Wow. This is craziness.
http://news.yahoo.com/us-hikes-mileage-standards-cars-trucks-192909854--nascar.html
http://news.yahoo.com/us-hikes-mileage-standards-cars-trucks-192909854--nascar.html
New milegae standard by 2025
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They're talking about unadjusted CAFE combined fuel economy. It won't make as dramatic a difference as it sounds.
CAFE is a bit of a rigged game. For instance, my Cruze gets 44 mpg combined in its unadjusted CAFE average, while our Fit gets 40 mpg combined for its unadjusted CAFE average.
Getting 10 and 14 mpg unadjusted is doable. Chevy found 4 mpg with my Cruze vs. a non-Eco-manual-transmission Cruze, and it's not the most expensive Cruze in the lineup, either!
This is totally doable. I bet we see a slew of ads touting how automakers are compliant with the 2025 CAFE regulations in 6-7 years.
Link to downloadable fuel economy data from the DEA's fueleconomy.gov website: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml
Check out the unadjusted data. Those are some crazy numbers!
CAFE is a bit of a rigged game. For instance, my Cruze gets 44 mpg combined in its unadjusted CAFE average, while our Fit gets 40 mpg combined for its unadjusted CAFE average.
Getting 10 and 14 mpg unadjusted is doable. Chevy found 4 mpg with my Cruze vs. a non-Eco-manual-transmission Cruze, and it's not the most expensive Cruze in the lineup, either!
This is totally doable. I bet we see a slew of ads touting how automakers are compliant with the 2025 CAFE regulations in 6-7 years.
Link to downloadable fuel economy data from the DEA's fueleconomy.gov website: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml
Check out the unadjusted data. Those are some crazy numbers!
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Great, cars we can put in our pockets.
54.4mpg sounds good to me!
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out and what technologies are used to achieve it. It could be that we get a lot of electric & plug-in hybrid vehicles whose "equivalent" mpg qualify. It could mean we use less oil but more coal.
It'll be interesting to see how this plays out and what technologies are used to achieve it. It could be that we get a lot of electric & plug-in hybrid vehicles whose "equivalent" mpg qualify. It could mean we use less oil but more coal.
Originally Posted By: volk06
All I see this doing is making vehicles cost more. The free market will always produce the best items at the best costs driven by the consumer. Today the consumer's wants are high mpg, high horsepower, or a big suv or truck with those combined into one. I do think this is helping to push automakers make more fuel efficient cars but at the consumers cost as the industry is manipulated by the government.
There are MANY instances where Gov't intervention and laws made products better. Food regulation is one big area. Medical devices are another. Airplane industry and regs., etc..
The free market does as little as possible, and historically has been dangerous.
As to MPG in cars, look at the huge SUVs and such that suck up fuel. This is free market at it's nadir. Without Gov't controls, it would be even worse.
All I see this doing is making vehicles cost more. The free market will always produce the best items at the best costs driven by the consumer. Today the consumer's wants are high mpg, high horsepower, or a big suv or truck with those combined into one. I do think this is helping to push automakers make more fuel efficient cars but at the consumers cost as the industry is manipulated by the government.
There are MANY instances where Gov't intervention and laws made products better. Food regulation is one big area. Medical devices are another. Airplane industry and regs., etc..
The free market does as little as possible, and historically has been dangerous.
As to MPG in cars, look at the huge SUVs and such that suck up fuel. This is free market at it's nadir. Without Gov't controls, it would be even worse.
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Free market is full of crooks and people are dumb. Gimme a huge car with a huge engine because I have pride issues and I'll complain about gas costing too much because miles per gallon was never a priority to me.
People are more likely to blame gas prices then the efficiency of their cars, so its a wonderful conundrum, because this free market is a leech of instability and mismanaged priorities trying to shift to onus on other people.
Oil prices should just go through the roof so we can finally shift to new manageable technologies rather then people keeping us just on the edge of it.
People are more likely to blame gas prices then the efficiency of their cars, so its a wonderful conundrum, because this free market is a leech of instability and mismanaged priorities trying to shift to onus on other people.
Oil prices should just go through the roof so we can finally shift to new manageable technologies rather then people keeping us just on the edge of it.
Originally Posted By: volk06
All I see this doing is making vehicles cost more. The free market will always produce the best items at the best costs driven by the consumer. Today the consumer's wants are high mpg, high horsepower, or a big suv or truck with those combined into one. I do think this is helping to push automakers make more fuel efficient cars but at the consumers cost as the industry is manipulated by the government.
