Neon Vs Focus vs Cavalier

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: SLCraig

The engine itself, I doubt it.
The car? perhaps. Chryslers love to fail power door lock actuators and other random things like that. But that 2.0 SOHC is a wicked good little engine.


I doubt things like water pumps and other engine externals will go that long without requiring replacement, and that can run into some big bucks...


"Externals" most certainly do NOT run into "big bucks" on a Chrysler EDx series engine, unless its in a PT Cruiser where getting at the accessory adds a couple of shop hours. That's one of its appeals. Granted, you're right that not many people would keep a Neon (or to be fair, a Civic, Corolla, Sentra, Focus, or any other cheap generic compact) 300k miles. But that engine could sure do it as or more affordably than most imports.


There's are reasons people don't keep them that long...one of them is because the cars are junk and falling apart by then...that's not the case with Japanese compacts...and I'd like to see data that supports the notion that the current compacts are on par with the Japanese in terms of build quality and longevity...I have seen no such data...


You are just out to lunch man

 

[hypervish]

Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
That is the attitude of the typical "Toyotas are perfect" drone...the car is an oil guzzler, but thats fine, because Toyota says it's "normal". Unbelieveable.


I have to agree with this..My neighbor told me that this morning as he was adding 2 quarts of oil in his 2001 Corolla..I have yet to own a car that I had to add oil between service..Even on my 200-300K mile cars.


It's even funnier, when people who own Domestic cars tell me how reliable there vehicle is and then go on to tell me that they've ONLY replaced the transmission once, and the rear end once in 80k miles. LMAO

I won't go into the topic of Toyota's, as most of you know where I stand on that topic and there is no point in arguing over my opinion, or grampi's opinion.

 

[GearheadTool]

^^ My family member's old 88 Yota has 20W-50 motor oil and Lucas in it, to keep the motor going AND stop it from using oil. True story.

Also had a 2005 Dodge Neon SXT SE Auto trans and it was a piece of [censored]. Pretty, but, still.. [censored].

I choose the Focus, post-recalls. Nice lil car. The 2006 era Neons were attractive too.. if only they could take reliability up 3 notches.

Also, for Toyota (Corolla) bashers, please remember that Corollas were U.S.-built and also shared nameplate Chevrolet Prizm, up until 2002. If I am wrong about this, please correct me. Thank you.

 

[tgferg67]

Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE


I have to agree with this..My neighbor told me that this morning as he was adding 2 quarts of oil in his 2001 Corolla..I have yet to own a car that I had to add oil between service..Even on my 200-300K mile cars.


There was an oil consumption problem in the Toyota 1zz engine that was addressed in the 2003 engine with revised pistons. These engines consumed "some" oil but nothing like the notorious Saturn 1.9l that was "never" revised by GM.

I had Saturn 1.9L burned a quart of oil every 200 miles, it had to be re-ringed to stay out of the j/yard. Sold the Saturn and bought a high mileage Vibe(Toyota) and all of a sudden I'm not working on cars anymore.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: hypervish
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
That is the attitude of the typical "Toyotas are perfect" drone...the car is an oil guzzler, but thats fine, because Toyota says it's "normal". Unbelieveable.


I have to agree with this..My neighbor told me that this morning as he was adding 2 quarts of oil in his 2001 Corolla..I have yet to own a car that I had to add oil between service..Even on my 200-300K mile cars.


It's even funnier, when people who own Domestic cars tell me how reliable there vehicle is and then go on to tell me that they've ONLY replaced the transmission once, and the rear end once in 80k miles. LMAO

I won't go into the topic of Toyota's, as most of you know where I stand on that topic and there is no point in arguing over my opinion, or grampi's opinion.


185K on my Cherokee...only major repair was the A/C evaporator & heater core (both done at >180K). Engine (4.0 HO) and trans (auto) untouched, has the original PS pump, A/C compressor, master cylinder, and I think radiator. (If replaced, it was with a Chrysler part.) Per oil analysis by Blackstone Labs, the engine is in excellent shape even with high miles.

 

[yonyon]

The Cherokee isn't even close to the size of vehicle Nick R is looking at.

 

[ms21043]

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
The 2006 era Neons were attractive too.. if only they could take reliability up 3 notches.


^^^ Hard to up reliability 3 notches when the last year was 2005...

 

[cbear]

I bought my 03 Cavalier new. The non maintance items I've had to replace were an ignition module and a fuel pump. I now have 156k miles on it and drive it daily. I am starting to get some rust around the filler cap. I've noticed Cavalier start rotting around the rear wheel arches and the rocker box in front of the rear wheels. I don't think the fender liners are properly designed.

