LE1605 2004 S2000 rear differential UOA and VOA

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INDYMAC

INDYMAC

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Just continuing some trending with this OEM stock Torsen diff. I didn't plan to change it so soon. But since I had it on jack stands for tranny fluid change, I thought I'd change the diff and engine oil too.

This diff holds 0.81 quarts total fluid, so it gets a good workout!

The most recent UOA and VOA were done by Polaris Labs Houston. The previous testing of 1605 (SAE110) and 607 (SAE90) were done by Blackstone Labs.

I apologize for not getting a V100C reading. Polaris is a new lab for me and we're going through some growing pains.

Code:
LE1605 LE1605 LE1605 LE607 LE607

65,260 miles Clean Ref 46,442 miles 26,250 14,835

4,633 miles 6,000 miles 11,415 8,000

8/11/2012 8/11/2012 5/29/2009 3/23/2006 1/26/2005



Iron 17 1 79 172 188

Chromium 0 0 1 1 2

Nickel 1 0 9 17 20

Aluminum 0 0 0 2 1

Copper 0 0 0 0 1

Lead 0 0 0 0 0

Tin 0 0 0 0 0

Cadmium 0 0 NA NA NA

Silver 0 0 0 0 0

Vanadium 0 0 NA NA NA

Silicon 3 0 10 41 36

Sodium 0 0 2 2 1

Potassium 2 0 1 1 6

Titanium 0 0 1 0 0

Molybdenum 0 3 0 0 0

Antimony 0 0 NA NA NA

Manganese 0 0 1 4 0

Lithium 0 1 NA NA NA

Boron 68 88 44 12 32

Magnesium 14 0 5 13 8

Calcium 10 6 9 6 14

Barium 0 0 1 0 2

Phosphorous 1233 1154 1190 1591 1481

Zinc 20 4 11 14 11



SUS@210F NA NA 97.2 93.4 89.4

cStV@100C NA NA 19.69 18.79 17.83

cStV@40C 206 222 NA NA NA

Water%
Insolubles% NA NA 0.2 0.3 0.5

TAN 1.98 1.78 NA NA NA
 
Yes, there was no metal this time, and very little if any sludge. The last few changes, you don't even feel like you have to clean the drain plug.
 
where can you get LE in gallon jugs? I would like to get some Synolec 75w90 but they sell it in 5 gallon pials only?
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
If so, the SAE110 did make a difference for you.


If you mean it's a viscosity thing, probably not. 1605 replaced 607 after SAE J306 went into effect. With a cStV@100C of 20.96 and cStV@40C of 235.5, LE607 would have been classified a SAE110 gear oil by today's standards.

I think what we are seeing here is a combination of things. The gear oil is changed often. The gear set is broken in now. And the 1605 Duolec is an improvement over the 607 Almasol additive package in that it runs cooler, runs cleaner, and protects better. That's what LE will tell you also.

The Torsen LSD is the weak link in the S2000 drive train. That's why I overservice it I guess.
 
Originally Posted By: oliver88
where can you get LE in gallon jugs? I would like to get some Synolec 75w90 but they sell it in 5 gallon pials only?


I've never seen gallon jugs of Synolec. You might call Speedway Motors and ask them if they can provide it for you. They re-bottle LE1604 and 1606 in gallon jugs.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC

If you mean it's a viscosity thing, probably not. 1605 replaced 607 after SAE J306 went into effect. With a cStV@100C of 20.96 and cStV@40C of 235.5, LE607 would have been classified a SAE110 gear oil by today's standards.


You are right, I forgot about that old 90/new 110 thing.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
If so, the SAE110 did make a difference for you.

I think what we are seeing here is a combination of things. The gear oil is changed often. The gear set is broken in now. And the 1605 Duolec is an improvement over the 607 Almasol additive package in that it runs cooler, runs cleaner, and protects better. That's what LE will tell you also.
Isnt Almasol (the previous LE 607 solid additive) better in resisting load/pressure, than Duolec (the new LE 1605 liquid additive) ?
 
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
If so, the SAE110 did make a difference for you.