The free market in fact does not always move products in the right direction. I believe in the free market, and it is great but will it always produce the best items at the best costs? Nope.
For example, you have a lot of people choose cars based on fashion and status that means most people are foolish when choosing a car because they buy the car they want instead of the car they need. Most pick up truck owners cannot justify owning a truck, getting a V10 or V8, yet they do massive damage to their futures with such purchases. Luxo car buyers do the same thing, and in fact most Luxo car buyers cannot afford their cars. The free market is not about economy, objectivity, and justifying one's choices. What drives a lot of car purchases is greed, showing off, immaturity, selfishness, and the children and their braces and college years be [censored]. So the gov wants to raise CAFE to 50+? That is a greast thing and I do not believe for one second that it will cause massive price increases in cars.
All I see this doing is making vehicles cost more. The free market will always produce the best items at the best costs driven by the consumer. Today the consumer's wants are high mpg, high horsepower, or a big suv or truck with those combined into one. I do think this is helping to push automakers make more fuel efficient cars but at the consumers cost as the industry is manipulated by the government.
The free market in fact does not always move products in the right direction. I believe in the free market, and it is great but will it always produce the best items at the best costs? Nope.
For example, you have a lot of people choose cars based on fashion and status that means most people are foolish when choosing a car because they buy the car they want instead of the car they need. Most pick up truck owners cannot justify owning a truck, getting a V10 or V8, yet they do massive damage to their futures with such purchases. Luxo car buyers do the same thing, and in fact most Luxo car buyers cannot afford their cars. The free market is not about economy, objectivity, and justifying one's choices. What drives a lot of car purchases is greed, showing off, immaturity, selfishness, and the children and their braces and college years be [censored]. So the gov wants to raise CAFE to 50+? That is a greast thing and I do not believe for one second that it will cause massive price increases in cars.
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I am in favor of this but I do worry about how the automakers plan to do this.
1. I think the cost of the automobile will be outrageous by 2025 with the new standards, but I guess I could be wrong.
2. If I am wrong I fear that the cars will be very cheaply built and feel like riding in a soda can....I like driving the older cars becuase they feel more solidly built now a days so ic ant imagine when they lighten them more to comply with fuel standards
I would not mind saving gas but dont want to pay for it somehwere else or in safety either.
1. I think the cost of the automobile will be outrageous by 2025 with the new standards, but I guess I could be wrong.
2. If I am wrong I fear that the cars will be very cheaply built and feel like riding in a soda can....I like driving the older cars becuase they feel more solidly built now a days so ic ant imagine when they lighten them more to comply with fuel standards
I would not mind saving gas but dont want to pay for it somehwere else or in safety either.
Originally Posted By: 4x4chevydude
I am in favor of this but I do worry about how the automakers plan to do this.
1. I think the cost of the automobile will be outrageous by 2025 with the new standards, but I guess I could be wrong.
2. If I am wrong I fear that the cars will be very cheaply built and feel like riding in a soda can....I like driving the older cars becuase they feel more solidly built now a days so ic ant imagine when they lighten them more to comply with fuel standards
I would not mind saving gas but dont want to pay for it somehwere else or in safety either.
+1
I am in favor of this but I do worry about how the automakers plan to do this.
1. I think the cost of the automobile will be outrageous by 2025 with the new standards, but I guess I could be wrong.
2. If I am wrong I fear that the cars will be very cheaply built and feel like riding in a soda can....I like driving the older cars becuase they feel more solidly built now a days so ic ant imagine when they lighten them more to comply with fuel standards
I would not mind saving gas but dont want to pay for it somehwere else or in safety either.
+1
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Oil prices should just go through the roof so we can finally shift to new manageable technologies rather then people keeping us just on the edge of it.
It really scares me when people say things like this. Especially if they can vote in the US.
It would take YEARS to make such a shift. The carnage and disaster that would ensue during the period between oil going through the roof and that new technology would throw the world into chaos.
Unbelievable.
Oil prices should just go through the roof so we can finally shift to new manageable technologies rather then people keeping us just on the edge of it.
It really scares me when people say things like this. Especially if they can vote in the US.
Unbelievable.
All- my apologies. The moderators felt my mention of "Ob*ma" politicized this post, in spite of the fact that the link mentioned "Ob*ma" several times. If my off handed remark offended anybody I sincerely apologize by mentioning the presidents name when discussing an initiative signed into law by President Ob*ma and bringing unnecessary political flavor into the post.
There is going to have to be a fundamental change in engine technology to achieve this.
