Cleaning carbon buildup off intake valves and pistons

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Its interesting you mention that, because I tried that with a toothbrush. I didn't make much progress. This stuff was more like plaque than dirt or anything. Its hard as a rock and really stuck on there. I'm sure enough work would have gotten most off, but there is no way I could even get to the back half of the valves.

I tried using throttle body cleaner on them, and that did nothing. Then I tried techron. Better, but not that great. Last I tried BG44k. That was quite a bit better, but it still didn't remove everything. Some little bits did come off, though. BTW, here is one of the better pictures I got of a valve. Its bad, but you can see the blackness: http://www.bethcutler.com/~swett/gallery/album29/IMG_0859

Interestingly, while I was trying to clean the valves, some BG44k and techron must have gone into the cylinders and loosened up some carbon, because the car just didn't want to start the first few times and the exhaust was smokey, a first ever for my car. I didn't realize it at the time, but it must have done a bit of piston cleaning while it was in there. The car did run better after that than before, but I don't think the task was complete in regard to the valves or the pistons. Also, two of the cylinders had their intake valves closed, so I don't think much got in there.

-Ian
 
nice picture.

i may just pick up some of that BG stuff. i thought that if i touch the valve with a toothbrush it will fall out hahaha...

im going to be taking off my intake manifold to swap it with another one with more airflow...anyways so i might as well clean up in there.
 
I picked up a bottle of Seafoam at the auto store and plan on using it tomorrow. I figure I'll start with a half bottle and see if that has a significant effect. I'm not going to put it in my oil or gas though, just through the intake. Nothing but Auto-RX and maybe LC are going in my Oil.

I noticed there is the 'standard' Berryman's B-12 formula for like $2.99, and then the 'complete tuneup' stuff for like $6. Whats the difference? Also, one place had B-12 available by the gallon. Is it good enough to get a gallon, and will there be any negative effects from running it so much?

-Ian
 
I'll add my $.02. Get some Neutra and Fuel Power. www.lubecontrol.com and Tim Mills make the ordering process for these a snap. Its well worth the slight inconvenience of not getting it right off the shelf.

Mix the Fuel Power and Neutra at the MolaBrew ratio of 3 parts FP to 1 part Neutra. Add at a ratio of 2oz. per 5 gallons for cleanup. Once cleanup is to your satisfaction, same brew at 1oz./5g. for continued cleanliness. If you don't feel like mixing, straight FP at the 1oz./5g. ratio works just fine.

I would avoid one time "shock" treatments or anything very aggressive. It took your engine a while to get dirty, so it will take some time to get it clean safely and effectively.

[ March 13, 2004, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: shortyb ]
 
some good advice already posted, but dont those 1.8T's get alot of blow-by? I was on the highway the other day and a relatively new looking one was accelerating to merge and there was a thick plume of blue smoke behind that thing. Thats where alot of carbon build-up can come from.
 
I don't think they should get that much blow-by(but I could be wrong), but they do get a fair amount of oil coming through the crank case ventilation. I was working on solving that with a catch can, but I never got that working the way I wanted.

The engines are 9.5:1 compression, so under boost, the car dumps a good amount of excess fuel. They're also pretty hard on oil since the sump is only 3.7 quarts.

Can any of you comment on Fuel Power versus Berryman's? Given I'm going to buy a gallon, which would be a better purchase? I almost bought some fuel power the other day, but no one came out too strongly in favor of it, so I decided to wait.

-Ian
 
Ian Swett ,
Fuel Power has been discussed in this forum numerous times.A search may help you make a decision.
Please read Dyson Analysis paper by Molakule .
Fuel Power not only cleans and stabilizes fuel,it often times increases fuel efficiency.
MolaKule has a technique for a Lube Control piston soak,I'll wait for him to reply to that question.

Mark

[ March 13, 2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
 
I have seen Fuel Power highly recommended before, which is why I was considering buying some.

I have read the Dyson analysis, but hadn't seen anything about piston soak before. I would like to hear about that.

-Ian

[ March 13, 2004, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Ian Swett ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ian Swett:
I have read the Dyson analysis, but hadn't seen anything about piston soak before. I would like to hear about that.

-Ian


Check paragraph 4.3 of the Dyson Analysis paper by MolaKule. It is stated as a pre-lube or end of season storage procedure but in essence is the "piston soak" procedure if I'm not mistaken.