 

[GearheadTool]

Originally Posted By: ms21043
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
The 2006 era Neons were attractive too.. if only they could take reliability up 3 notches.


^^^ Hard to up reliability 3 notches when the last year was 2005...


Hehe, shows how much I didnt really care for the car. I thank you for the fact-check. Ok, then.. 2005 Neon.

If it could get more reliable, id take a second look at it.

 

[ms21043]

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Originally Posted By: ms21043
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
The 2006 era Neons were attractive too.. if only they could take reliability up 3 notches.


^^^ Hard to up reliability 3 notches when the last year was 2005...


Hehe, shows how much I didnt really care for the car. I thank you for the fact-check. Ok, then.. 2005 Neon.

If it could get more reliable, id take a second look at it.


Hehe, here's another fact for you; The last years of the Neon do no worse in reliability history than similar year Corollas. I'd say they actually do a little better. So, time for a second look?

This data is based on what technicians are actually having to repair on the vehicles as they age.

Corolla reliability

Neon reliability

where the data came from

 

[rjundi]

Interesting fighting over least exciting cars out there.

The only good reason to buy any of these cars above are economics. None have any other desirable traits.

 

[GearheadTool]

Originally Posted By: ms21043
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Originally Posted By: ms21043
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
The 2006 era Neons were attractive too.. if only they could take reliability up 3 notches.


^^^ Hard to up reliability 3 notches when the last year was 2005...


Hehe, shows how much I didnt really care for the car. I thank you for the fact-check. Ok, then.. 2005 Neon.

If it could get more reliable, id take a second look at it.


Hehe, here's another fact for you; The last years of the Neon do no worse in reliability history than similar year Corollas. I'd say they actually do a little better. So, time for a second look?

This data is based on what technicians are actually having to repair on the vehicles as they age.

Corolla reliability

Neon reliability

where the data came from



Are you suggesting that one was a lemon? I suppose it is possible.

Would you recommend looking at an SRT4 model not SXT SE or does it not matter? Now that 05 was last year.. Hmm.

EDUT: rjundi, Focii/FoFos are sporty just TINY. They feel Jetta-ish to me. Look it, too...

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Are you suggesting that one was a lemon? I suppose it is possible.

Would you recommend looking at an SRT4 model not SXT SE or does it not matter? Now that 05 was last year.. Hmm.

EDUT: rjundi, Focii/FoFos are sporty just TINY. They feel Jetta-ish to me. Look it, too...


The SRT-4 is a whole other animal. If you are just looking for a reliable DD that's good on gas, just look at a regular Neon. The SRT-4 puts down about 230 WHP bone stock and will outrun most stuff you find on the road. They are also only available in manual trans. Great cars, but not economical like the regular models.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: hypervish

It's even funnier, when people who own Domestic cars tell me how reliable there vehicle is and then go on to tell me that they've ONLY replaced the transmission once, and the rear end once in 80k miles. LMAO.


Those would be Honda owners. You know the ones with the glass transmissions. So much so that Honda denied it for at least 4 years and only barely admitted it.

Honda and Toyota are the worlds most overrated cars and trucks.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig


The SRT-4 is a whole other animal. If you are just looking for a reliable DD that's good on gas, just look at a regular Neon. The SRT-4 puts down about 230 WHP bone stock and will outrun most stuff you find on the road. They are also only available in manual trans. Great cars, but not economical like the regular models.


You can get an automatic.... but just has to come in wagon or convertible form - in a PT Cruiser.

So....when do we just "get rid of" these Chryslers because they've become "unreliable"?
We bought ours with 4000 miles on it 7 years ago.
Still more fun than a hot-tub full of Stepford Wives when you squash the long skinny pedal. Good transmission. Good engine power. Rotten mpg.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
totally untrue

If you visit a junkyard, I go every few weeks, you will get a random sampling of what was built 8-15 yrs ago, and is now at the end of life. By your logic I should see very few Civics or Corrollas because they last for ever. Or they will be much older models cyling in because they last longer.

Now I know you have to take into consideration the numbers sold etc but if you go often enough you will get a feel for cars with issues that get retired sooner, vs more durable cars which will last longer and when they do show up in the yard are older and have more miles when "retired".

I would say that some of the domestic low cost cars actually are older and have more miles when scrapped. So based on my observation I would never say the Civic is more durable.



I agree.

