No 0w20 in Australia and this is why

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Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Let's keep in mind that in the mid 80s it was CAFE that drove car makers in the US to adopt 5w30 when 10w30 and 10w40 were the "norm" here and 20w50 was considered "thin" in Australia. Now 5w30 is the "norm" even in Australia.


20W-50 was never considered "thin", it was just the standard viscosity. All the xW-60, 70, and 80s started in the late 80s, and I can't believe that it took off, but marketing will do that.

If you look at the shelves, 5W-30 isn't "norm" for DIY, regardless of what the workshop uses, but it's making inroads, and workmates don't look at me boggle eyed anymore when I suggest it.
 
Yes 20wt oil has been around and available forever.
Virtually all manufacturers in NA and Europe specified 5W-20 back in the 80's for sub-freezing operation. It's only with the advent of 0W/5W-30/40 grade oils had the 20wt grade been abandoned by many OEMs starting in the early '90s.

The resurgence in the past 10 tears or so in the 20wt grade with many OEMs has a lot to do with technical advances in motor oil.
CAFE may have been a motivator in part, but the constant drive for increased engine efficiency is the main reason for the adoption of the 0W/5W-20 grade for year round use.
For example, the 0W/5W-20 oils of today are much more shear stable than the 5W-30 oils back in the 80's to the point that at the end of the recommended OCI the viscosity of today's 20wt oil is likely higher.

Saying the use of lighter oils is all about CAFE implies sacrifies in engine durability and longevity have been made and that's simply not the case.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Saying the use of lighter oils is all about CAFE implies sacrifies in engine durability and longevity have been made and that's simply not the case.


No one here argues about sacrifices, except for high end severe service and that's well understood on BITOG.
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
tig1 - I used 20w-20 lubricants in NZ, Oz and in Eurpoe in the 1950s and 1960s - in many engine families - when working with Caltex-Chvron. No failures because of the viscosity

20w-50 was never considered thin here in Oz. The 20w-50 viscosity lubricant was especially made by Duckhams for the combined engine/gearbox BMC Mini around 1958-9. Castrol followed a little later. It was adopted as a fix all by many car owners. 10w-30 was the most popular viscosity in NZ and Oz in the late 1960s on


Doug'
I stated using Valvoline 20wt HD in the late 60s and early 70s when QS 10-40 caused a lot of sludge. In the later 70s is when I went to M1 5-20.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Saying the use of lighter oils is all about CAFE implies sacrifies in engine durability and longevity have been made and that's simply not the case.


No one here argues about sacrifices, except for high end severe service and that's well understood on BITOG.

Again your assuming some sacrifices are being made and I'm saying there are NO sacrifices at all being made.
The minimum safety margins in place when a 20wt oil is specified are as high as they have ever been. This is due amongst other reasons to the quality of 20wt oils today , better engine controls that prevent extremely high oil and coolant temp's and computer fail safe systems.

If I lived in OZ and had the OP's Honda CRV I'd certainly look into running a 0W-20 grade knowing that's what's specified elsewhere.
 
Hi,
tig1 - Yes HD20s were my favorite in Europe in the 1960s. From VWs to Porsches and MBs, SAAB, Volvos, Cologne Fords, Moskvichs (not Tatras they were HD30), most English cars except the Mini, FIATs and Alfas and a few others. And perhaps HD30s too. 10w-30 was introduced largely via the US prescence in Germany
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Saying the use of lighter oils is all about CAFE implies sacrifies in engine durability and longevity have been made and that's simply not the case.


I don't see how saying that CAFE was a driver to go to 20s implies anything of the sort, other than it was a significant part of the equation.

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
If I lived in OZ and had the OP's Honda CRV I'd certainly look into running a 0W-20 grade knowing that's what's specified elsewhere.


True, that's why I'm running 5W-30 in my L67, when the OEM specs 20W-50, and 15W-40 for "cold" service, and 5W-30 in my Nissan, which specs 15W-40, when later years recommend 5W-30.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Again your assuming some sacrifices are being made and I'm saying there are NO sacrifices at all being made.


