Hi all. As the title says, I have a 2004 Chevy Cavalier (2.2 liter ecotec engine) with 145k miles. The manual gives no service interval on this chain, and in fact says it's a "lifetime" part. Knowing GM, lifetime means 150k miles. This is an interference engine, and is in perfect shape otherwise. Long story short, I was hoping for some opinions: should I try to get to 300k with my fingers crossed, or bight the bullet and change the stupid thing? Just to clarify, I can do it myself, but it's still going to be $300 and VERY time consuming. Any opinions/advice would be appreciated.
2004 Cavalier timing chain question
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If you intend to go to 300K then change it at halfway as its doubtful you will get to 300K without a problem. The timing chains of today are not like those in my 1965 289 Mustang. Back then they would last forever and no one talked about timing chains and there were no belts. But the path is a lot more complex now and maybe cheaper chains, so they do break.
The whole point/advantage of having a timing chain (instead of a belt) is that you should NEVER have to change it. This applies to ALL engines with timing chains, not just Chevys. Just leave it alone; there's a 99.9999% chance it'll never give you any problems.
My son traded his Cavalier with ~170K and never changed the chain.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Chains aren't belts and don't need PM.
I'm going to disagree with this. In some engines, regular oil changes are necessary to keep a chain healthy. Failure to change the oil can cause sludging and premature chain failure.
Chains aren't belts and don't need PM.
I'm going to disagree with this. In some engines, regular oil changes are necessary to keep a chain healthy. Failure to change the oil can cause sludging and premature chain failure.
Originally Posted By: yonyon
In some engines, regular oil changes are necessary to keep a chain healthy. Failure to change the oil can cause sludging and premature chain failure.
In all engines, regular oil changes are necessary to keep everything healthy. There's no difference if it's got a timing chain or not.
As mentioned above, timing chains are intended to last the lifetime of the vehicle. They are not included in any maintenance schedule. Take care of your car like you should and the timing chain should never give you any trouble.
In some engines, regular oil changes are necessary to keep a chain healthy. Failure to change the oil can cause sludging and premature chain failure.
In all engines, regular oil changes are necessary to keep everything healthy. There's no difference if it's got a timing chain or not.
As mentioned above, timing chains are intended to last the lifetime of the vehicle. They are not included in any maintenance schedule. Take care of your car like you should and the timing chain should never give you any trouble.
As long as the inside of your engine (inside valve cover, for instance) is clean and sludge-free, and there is no chain noise, I would keep on driving it. Especially since the quality of some of the replacement parts is going to be hard to gauge-Gates and some others are using Chinese timing parts now!
Just use your ears. If the chain is making noise then look at replacing it. I drove my Saturn for about 30,000 KM with bad timing chain noise before I decided to replace it. It is a lifetime part if its kept up enough (oil) and I am sure yours is. Mine wasn't, but that is another matter.
Just keep driving it and keeping up on your OCI's and the chain will last a very long time.
Just keep driving it and keeping up on your OCI's and the chain will last a very long time.
There are some engines that have timing chain or tensioner issues that can require replacing those parts. But if your vehicle isn't one known to have those issues, I wouldn't change it.
Originally Posted By: yonyon
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Chains aren't belts and don't need PM.
I'm going to disagree with this. In some engines, regular oil changes are necessary to keep a chain healthy. Failure to change the oil can cause sludging and premature chain failure.
In which case the engine would probably need a rebuild rather than a timing chain change for pm, don't you think?
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Chains aren't belts and don't need PM.
I'm going to disagree with this. In some engines, regular oil changes are necessary to keep a chain healthy. Failure to change the oil can cause sludging and premature chain failure.
In which case the engine would probably need a rebuild rather than a timing chain change for pm, don't you think?
Originally Posted By: Donald
If you intend to go to 300K then change it at halfway as its doubtful you will get to 300K without a problem. The timing chains of today are not like those in my 1965 289 Mustang. Back then they would last forever and no one talked about timing chains and there were no belts. But the path is a lot more complex now and maybe cheaper chains, so they do break.
This is backwards^.
Timing chains and gears were a daily bread and butter job at shops. Esp with nylon coated gears.
For modern cars, it is the tensioners, guides, and gears which also have to be addressed. I'd check specific car forums for the general take on the life of components in your specific car.
If you intend to go to 300K then change it at halfway as its doubtful you will get to 300K without a problem. The timing chains of today are not like those in my 1965 289 Mustang. Back then they would last forever and no one talked about timing chains and there were no belts. But the path is a lot more complex now and maybe cheaper chains, so they do break.
This is backwards^.
Timing chains and gears were a daily bread and butter job at shops. Esp with nylon coated gears.
For modern cars, it is the tensioners, guides, and gears which also have to be addressed. I'd check specific car forums for the general take on the life of components in your specific car.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Timing chains and gears were a daily bread and butter job at shops. Esp with nylon coated gears.
