Fram Extra Guard PH3980 Cut Open - 5k and Coolant

[KCJeep]

We've seen plenty of OCOD's cut open I know, I was curious on this one as I ran it a full 5k on my wife's van and the UOA for that same run indicated coolant contamination. So I wondered how it had held up. Sorry, done with a hacksaw, no cutter yet. Motor oil was STP 5w30, the PH3980 is a PF-52 equivalent, an oversize on my wife's 3.4 Chevy Venture van. Engine has 137k and looks clean through the fill hole.


I was surprised how good it looked once I got it open.




The media was in great shape, I was expecting some deformation with the coolant.



Here's the seam side with typical Fram larger plear spacing in that area. All appeared intact and even the large gap seams showed no deformation. The fiber end caps were both straight and rigid.



This one had the newer base plate style. Not impressive to look at but I admit it gave me no trouble. In fact during installation it seemed to bottom out, preventing the filter from being overtightened. The ADBV was seated on the fiber endcap so firmly some of it ripped off when I removed it, if you look closely you can see a little of it still. You can also see a ring around the top of the center tube where it seated in the previous pic above. The ADBV was still soft and pliable, but was thinner than I expected, almost flimsy. No issues with the mounting gasket on the face plate.



A view inside the can revealed dirty oil and grit, the filter was doing it's job.



All in all I was presently surprised with how well the filter held up. Since this filter was nearly free as part of an oil change special I certainly got my money's worth. I used the dreaded "OCOD" for years before I "knew better" and never had a problem. Based on my first hand examination here I certainly won't lose any sleep at night using one in this application again...as long as the price is right!

 

[HerrStig]

How did that grit get in there?

 

[Colt45ws]

Oil sludging up from the coolant contamination.

 

[driver123]

The chevy 3.4 liter and 3.1 suffer from intake and head gasket troubles, mainly due to the dexcool debacle, these engines require intense maintenance of the cooling system. It's wise to flush the cooling system once a year

 

[MinamiKotaro]

Not bad, actually pretty impressive. That being said, I won't be using an orange can again anytime soon. I used them for a long time until I got a couple of Purolators and noticed that startup rattle and some problems with low oil pressure at startup went away. Before then, I'd just assumed such things were normal.

The Extra Guards need to be a bottom-basement price point filter, but they cost more than a Purolator Classic or a Motorcraft, both of which outperform the orange-can in every test I've seen.

 

[CourierDriver]

I still do not get this Fram bashing thing. Many in here have used Fram, and every other filter on the market over 30 years of driving and like I have said before, a filter never killed my engines. But our opinions have never put Fram out of business.

 

[OilNerd]

Thanks for posting this.

The coolant contamination scenario is one of my nightmares of my Buick. It's nice to know that the fiber-based endcaps can hold up well under that operating condition.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: driver123
The chevy 3.4 liter and 3.1 suffer from intake and head gasket troubles, mainly due to the dexcool debacle, these engines require intense maintenance of the cooling system. It's wise to flush the cooling system once a year



As someone who used to own a 3.1 Buick I would say the problem is mainly due to poor design and not enough bolts rather than the 'dexcool debacle'...When a properly designed gasket (such as the metal rimmed FelPro Problem Solver) is used along with new bolts which have Permatex installed the problem is usually fixed for at least 150K...GM should have used more bolts in their design, IMO....

 

[KevGuy]

All; the orange can is your friend! Proof is here.

 

[driver123]

.......but the fact that the original factory fill dexcool ate away the gasket mareial cannot be denied, this much is proven. It may very well be bad design, but the dexcool mistake is well documented. These cars would have done well to have had a traditional glycol green fill, instead of the problematic dexcool. I have owned and driven a 2002 chevy malibu since 2004, and have ecperienced the cooling system troubles, in fact I sprung an intake gasket leak, that I promptly dealt with luckily by using bars leak copper, no problems since, and luckily it was an outward leak with no contamination of the oil. I think the Gm 60 degree v6 engines might have done well with a few more bolts, but at the end of the day, it was the introduction of a new coolant that had a corrosive effect upon the gaskets. That is the dexcool debacle.

 

[dnewton3]

My filter experiences basically shadow my oil experiences.

At first, I knew nothing about oils and filters. I used to follow the OEM OCIs with cheap fluids and filters. Nothing bad ever happend.

Then I became aware of synthetics and premium filters. I simply had to have them. I used them religiously in normal applications, and laughed at those who "didn't know better" and were ignorant, as I had been.

Then, reality set in. I became much more educated in the world of lubricants (job necessity) and really submersed myself in finding out real data. Wow - was I ever prejudiced by marketing hype. Not that synthetics and premium filtration are bad; they are not bad. But they are also not "best" for all situations.

Same goes for the OCOD. I used to use it. Then I abhored it. Now, I respect it again. It hasn't changed; my attitude has.

I don't fear the OCOD now anymore than I do an inexpensive brand name oil. Used within their limits, they do the job admirably.

This photo series is yet more proof.