I have done this to all my yard equipment and even "salvaged" my friend's string-line trimmer engine by doing this. He thought his engine was seized but this unstuck the rings and now runs great. I really enjoyed the beer he bought me for services rendered
grin.gif
.

[ March 14, 2004, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: shortyb ]
 
Amsoil Foam Engine Cleaner is a good one for the valves. Change oil afterword.

The "MOLASOKE" for pistons and rings involves removing the sparkplugs and pouring in about 2-3 oz. of LC into each cylinder and letting it soak for at least an hour.

Then take a 1/2" or 3/4" drive ratchet wrench with the proper socket and turn your crankshaft 1 revolution very slowly. Do NOT use the starter to turn crankshaft.

Let soak some more overnight and then shine a light into the cylinders to make sure the LC has run past the rings or you may have hydrolock. Replace plugs and start engine outside.
 
Would pouring the LC down the carb until it flooded out followed by a 24 hour rest, work better, worse or about the same?

I am trying to clean the piston tops and the combution chamber.

I have never worried too much about hydrolocking using this method but shoud I be? I know, be careful of backfires.


The problem I am tring to solve is pinging and run on after shut off in an old chevy 350 that really wants high octain gas.
 
Amsoil Foam Engine Cleaner, Fuel Power, Redline S1, and Schaeffer's Neutra are good for cleaning the valves and for burning off the carbon on top of the pistons.

As everyone has stated, you may need more than one application.

[ March 15, 2004, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 
Regarding the use of Sea Foam, is it safe to assume that using Sea Foam on a motor with high mileage may be recipe for disaster? I would like to use this product but fear that oil consumption may increase due to "over cleaning the carbon" deposits,losing compression, and ruining the O2 sensor. Is this something to be worried about?
 
Hey guys,

Keep in mind, that anything that gets blown through the exhaust will have to make it's way through the turbo... Not a good idea if chunks of carbon start flying through those blades spinning at a couple hundred thousand RPM unless you want to kill your turbo.

Have you pulled your spark plugs? What do they look like?

Is the car still under warranty? I would seriously consider taking it to the dealer to see what they might do for you.

-Dave
 
Dave, that is a very good point about the turbo. I haven't done the seafoam clean yet, just to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I guess my goal is to use whatever will liquify the carbon, instead of breaking it off into big chunks.

VW Dealers won't cover with loss of performance issues unless they throw a CEL or are otherwise really obvious. But I've driven in enough Passats to know the difference between my car and what it should run like.

-Ian
 
I used a bottle of seafoam this evening, but I can't really tell any difference. It smoked quite a bit, but no weird smells. I don't think it was as effective as when I accidentally poured BG44k into the cylinder, which caused the car not to want to start and to smell much worse.

I'm sort of tempted to just pour some BG44k into each injector hole and let it sit overnight, hopefully cleaning the valves and the tops of the pistons. Or maybe I'd do better to use the LC I ordered recently.

It is also possible the seafoam did a decent job cleaning, but that its not that strong, so I'll need another bottle worth.

-Ian
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ian Swett:
I have some pretty serious carbon buildup on my 2000 Passat 1.8T on the intake valves and the piston. The intake valves look pretty much identical to the dirty valves in the chevron techron ads, and I can't see any piston rings on the top of the pistons. I actually took my intake manifold off and tried to remove some of the carbon off the valves, but it didn't work very well. I got some off, but they certainly weren't clean afterwards. They just had less carbon mass on them.

I only have 25k on the car, so I'm bit concerned about whether this is a symptom of a larger problem or a cause, but the car isn't running quite like new, so I think its worth cleaning out and seeing if it comes back.

I've done a motorvac cleaning and tried BG44k, both of which might have helped some, but not significantly. I'm trying some Amsoil PI right now, but I doubt that'll end up working much better than either of the other two.

So what are my best options? I've heard GM Top Cleaner, SeaFoam and just plain water all will clean things out, but have to be sucked up into the intake.

I considered trying lube control as a top cleaner, but I don't know how it compares to the other options. I've also considered buying some fuel power, but since it seems like I have some nasty deposits, I'm not sure that would be strong enough to do anything in a reasonable time period.

-Ian


Lube-Control and Fuel Power will remove the varnish and carbon without you having to scrub or scrape any surfaces!

I recommend that you add 10 oz of Lube-Control to your engine oil and 1 0z of Fuel Power to each 5 gallon of fuel. You should notice an improvement in engine performance, reduced varnish & carbon within the first couple of hundred miles.

If you need any other information, please call me. Odis Beaver, (972) 221-1343
 
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