We've been through this recently and it was a waste of time.

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

If I lived in OZ and had the OP's Honda CRV I'd certainly look into running a 0W-20 grade knowing that's what's specified elsewhere.


It goes both ways. If I owned the same car specifying 0W20 only in USA and knew the rest of the word was specifies something else, that would make me think some.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
It's a good answer because it blames another country and gets the customer off the back. The customer will say, oh yes of course and life goes on.


You and Pablo are both right. It's very convenient to blame another jurisdiction.

To elaborate on Pablo's point, we have to remember geography. While Australia is far from identical weather in every region of the country, as Doug Hillary pointed out with some fine examples, the U.S. has huge, huge differences. Death Valley in summer is not the same as Minot (much less parts of Alaska) in winter. I suspect a different viscosity specification per state would create all kinds of havoc.

If the U.S. (and Canada, by extension), didn't have CAFE, had a more "level" climate all around, and had oil change techs and vehicle owners who would pay attention to differing viscosity specs, I suppose we could have more "choice" while under warranty. It's not just one factor. There's CAFE. People can't read manuals and blame the manufacturer when they put 20w-50 in during a Saskatchewan winter. They don't want to change oil with the seasons. It goes on.

That being said, I'm perfectly fine with using a 5w-30 (or whatever) all year round. For the most part, the days of ridiculously short OCIs are over, and I'm content with not having to change oil twice a year merely because of weather on a low usage vehicle. Then again, I avoided that practice for years already unless there was an overriding reason to do so in the first place.
 
Originally Posted By: supercity
Really? So what can and can't for example?


With respect to pulling trailers with passenger cars, it's not so much a "can't" in North America, but something that's generally not recommended or simply frowned upon. As I've mentioned in other threads about the oil issue and how North American manuals seem to have the viscosity chart clipped out crudely, without all the wording being re-edited, trailer towing is often mentioned in the same mangled references. They'll refer in the oil section (and others) about precautions for towing trailers, then later on have a ridiculously low weight limit for trailers or prohibit them altogether.

That could be for liability concerns, respect out of various state or provincial legislation, the desire for automakers to sell dedicated tow vehicles (i.e. high cost trucks and SUVs), and the general propensity for the North American driver to choose a truck or SUV for towing in the first place. Look back at some of the land yachts that were very recently produced. A Town Car/CV/Grand Marquis could have a towing capacity of 10,000 lbs with very little in the way of modification. You almost never see a Town Car pulling anything, much less something approaching 10,000 lbs. The Town Car owner would likely have a truck if he were pulling.

Heck, when I had my Town Car, I still had the F-150 in my signature for the rare time I had to tow anything at all (and I don't tow much weight). My dad was the same way, and he spent some time as a commercial hauler. He never, ever had a car smaller than a full sized Caprice (i.e. 1996 version and earlier) or Town Car. None of them ever had a hitch; he always had a pickup for towing.
 
There are other countries in the world than the US and Aust - I wonder what the others use? Here in NZ I reckon it's 90% 15-40....20-50 for an old worn engine and maybe 10-30 for someone who's fussy about their fancy car. 15-40 - works everywhere in everything....we have wrecking yards full of bodies with good engines to prove it.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Again your assuming some sacrifices are being made and I'm saying there are NO sacrifices at all being made.


We've been through this recently and it was a waste of time.

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

If I lived in OZ and had the OP's Honda CRV I'd certainly look into running a 0W-20 grade knowing that's what's specified elsewhere.


It goes both ways. If I owned the same car specifying 0W20 only in USA and knew the rest of the world . . specifies something else, that would make me think some.

Good point. Whatever may be the strengths or weaknesses of 0W-20 weight motor oil, it cannot be mere coincidence that the Honda Motor Company only recommends 0W-20 here, and 5W-30, 10W-30 and 0W-30 elsewhere (ROW) where the requirements and financial incentives of CAFE don't exist.
 
