Overfilled Trans on 2003 Lexus ES300

[artbuc]

Just did a d/f on a family friend's 2003 ES300. It has 113k miles and an indie shop serviced the trans at 98k charging/claiming they dropped the pan and replaced the filter.

I was surprised at how dirty the fluid was considering only 15k miles since last service. Also, the trans was overfilled by a full 2 1/4 qts! On the 98k service, the owner was charged for 6 qts of ATF but a d/f yields only 3.3. Guess you get a little more when you drop the pan. I'm thinking they did a d/f only and added 6 qts or they just added a couple qts without removing any old fluid. Who knows?

In any event, the old fluid was not foamy so can I assume the 2 1/4 qt overfill caused no harm? Thanks.

 

[zanzabar]

Almost every auto trans I've d/f'ed has been overfilled by 2qts or so. None have reported loss of function because of it though. When I refill I put at specified level and they continue to run fine.

The dirty color is just because so much is left inside that it never really does come clean. Multiple d/f's over a relatively short time are effective enough IMO at removing a good portion of the gunk that has settled on the bottom of the pan and replenishing the fluid add pack.

 

[Eddie]

Over filling an AT is not good because the fluid expands and can cause foaming. This can cause havoc with seals and over heating due to churning. I have seen over filled AT blow fluid out the dipstick hole.

 

[montero1]

I can verify the trans only holds 3.5 or so, I just did a drain and fill (actually 3, to get all the old stuff out) on my nephews '01 ES300. Fluid had over 155k on it, came out looking like motor oil, but had the consistency of water.

 

[dparm]

I would think that you might have issues with foaming.

 

[Rand]

was it actually overfilled or was he just overcharged?

you dont mention seeing it physically overfilled?

usually a D/F gets 40-60% of the fluid out so its not surprising that it still looks really dirty.

if the fluid was in rough shape when the D/F was done you usually need to do 2-3x with a couple days between them.

 

[LeakySeals]

On my Camry a d/f is just under 4qts by the book. At first, I was shocked that it was over. I checked it again after a day and it was right on. Same thing on the corolla. Guess it takes a while for the new fluid to work its way back into all the nooks and cranny's of the tranny.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: Rand
was it actually overfilled or was he just overcharged?

you dont mention seeing it physically overfilled?

usually a D/F gets 40-60% of the fluid out so its not surprising that it still looks really dirty.

if the fluid was in rough shape when the D/F was done you usually need to do 2-3x with a couple days between them.


First, I checked the dipstick before I started and it was way over. I carefully measured what came out-5 3/4 qts. It took 3.5 qts to bring it to the right level. Owners Manual says 3.3 qts required, but 3.5 is close enough.

I have owned a couple Lexus (RX300 and LS400) and 5 different Toyota sedans and SUV's. I never wait more than 30k to start my trans d/f's so my fluid never got that bad. On my 99 Avalon, I did do a 100% replacement through the cooler line when I had to make a switch to Dex6.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
On my Camry a d/f is just under 4qts by the book. At first, I was shocked that it was over. I checked it again after a day and it was right on. Same thing on the corolla. Guess it takes a while for the new fluid to work its way back into all the nooks and cranny's of the tranny.

Also the receipts may be generic, ie "up to" 6qts for that price. And you checked it while the engine was running, right?


Yes, with engine at normal operating temp and after running through the gears, I measured with engine running and trans in Park.

 

[LeakySeals]

Yeah, sounds like you know what your doing. You had already responded by the time I removed that question. You can always let some out in a day or 2. I run a little over the hot mark, I see less air bubbles when I do that. Not sure if that's right, but it hasn't caused me any trouble.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Yeah, sounds like you know what your doing. You had already responded by the time I removed that question. You can always let some out in a day or 2. I run a little over the hot mark, I see less air bubbles when I do that. Not sure if that's right, but it hasn't caused me any trouble.


To clarify, I didn't overfill. I added 3.5 qts and it was right on. The car was overfilled before it got to me, presumably at the 98k service.

 

[JustinC25]

My old Camry took 1.75 qts in the trans and it was perfect.
But it was a 4cyl with the diff seperate.

I over filled it one time with 2qts. And it started shifting weird.
Drained and filled again, and it shifted fine.

Toyota transmissions are very sensitive to over filling.

I changed a trans on a 97 Camry once. (4CYL)
with a junk yard trans that had been throughly drained, and it only took 6 quarts.

I think that the shop just over charged the op.

Also every Toyota transmission I've ever seen (and I've seen many) turns the fluid black in 10-15k miles.
I've also confirmed this with a local transmission shop. They said it has to do with the material in the clutch packs, and color is not necessarily a good indicator of the fluid's condition.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: JustinC25
My old Camry took 1.75 qts in the trans and it was perfect.
But it was a 4cyl with the diff seperate.

I over filled it one time with 2qts. And it started shifting weird.
Drained and filled again, and it shifted fine.

Toyota transmissions are very sensitive to over filling.