Did the fiber endcap fail? No.
Did the media fail? No.
Would a metal endcap have done any "better"? No.
Would more efficient media have stopped the coolant issues? No.

I'm not saying there are not good reasons to use "better" filters. I'm saying that for this normal OCI duration, this normal filter did a good job, as it promised to do.

 

[cp3]

And your van is still alive????? WOW!

On a more serious note, I don't think that new base plate will be too much of a problem. Maybe more so when the filter is buried in a blind location. If you can see the mount it would probably work ok. I will say with the coolant contamination, this looks pretty good. Seems maybe a bit more media than some EGs, looks good. Thanx for sharing!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: KevGuy
All; the orange can is your friend! Proof is here.


People pick their own friends.

 

[Jim Allen]

This is what I meant by "engineering" in the other post. It is engineered to do just what it did. Part of "engineering" is doing the mostest for the leastest. Fiber endcaps have worked for Fram since 1962. IIRC, the Fram folks said the difference in production costs between a fiber endcap and a metal one (maybe Motorking will chime in here) is only a few pennies, so Fram is fairly deliberate in choosing that material from an engineering POV. Most of the naysayers are drawing erroneous conclusions about them from heresay or fabricated "evidence." Not to say there aren't failures but failures are found in the other types/brands as well.

Again, the main point is that all types of endcaps work when properly engineers. There may be plus or minus point that can be made in support of one type or the other, but they all come out about even.

Now, who's gonna call me a fanboy, mouthpiece, shill, [censored] (in case it's censored; prostitute), accomplice, conspirator, or ??? (see thesaurus for more synonyms if you really want to dazzle me with your rapier wit and insulting skills).

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3

Would a metal endcap have done any "better"? No.


Maybe ... because if there is not a good seal between the ID of the fiber end caps and the ADBV (on one end) and the bypass valve assy (on the other end), then there could be dirty oil leaking past the media.

Would anyone know for sure if there was any dirty oil leakage at these points over 5,000+ mile OCI. No. IMO, it's less of a possibility with metal end caps ... just a little added "insurance" that there is a solid design to ensure no dirty oil leakage past the media and therefore full filtration.

This is one aspect I don't like about non-metal end caps, especially if they can flex and distort with use causing a possible dirty oil leakage past the media.

 

[KCJeep]

Good comments all thanks. For entry level value priced filters Motorcrafts would be my favorite but I'm no longer afraid of the orange can either. In fact it might become my preferred filter for this van since it's a little tricky to access and the black "Sure Grip" certainly helped installation. Motorcrafts for Chevy's don't seem easy to find but we use them on our Chrysler products routinely.

I'm doing very short OCI's on it now due to the coolant issue anyway, it's getting a jug of Rotella and a pint of MMO every 2.5k until I can afford to get it fixed.

I suspect the recent flush I did was what started this, I had no issues until after that had been done. Gaskets were probably borderline anyway. I also used the Barr's Copper and it fixed the intake leak so a new head gasket is apparently in order. We went through all this with our 2000 Lumina and I wasn't going to do it again, years later when we bought the 04 Venture on line research indicated the gasket issue had been "fixed" by 04 but that didn't turn out to be true.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
This is what I meant by "engineering" in the other post. It is engineered to do just what it did. Part of "engineering" is doing the mostest for the leastest. Fiber endcaps have worked for Fram since 1962. IIRC, the Fram folks said the difference in production costs between a fiber endcap and a metal one (maybe Motorking will chime in here) is only a few pennies, so Fram is fairly deliberate in choosing that material from an engineering POV. Most of the naysayers are drawing erroneous conclusions about them from heresay or fabricated "evidence." Not to say there aren't failures but failures are found in the other types/brands as well.

Again, the main point is that all types of endcaps work when properly engineers. There may be plus or minus point that can be made in support of one type or the other, but they all come out about even.

Now, who's gonna call me a fanboy, mouthpiece, shill, [censored] (in case it's censored; prostitute), accomplice, conspirator, or ??? (see thesaurus for more synonyms if you really want to dazzle me with your rapier wit and insulting skills).



You emotionally detached, logical, rational fanboy!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: driver123
The chevy 3.4 liter and 3.1 suffer from intake and head gasket troubles, mainly due to the dexcool debacle, these engines require intense maintenance of the cooling system. It's wise to flush the cooling system once a year


Let's all just flush the whole deathcool thing okay? Nothing wrong with the coolant, just the design and execution of the gasket and engine.

Dex is so 'bad' even Ford is using it.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
This is what I meant...


So true, Jim. We ran Fram exclusively for many years long ago. Never a peep across dozens and dozens of Dodges, Fords, and Chevys.

 

[skyship]

I am not a Fram fan, but there seems to be nothing wrong with this filter and the sludge could just be normal sludge. If there was coolant contamination in the UOA, then that is a serious matter and if you don't want to fix it the expensive correct way, then apart from short OCI's, try a can of stop leak in the coolant and a can of stop leak in the oil.
Liqui Moly make some good products for both jobs, BUT there is no guarantee that they will work, although if a real repair is too expensive it is worth a try.