Note that the above post doesn't claim piles of engines at the side of the road as a sacrifice at the feet of the great owl statue of CAFE.
 
Exactly.
I would add that I certainly don't agree with the argument that "it goes both ways".
If a vehicle has been engineered to run on a 0W-20 with no ambient temperature or other limitations then that's all that's required and a 30wt oil is simply heavier than necessary even at maximum oil temp's. The fact that 0W/5W-30 oil may be specified in OZ has more to do with other factors such as oil grade availability.
(Is there a single plant blending 20wt oil in OZ?)
In the generally mild to hot OZ and NZ climate I would posit that the advantages of a 0W-20 oil are minimized over a light 0W/5W-30 to the point that the motivation to make the grade more available just isn't there. And the push-back from the thick oil culture certainly doesn't help.
 
If they can make a Prius available, they can make 0W-20 available...

Heck, they could put a couple of cases of 0W-20 in the boot when they ship it, and have the oil changes covered for the life of the car...

if they thought that 0W-20 was necessary.

The availability argument is moot, when fully imported nextgen is only available in 15W-40, it being fully imported, AND a viscosity range not offered in it's home country.
 
You said that already in another thread, Shannow!
wink.gif


Plainly put, the 0w-20 isn't "necessary." They may want customers to use it for a variety of reasons. It certainly may be the optimal lubricant for the vehicle.

Necessary is a whole different ball of wax. What would be their incentive to mandate 0w-20 in Australia? The only real advantage I could see, from an automaker's perspective, would be that it might encourage customers to go to the dealer for overpriced oil changes, akin to the relative rarity of certain proprietary German speced oils up here in a smaller city.

If that car still runs reliably and without increased warranty claims, the government doesn't care, and the customers aren't clamouring for a lighter oil, what would be the incentive?

There's one important thing to remember when it comes to CAFE and oil choices in the U.S. (and Canada) versus those in Europe and Australia. On this continent, the automakers are the ones faced with penalties for poor fuel economy. So, an oil choice making a fractional difference to the customer makes a major difference to the automaker.

In other parts of the world, where fuel prices are much, much higher, it's the customer that is penalized for poor fuel economy. They don't need a tenth of a percent better fuel economy by switching to 0w-20. They need a vehicle that actually gets acceptable fuel economy to begin with, and whether it's running on 15w-40 or 0w-20 is close to irrelevant.

If CAFE went bye-bye and fuel jumped to $10 per gallon here or in the States, things might be different.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak


In other parts of the world, where fuel prices are much, much higher, it's the customer that is penalized for poor fuel economy. They don't need a tenth of a percent better fuel economy by switching to 0w-20. They need a vehicle that actually gets acceptable fuel economy to begin with,


Yes, in other parts of the world people don't need a specific oil to get an economical vehicle, they just use an economical vehicle to begin with - 4 cyl cars, diesel cars and commercial vehicles. Makes more sense to me.
 
After any number of thick vs thin threads, all we really know is that either a twenty grade or a thirty grade will work just fine in most engines, with no systematic difference in engine life.
While the adoption of 5W & 0W-20s may have been motivated at least in part by the desire to maximize the fuel efficiency of existing designs, it has also provided other benefits.
Nothing wrong with running the Aussie or Brit or Kiwi thick oil in your engine or the Yank thin one.
Either will work and will allow the engine to last longer than the car in which it's installed.
 
i am proud of my japanese 0W20; the old, tired, intuitive wisdom is that thicker protects better, of course; then you take into account some thing like say new technologies, nanotechnologies; and then there is oil pressure; vvt engines use oil pressure to derive better performance; it is time to evolve-to see the light; no less an authority than the professor of motor oil university is using lighter oils in his high output european performance cars; this is great 5 empty pages of discussion of australian oil; i'm gonna go arm wrestle with the dipsticks about dipstick level.
 
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