Also do a search on Autotrader for fun to see what kinds of vehicles rack up big mileage numbers.

If you discount the trucks the vehicles that run up the big mileage are the Ford Panthers, and lots of Saturns. A lot of the Japanese cars never seem to at least be for sale in the 300k, 400k, and 500k mile range. Lots of Ford's and GM's are though...

 

[GearheadTool]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Are you suggesting that one was a lemon? I suppose it is possible.

Would you recommend looking at an SRT4 model not SXT SE or does it not matter? Now that 05 was last year.. Hmm.

EDUT: rjundi, Focii/FoFos are sporty just TINY. They feel Jetta-ish to me. Look it, too...


The SRT-4 is a whole other animal. If you are just looking for a reliable DD that's good on gas, just look at a regular Neon. The SRT-4 puts down about 230 WHP bone stock and will outrun most stuff you find on the road. They are also only available in manual trans. Great cars, but not economical like the regular models.

And where may I find this 2005 last year SRT-4 BEASTS?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: VNTS
totally untrue

If you visit a junkyard, I go every few weeks, you will get a random sampling of what was built 8-15 yrs ago, and is now at the end of life. By your logic I should see very few Civics or Corrollas because they last for ever. Or they will be much older models cyling in because they last longer.

Now I know you have to take into consideration the numbers sold etc but if you go often enough you will get a feel for cars with issues that get retired sooner, vs more durable cars which will last longer and when they do show up in the yard are older and have more miles when "retired".

I would say that some of the domestic low cost cars actually are older and have more miles when scrapped. So based on my observation I would never say the Civic is more durable.



I agree.

Also do a search on Autotrader for fun to see what kinds of vehicles rack up big mileage numbers.

If you discount the trucks the vehicles that run up the big mileage are the Ford Panthers, and lots of Saturns. A lot of the Japanese cars never seem to at least be for sale in the 300k, 400k, and 500k mile range. Lots of Ford's and GM's are though...


Maybe in the larger segments, but you aren't gonna find 300K mile or more domestics for sale in the subcompact or compact segements...they just don't last that long...it's just been within the last few years that the dometics have finally started building small cars that will compete with the Japanese...nothing domestic that's 5 years old or older will compete...

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Are you suggesting that one was a lemon? I suppose it is possible.

Would you recommend looking at an SRT4 model not SXT SE or does it not matter? Now that 05 was last year.. Hmm.

EDUT: rjundi, Focii/FoFos are sporty just TINY. They feel Jetta-ish to me. Look it, too...


The SRT-4 is a whole other animal. If you are just looking for a reliable DD that's good on gas, just look at a regular Neon. The SRT-4 puts down about 230 WHP bone stock and will outrun most stuff you find on the road. They are also only available in manual trans. Great cars, but not economical like the regular models.

And where may I find this 2005 last year SRT-4 BEASTS?


They are not uncommon, check your local classifieds. There are a few in my area for sale right now on my local classified.
Great car though, they pull like crazy, and you can get reliable 300 WHP with ease.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: VNTS
totally untrue

If you visit a junkyard, I go every few weeks, you will get a random sampling of what was built 8-15 yrs ago, and is now at the end of life. By your logic I should see very few Civics or Corrollas because they last for ever. Or they will be much older models cyling in because they last longer.

Now I know you have to take into consideration the numbers sold etc but if you go often enough you will get a feel for cars with issues that get retired sooner, vs more durable cars which will last longer and when they do show up in the yard are older and have more miles when "retired".

I would say that some of the domestic low cost cars actually are older and have more miles when scrapped. So based on my observation I would never say the Civic is more durable.



I agree.

Also do a search on Autotrader for fun to see what kinds of vehicles rack up big mileage numbers.

If you discount the trucks the vehicles that run up the big mileage are the Ford Panthers, and lots of Saturns. A lot of the Japanese cars never seem to at least be for sale in the 300k, 400k, and 500k mile range. Lots of Ford's and GM's are though...


My findings with upper mileage Civic I sold was a for sale sign with a 225k 95 civic back in 2004 was gone within 1 hr in front of house for $2800. I am floored by that since I paid $10k for it used in 1996. It had no repairs except mufflerx2, brakes,tires, timing belt/plugs only at 100k and radiator.

My wife's 180k 96 Civic in 2005 in need of timing belt and major tuneup posted at university classified with sale with many responses for $3000.

Autotrader is for less desirable(to public) vehicles on the market hence GM and Ford at upper mileage, SUVs and those performance cars.