BTW launching oil prices into the stratosphere before we have a new technology well proven and ready to go into place would be the equivalent to committing economic suicide. It would send everything we know and rely upon for everything we need to survive in corresponding sky-rocketing price range. Everything runs on gas gradually weaning ourselves would be a better plan.
BTW launching oil prices into the stratosphere before we have a new technology well proven and ready to go into place would be the equivalent to committing economic suicide. It would send everything we know and rely upon for everything we need to survive in corresponding sky-rocketing price range. Everything runs on gas gradually weaning ourselves would be a better plan.
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
There is going to have to be a fundamental change in engine technology to achieve this.
The target could met today.
You are probably reading that as "if we wanted to, we could do it today". What I actually mean is "under the rules, the average could be met".
How? The average includes electric cars and plug-in hybrids. There is a simple formula for converting miles per watt-hour into MPG. Build enough plug-in hybrids at "150 MPG (equivalent)" and you can still sell pushrod V8 SUVs.
There is going to have to be a fundamental change in engine technology to achieve this.
The target could met today.
You are probably reading that as "if we wanted to, we could do it today". What I actually mean is "under the rules, the average could be met".
How? The average includes electric cars and plug-in hybrids. There is a simple formula for converting miles per watt-hour into MPG. Build enough plug-in hybrids at "150 MPG (equivalent)" and you can still sell pushrod V8 SUVs.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Oil prices should just go through the roof so we can finally shift to new manageable technologies rather then people keeping us just on the edge of it.
It really scares me when people say things like this. Especially if they can vote in the US.
It would take YEARS to make such a shift. The carnage and disaster that would ensue during the period between oil going through the roof and that new technology would throw the world into chaos.
Unbelievable.
The challenge is that many fight tooth and nail against intervening technology-wise to be ready for when the time comes. nobody has ever come to meet my challenge of proving that the kinetics of oil formation (as a renewable resource) are equal to our use rate and the use rate when 3 Billion more people come online in the functional world.
Meanwhile, Ill bet China, who is investing hundreds of Billions of Dollars into the same kind of tech, likely wont claim one lost job, one stagnation, one tax gripe the way we do here when planning and readying their infrastructure for it.
Quote:
Beijing plans to invest US$372 billion to conserve energy and launch anti-pollution projects over the next three and a half years, part of a push to cut its coal consumption by 300 million tonnes, Reuters reported. A report from China's State Council said the move would take the country about halfway towards its goal of reducing national energy intensity to 16% below 2010 levels by 2015. The government plans to invest US$155 billion in projects that will help reduce energy use and increase efficiency, with a large portion of the funding going towards industry. The plan proposes cuts in energy use per unit of production by 25% for steel producers, 8% for coal-fired power plants and 3% for cement production over the next five years.
http://www.chinaeconomicreview.com/china-invest-372bn-energy-efficiency
Ill bet their growth still will remain 8%+ despite this that some would view as "tragic" and completely wrong.
I think these fuel economy regulations are a good thing and will bring innovation and new technology forward. The unfortunate part is that most of it will not be done by our taxpaying population on our shores.
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Oil prices should just go through the roof so we can finally shift to new manageable technologies rather then people keeping us just on the edge of it.
It really scares me when people say things like this. Especially if they can vote in the US.
Unbelievable.
The challenge is that many fight tooth and nail against intervening technology-wise to be ready for when the time comes. nobody has ever come to meet my challenge of proving that the kinetics of oil formation (as a renewable resource) are equal to our use rate and the use rate when 3 Billion more people come online in the functional world.
Meanwhile, Ill bet China, who is investing hundreds of Billions of Dollars into the same kind of tech, likely wont claim one lost job, one stagnation, one tax gripe the way we do here when planning and readying their infrastructure for it.
Quote:
Beijing plans to invest US$372 billion to conserve energy and launch anti-pollution projects over the next three and a half years, part of a push to cut its coal consumption by 300 million tonnes, Reuters reported. A report from China's State Council said the move would take the country about halfway towards its goal of reducing national energy intensity to 16% below 2010 levels by 2015. The government plans to invest US$155 billion in projects that will help reduce energy use and increase efficiency, with a large portion of the funding going towards industry. The plan proposes cuts in energy use per unit of production by 25% for steel producers, 8% for coal-fired power plants and 3% for cement production over the next five years.
http://www.chinaeconomicreview.com/china-invest-372bn-energy-efficiency
Ill bet their growth still will remain 8%+ despite this that some would view as "tragic" and completely wrong.
I think these fuel economy regulations are a good thing and will bring innovation and new technology forward. The unfortunate part is that most of it will not be done by our taxpaying population on our shores.
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