German oil fullsynthetic and synthesetechnologie

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Dear friend i just noticed that in Germany any oil are labelled like "full synthetic" (VOLLSYNTHESE) (ex.:Castrol 0w30) and other "synthetic technology" (synthesetechnologie) (Mobil 1 0w40, all 5w30 and all 5w40, etc.). The problem is that all German Oil labelled as synthesetechnologie are the same oil labelled full synthetic in Italy. So I can assume that in Germany the label rules are more astringent.

The point is: the 98% of top oil are labelled as synthesetechnologie and very very few oils are labelled fullsynthetic so I can imagine that, in practice, is the same thing. Is it right? Or there any practical difference?
 
In Germany, you are legally required to label hydrocracked (Group III) oils as "Synthetic Technology". You're only allowed to label a product "Full Synthetic" or "Vollsynthetisches" if it's PAO (Group IV) based, or ester (Group V) based if I remember correctly.
 
Thats true Falcon. To make matters even more confusing and many would say worse for the consumer they have included GTL (a true full synthetic) as group III+.
This could be twisted with advertising into adding undeserved additional credibility to group III as a whole.

LM and others still have Vollsynthetisches Öl on the market.
 
Thanks for replies boys.
But the point is: i buy the oil in Germany via Ebay. 98% of the oil are "synthetic technology", and just 2 or 3 oil are labelled as fullsynthetic.
So I wonder, it still makes sense to choose a fullsynthetic over a "synthetic technology" and, consequently, greatly limiting my choices?
 
I would buy whichever oil meets the requirements of your vehicle and leave it at that. Some people get hung up over the differences. M1 0w40 is considered by many to be the standard in the US because of how well it performs in Euro cars and it is not considered full syn in Germany. In a daily driver I would argue that all oils with the same OEM cert would perform essentially the same. This is what matters most. Everything else is secondary. Outside Germany "Synthetic " is a marketing term.
 
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I would say its a question of price more than actual performance, remember full synthetics cost $100 a gallon or more in some Euro countries.
If they are charging "full synthetic" prices for group III its a rip off.

Its like buying a gold watch and getting one with a thick gold plate.
It looks like gold, because the plating is thick it wears well, the movement maybe the same so it keeps time with the same accuracy but would you pay 1600 bucks an ounce for it.
If i am paying the price for the real deal i want the real deal.
 
Originally Posted By: Vincenzo_f
Originally Posted By: Oub
u can buy here :
http://www.meguin-shop.de/
u have both synthetic and HC , choose what you want .
here's the list for Full Synthetic :
http://www.meguin.de/meguin/produktdb.ns...nt000013f6.html


It's curious to note that all full synthetic by Meguin and Liqui Moly meet LL-08 spec, whereas all synthetic technology oils meets LL-01. Nothing major, just a note.


I'm assuming you mean LL98 and it does seem that the oils with the newer certs are like that when you're talking 5w-30/40 weight.
 
Originally Posted By: Vincenzo_f
Thanks for replies boys.
But the point is: i buy the oil in Germany via Ebay.
...So I wonder, it still makes sense to choose a fullsynthetic over a "synthetic technology" and, consequently, greatly limiting my choices?


Since you are in Italy, would it be cheaper to use the 6-leg doggie logo oil ? (ENI-AGIP Olio Motore Sintetico)
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
This could be twisted with advertising into adding undeserved additional credibility to group III as a whole.



Youre assuming that there is a practical difference and inferiority under use for the non-GTL grp III oils.

While they may flow a bit less and have a slightly reduced oxidation resistance, they are close and may not be a big issue. Too many get all swoony over grp IV or V. Its easy to get oils that are "fully" IV or V, but few have the pocketbook to pay. They just think they are entitled to Mobil ot Sopus or castrol to give it to them at discount and then complain about it when something else that is equivalent for all intents and purposes is utilized to retain price point.
 
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Youre assuming that there is a practical difference and inferiority under use for the non-GTL grp III oils.

I dont believe its an assumption.
Everything that has been posted about and sites that were linked to show its NOAK to be very similar to PAO.
If that is the case then wouldn't you say that it does in fact make regular group III inferior in comparison?

Maybe thats why they added the + sign, but just the fact its called group III many people will just overlook the + and assume all group III is this good.

Please don't misunderstand my comment. I don't deny that there are top performing group III IV blends that perform almost as well as PAO but i just don't think i should be paying group IV and V prices for them.

In Europe there is no reduced price from the big producers they are charging exactly the same as they were before.
At least in the US they throw group III at you low prices, $70 less a gallon in some cases.

Just playing a little Devils advocate thats all.
 
All Im saying is that for most users and most applications, the added benefit of reduced noack, etc. may be a useless point. It may not come into question in terms of practical benefit.

For some apps it may well make a big difference.

My point is what is a grp IV and V price for the III/PAO or whatever blends?

If the baseline costing for a IV/V is what redline charges per quart, then we can comfortably say that the M1 you buy at walmart is fairly priced, because it is FAR less $ per quart.
 
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then we can comfortably say that the M1 you buy at walmart is fairly priced

Oh i agree in the US market its more than fair one might say its downright cheap. Great product at a great price no issues!

The OP is in Italy and that same product will cost upwards of 20 Euro a ltr. At that price its no bargain when you can a full PAO brand name for the same money or in the case of LM sometimes even cheaper.

I guess the question is this from a US point of view.
Would you pay the same or more for Mobil 1 5w30 not even the EP than Redline or Amsoil SSO? Personally I wouldn't.
The US has IMO the best oil for the unbelievably low prices, i have paid more than $300 (240 Euros) for an oil change in Germany for a big sump MB.
 
What about places like Oil-store.de? I know people here in Finland ordering VW 504.00/507.00 oils because they are cheaper than here 7,50€ vs 12,50€/l.
 
But it's still the same stuff? No point selling some better PAO/unobtanium based stuff in scandinavia where there are no rules/laws restricting what can be labeled fullsynthetic.

Mobil super is sold as fullsynthetic though it's inferior to the Mobil 1 line, and many oils that where labeled synthetic are now labeled fullsynthetic.
 
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Try Motul :
http://www.ebay.de/itm/MOTUL-Specific-VW...=item27a62b4dbf
i don't use here in France , very expensive
frown.gif

i hate Castrol , don't know why
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, very very expensive also.
 
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