You're thinking of timing GEARS. These were the really old style that had direct gearing between cam and crank. You had to coat at least one of the gears with nylon to quell the really loud whine that gears caused. Sometimes the entire tooth array on at least one gear was nylon or phenolic. The nylon frequently broke up and stripped, stranding the vehicle. These were heavy, noisy, and expensive; and, I believe, were largely displaced by chains from about the 1930s.
Most chain-driven cam-in-block American engines had an inverted-tooth chain system, also known as "silent chain". These did not need to be coated with anything; nor did they normally need replacement.
Timing chains and gears were a daily bread and butter job at shops. Esp with nylon coated gears.
You're thinking of timing GEARS. These were the really old style that had direct gearing between cam and crank. You had to coat at least one of the gears with nylon to quell the really loud whine that gears caused. Sometimes the entire tooth array on at least one gear was nylon or phenolic. The nylon frequently broke up and stripped, stranding the vehicle. These were heavy, noisy, and expensive; and, I believe, were largely displaced by chains from about the 1930s.
Most chain-driven cam-in-block American engines had an inverted-tooth chain system, also known as "silent chain". These did not need to be coated with anything; nor did they normally need replacement.
modern cars have been very good on chain and guide life but they really like clean and fresh oil so keep it changed and the chain will stay good, the Eco Tech engines have been good on life spann.
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Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Timing chains and gears were a daily bread and butter job at shops. Esp with nylon coated gears.
You're thinking of timing GEARS. These were the really old style that had direct gearing between cam and crank. You had to coat at least one of the gears with nylon to quell the really loud whine that gears caused. Sometimes the entire tooth array on at least one gear was nylon or phenolic. The nylon frequently broke up and stripped, stranding the vehicle. These were heavy, noisy, and expensive; and, I believe, were largely displaced by chains from about the 1930s.
Most chain-driven cam-in-block American engines had an inverted-tooth chain system, also known as "silent chain". These did not need to be coated with anything; nor did they normally need replacement.
Not quite. GM and Ford (and probably other makes) used a nylon upper gear on their timing chains in their lopo smallblock engines. This started sometime in the 70's IIRC and continued on up through the early 90's.
Example: Ford 302 (lopo version, Town Car, Grand Marquis...etc) had a single roller chain with a nylon toothed upper gear. The gears can, and do fail.
The 302HO from the Mustang, Cougar, Thunderbird, LSC (and some lucky lopo's like the one in my '89 Townie) all got a double roller timing set with metal gears. They last forever.
Same story with the gear drive on the 300 I6. Early models had metal gears. They were loud (like you mentioned). Ford's attempt to quiet them was to make the teeth on at least one of the gears nylon. They would break eventually, like mine did towing a trailer down the 401. Not a pleasant experience, and that's how my F-250 ended up with a 302HO in it.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Timing chains and gears were a daily bread and butter job at shops. Esp with nylon coated gears.
You're thinking of timing GEARS. These were the really old style that had direct gearing between cam and crank. You had to coat at least one of the gears with nylon to quell the really loud whine that gears caused. Sometimes the entire tooth array on at least one gear was nylon or phenolic. The nylon frequently broke up and stripped, stranding the vehicle. These were heavy, noisy, and expensive; and, I believe, were largely displaced by chains from about the 1930s.
Most chain-driven cam-in-block American engines had an inverted-tooth chain system, also known as "silent chain". These did not need to be coated with anything; nor did they normally need replacement.
Not quite. GM and Ford (and probably other makes) used a nylon upper gear on their timing chains in their lopo smallblock engines. This started sometime in the 70's IIRC and continued on up through the early 90's.
Example: Ford 302 (lopo version, Town Car, Grand Marquis...etc) had a single roller chain with a nylon toothed upper gear. The gears can, and do fail.
The 302HO from the Mustang, Cougar, Thunderbird, LSC (and some lucky lopo's like the one in my '89 Townie) all got a double roller timing set with metal gears. They last forever.
Same story with the gear drive on the 300 I6. Early models had metal gears. They were loud (like you mentioned). Ford's attempt to quiet them was to make the teeth on at least one of the gears nylon. They would break eventually, like mine did towing a trailer down the 401. Not a pleasant experience, and that's how my F-250 ended up with a 302HO in it.
I strongly believe in preventative maintenance but I agree with many of the postings here. I'd leave the chain alone. It is highly unlikely that it is going to break. We all want our cars to last 300k but the reality is that they will likely rust out, be wrecked, or we will just plain get bored with them long before that. Unless you hear about bad timing chains being a common problem with that engine or something, I wouldn't worry about it.
Thanks for all the great advice! I haven't heard of any problems with this engine's timing chain/tensioner, and my engine sounds and runs fine. I guess I'll just keep running it (and always have floating in the back of my mind, usually late at night on a lonely desert road, what if it breaks now.....?)
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