I think what we are seeing here is a combination of things. The gear oil is changed often. The gear set is broken in now. And the 1605 Duolec is an improvement over the 607 Almasol additive package in that it runs cooler, runs cleaner, and protects better. That's what LE will tell you also.
Isnt Almasol (the previous LE 607 solid additive) better in resisting load/pressure, than Duolec (the new LE 1605 liquid additive) ?
Not according to their published test data.
 
INDYMAC,
Were you easier on the car this last fill? That's a pretty dramatic reduction in wear.

Also, do you think torsen diffs tend to show more wear than open diffs or clutch-type positraction units? Don't torsen diffs have more teeth and/ore moving steel parts?

Looking forward to my test of the Chevron Delo 80W-90 in my S2000's diff.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
If so, the SAE110 did make a difference for you.

I think what we are seeing here is a combination of things. The gear oil is changed often. The gear set is broken in now. And the 1605 Duolec is an improvement over the 607 Almasol additive package in that it runs cooler, runs cleaner, and protects better. That's what LE will tell you also.
Isnt Almasol (the previous LE 607 solid additive) better in resisting load/pressure, than Duolec (the new LE 1605 liquid additive) ?
Not according to their published test data.

To clarify, Almasol is solid, and DUOLEC is a liquid. Which is a better EP additive? I can't answer that.
 
Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
INDYMAC,
Were you easier on the car this last fill? That's a pretty dramatic reduction in wear.

Also, do you think torsen diffs tend to show more wear than open diffs or clutch-type positraction units? Don't torsen diffs have more teeth and/ore moving steel parts?

Looking forward to my test of the Chevron Delo 80W-90 in my S2000's diff.

I suspect the car was driven the same way as always (can't teach an old dog new tricks?).
I haven't seen enough UOA's to answer the which diff wears more question. But my old Tundra rear open diff showed virtually no wear using 1605 for 30k miles.
 
Since DUOLEC is proprietary and owned by LE, I doubt whether anyone in the know could discuss it here without some serious liability issues. I don't think Boron would be in the equation, but could be wrong.
 
Here is my most recent Polaris UOA of 1605 in the S2000. 6/21/2014 sample after almost 2 years and 7,146 miles/72,406 total. Reference oil is 2nd number:

Iron 17/1
Chromium 0/0
Nickel 1/0
Aluminum 0/0
Copper 0/0
Lead 0/0
Tin 3/0
Cadmium 0/0
Silver 0/0
Vanadium 0/0
Silicon 3/0
Sodium 1/0
Potassium 0/0
Titanium 0/0
Molybdenum 0/3
Antimony 1/0
Manganese 0/0
Lithium 0/1
Boron 38/88
Magnesium 3/0
Calcium 6/6
Barium 0/0
Phosphorus 1060/1154
Zinc 6/4
Water V100C 20.1 cSt/V40C 222 cSt
TAN 2.26/1.78

I have this gear oil in my Tundra and 4Runner rear diffs too. I will sample and test those as well.
 
Good Showing.

LE's Duolec is their designation for their proprietary PI and uses the latest EP additive components.
 
I drive a 2004 S2000 with an Inline Pro, Stage 1 turbo kit. It's producing 407 RWHP at 19.5 PSI, and 385 at 17.5.

It spins both rear tires wildly in 1st and 2nd. On cooler days, 3rd gear is useless too.

Recently, I heard a bit of a clicking sound while rolling to a stop. Also a new "whine" upon throttle lift at low speeds. So, I immediately suspected the differential. So, I removed it and disassembled.

The oil (supposedly Amsoil from prev owner) came out clear/red. The internal parts were covered in jet black sludge, which cleaned off in the parts washer with a bit of elbow grease.

The internal parts looked perfect, so I suspect my clicking noise is from the axle nut. The whine just a normal rear gear whine has gotten worse over time.

Anyway, I'm removing the 4.10 gearset, and installing a 3.63 ratio. Since my engine makes peak torque at 5000 RPM, and pulls very hard from 3500 on up, this should be a good choice. I'll enjoy the reduced RPM here in straight and flat South Florida.

I'm open to gear lube suggestions. Remember, it's hot, humid and the car sees high speeds and high loads regularly.
 
I would suggest anything in the 75W110 category such as the LE above, Amsoil SVG, or the Redline flavor of the 75W110.
 
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