelyhood be the same lump as in the 95.

But with the shortened OCI and full synth only Saabs were as reliable as ever, at least the petrol ones were. Diesel were not so good.

1.9 was prone to egr failures, dpf issues and the 2.2 sounded like a bus. Was probably more reliable though.

 

[DB_Cooper]

Big is correct.It was an issue with packaging the exhaust too near the sump.

Cutting the oil filter open on my daughter's 95 900s with a 2.3 naturally aspirated engine always shows small black carbon particulates inside the pleats.

Using PP or PU makes no real change..the oil is cooking in the engine. Frequent oil changes are a must in a Saab with the catalytic converter routed close under the oil pan.

When you turn the engine off the very hot (1000*F or more) CatCon literally cooks the oil in the sump while it cools down.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Never had a 93 but this is not an engine problem.

It was an issue with packaging the exhaust too near the sump.

As it was still regarded as an issue with all the petrol turbos according to people still active in the Saab owners club in UK when I owned my 95 back in 2005/6.

Ecotec moniker is just copying the name that Vauxhall used for petrol engines over the last decade or so.

To be honest feel free to put any dino/mineral you want.

I am only putting information that I thought would be helpful.

Believe it or not there are a lot of Saab owners in Europe aswell.

the petrol turbo sales dropped off dramatically in recent years. Most 93's had the 1.9 cdti engine from Fiat the 95 was quite often that engine or a 2.2 borrowed from Vauxhall.

If these ecotec engines had a camchain then they will in all likelyhood be the same lump as in the 95.

But with the shortened OCI and full synth only Saabs were as reliable as ever, at least the petrol ones were. Diesel were not so good.

1.9 was prone to egr failures, dpf issues and the 2.2 sounded like a bus. Was probably more reliable though.


Diesels not so good?
Diesels that are not good are 2.2dti from Opel/Vauxhall. 1.9cdti from Fiat are amazing engines.
I had Lancia 2.4jtd (5cyl version) and I called it "killer" on the road. It was so fast for 150hp it is amazing.
However, it required Sellenia 10W40 or 5W40 oil which is VERY expensive. But in EU, it is not problem to find good synthetic oil. In the U.S., on other hand, oils are really [censored], except few (GC, PU Ultra, M1 0W40 or European imports).

 

[bigjl]

Prior to retirement last year I worked for a large NHS Ambulance service.

The Rapid Response Units that they introduced in 2005/6 were Vauxhall Zafiras.

They were fitted with the 1.9 cdti Fiat engine and were always going wrong.

Limp mode, dpf problems, egr problems. Fuel contamination due to incomplete regeneration of the dpf.

Engines going bang in massive amount.

Even if you remove the dpf you still have the problems associated with the egr system that was troublesome.

My NHS Trust bought over 350 of these things between 2005 and 2007.

I didn't know of many that hadn't had a new engine. The earliest failure was with a mate driving and it had 3000 miles on the clock!

If running right the engine was smooth if a little underpowered in the 120bhp auto spec we had.

Another big problem was fuel.consumption. I drive these things for years and even when driven sedately would struggle to break 20mpg!

2.4 jtd is probably a better engine. And perhaps they were better with Fiat electronics. But I would only buy one if cheap.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Prior to retirement last year I worked for a large NHS Ambulance service.

The Rapid Response Units that they introduced in 2005/6 were Vauxhall Zafiras.

They were fitted with the 1.9 cdti Fiat engine and were always going wrong.

Limp mode, dpf problems, egr problems. Fuel contamination due to incomplete regeneration of the dpf.

Engines going bang in massive amount.

Even if you remove the dpf you still have the problems associated with the egr system that was troublesome.

My NHS Trust bought over 350 of these things between 2005 and 2007.

I didn't know of many that hadn't had a new engine. The earliest failure was with a mate driving and it had 3000 miles on the clock!

If running right the engine was smooth if a little underpowered in the 120bhp auto spec we had.

Another big problem was fuel.consumption. I drive these things for years and even when driven sedately would struggle to break 20mpg!

2.4 jtd is probably a better engine. And perhaps they were better with Fiat electronics. But I would only buy one if cheap.


That is first time I hear about such big problems. Let me think: oh, yes! cars were driven by people WHO DID NOT CARE ABOUT THEM!
I will destroy that engine, and any other engine in matter of 1,000 miles, just give me money for that

 

[bigjl]

Well considering it is a well known issue with this engine in the UK and Europe where most new cars are indeed DIESEL.

And who says they were driven by people who didn't care about them?

They were serviced every 3000 miles on average, sometimes sooner, certainly every 6/8 weeks. Not just due to the oil but brakes were stripped out and re copper greased a every service.

Initially there was an issue with oil specs not being sufficient but they continued to be unreliable and it is partly the work done by the fitters in partnership with Vauxhall and latey Saab main dealers with help from Vauxhall UK that a lot of the issues wih this engine and specifically the problems caused by the EGR system were recognised.

All these vehicles were driven by Class 2 advanced drivers and though sometimes driven in Emergency Situations they are automatic so in fact excess revs are not really an issue, are they?

Just to confirm?

How many of these particular engines have you dealt with?

And I assume you are some form of advanced driver aswell?

Lets not forget that these vehicles are in use 24/7 and rarely have any cold starts.

They do get switched off after a hard run though, but the only widespread turbo failures were on the few mk1 2.0 diesels which had a Vauxhall engine fitted, incidentally apart from the turbos the 50 odd old shapes had NO engine failures to date, just turbos, and these were used in the exact same conditions.

The previous generation response car were petrol Vauxhall Astras with a 1.8 scorecard lump with an auto box, there was never any failures on these as far as engines go, a couple of autoboxes broke at 5/6 yrs in service, but other than the odd sensor they were very reliable.

Wih same usage over many, many years why exactly do you assume this was operator error rather than an engine just not up to the job.

Try googling a few UK based Vauxhall forums to see the conversations relating to. Issues with the 1.9 Fiat engine.

Now I didn't say it wasn't smooth etc when running, as they are a nice smooth engine, but reliable, no they are certainly not.