I changed a trans on a 97 Camry once. (4CYL)
with a junk yard trans that had been throughly drained, and it only took 6 quarts.

I think that the shop just over charged the op.

Also every Toyota transmission I've ever seen (and I've seen many) turns the fluid black in 10-15k miles.
I've also confirmed this with a local transmission shop. They said it has to do with the material in the clutch packs, and color is not necessarily a good indicator of the fluid's condition.


Justin, as I mentioned, I have owned 7 Toyota and Lexus cars dating back to 1974 and none of them showed significant ATF color change in 10-15k miles or any mileage. I also have worked on many other Toyota/Lexus cars owned by friends and family members, none of which had black ATF.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: JustinC25
My old Camry took 1.75 qts in the trans and it was perfect.
But it was a 4cyl with the diff seperate.

I over filled it one time with 2qts. And it started shifting weird.
Drained and filled again, and it shifted fine.

Toyota transmissions are very sensitive to over filling.

I changed a trans on a 97 Camry once. (4CYL)
with a junk yard trans that had been throughly drained, and it only took 6 quarts.

I think that the shop just over charged the op.

Also every Toyota transmission I've ever seen (and I've seen many) turns the fluid black in 10-15k miles.
I've also confirmed this with a local transmission shop. They said it has to do with the material in the clutch packs, and color is not necessarily a good indicator of the fluid's condition.


Justin, as I mentioned, I have owned 7 Toyota and Lexus cars dating back to 1974 and none of them showed significant ATF color change in 10-15k miles or any mileage. I also have worked on many other Toyota/Lexus cars owned by friends and family members, none of which had black ATF.

Agreed, I see a slight discoloration at 30k using drain and fills. Nothing major. Never had a Toyota transmission fail at any miles. I've been 1/2 qt over before, no problems. Why would there be? Only so much oil can fit, the rest would overflow from the stick.

 

[hypervish]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: artbuc
Originally Posted By: JustinC25
My old Camry took 1.75 qts in the trans and it was perfect.
But it was a 4cyl with the diff seperate.

I over filled it one time with 2qts. And it started shifting weird.
Drained and filled again, and it shifted fine.

Toyota transmissions are very sensitive to over filling.

I changed a trans on a 97 Camry once. (4CYL)
with a junk yard trans that had been throughly drained, and it only took 6 quarts.

I think that the shop just over charged the op.

Also every Toyota transmission I've ever seen (and I've seen many) turns the fluid black in 10-15k miles.
I've also confirmed this with a local transmission shop. They said it has to do with the material in the clutch packs, and color is not necessarily a good indicator of the fluid's condition.


Justin, as I mentioned, I have owned 7 Toyota and Lexus cars dating back to 1974 and none of them showed significant ATF color change in 10-15k miles or any mileage. I also have worked on many other Toyota/Lexus cars owned by friends and family members, none of which had black ATF.

Agreed, I see a slight discoloration at 30k using drain and fills. Nothing major. Never had a Toyota transmission fail at any miles. I've been 1/2 qt over before, no problems. Why would there be? Only so much oil can fit, the rest would overflow from the stick.


Same here, I've owned multiple Toyota/Lexus products, and none of them have changed the ATF color within' 15k miles.

 

[JustinC25]

Ok maybe I misspoke, the fluid doesn't turn BLACK, but it does darken significantly. I've owned and serviced MANY Toyota vehicles in my life. I also worked for a Toyota dealer as a tech for a few years. As for the Trans shop that confirmed this for me, here is there contact info for anyone who doesn't believe me:
Trans Medic Transmission Clinic
12 Rockingham Rd Route28, Windham, NH 03087
(603) 965-2660

The current Toyota fleet that I service includes:
2- 2010 Camry's, 05 RX330, 99 Solara, 99 Camry, 93 Camry, 08 TC,
03 Camry, 93 Truck, 95 Camry, 97 Camry, 00 Camry, 01 Camry, and occasionally my mom's 05 Rav 4 when my dad doesn't have time.
These are mostly friends, & family member's cars, but some of them are customers. There are also a number of non Toyota's that I service too.

 

[SuperDave456]

From what I hear a bunch of the new transmissions, such as CVT's, have carbon fiber parts. Those will turn ATF black in a hurry. I'd imagine that this is more true of a new transmission than of one that has had several drain and fills.

However, I have never personally seen this. This is just passing discussion with other folks that own and service their transmissions.

 

[Burny]

I have owned a 91 4runner since I bought ti new. 251,000 on it now. I replaced the radiator a few months ago and lost some ATF from the coolant lines and figured it to be about a quart. A week later was on a trip and about 150 miles into the trip, the A/T fluid temp light came on the dash. Pulled over and let it cool and didn't see the light again for the remaining 100 miles. Did the same trip 2 weeks later and the light comes on again. I drained a quart out. Have made the same trip three times since then and have not seen the light. Fluid is cherry red and no burn smell. My mom is in the hospital so I will be making this trip countless times this year.