thin perhaps not as good as i thought

[salgra]

Good day fellow oil lovers. (long post)

I am a member of the thin oil club, however i always believed sufficient hths was important.

about a year ago my parents bought a new KIA Rio( 1.25 engine, i maintain it) and I bought a KIA Picanto ( 1.0 engine ) and a Mitsubishi ASX ( 1.6 petrol engine). so 3 new 0 km cars.
Always doing my own oil change on all three.

After 10000KM each vehicle, i switched them all over to Kroon oil 0w20 A3/b4 ( Yes I called kroon to confirm A3/b4 and hths )
link to the oil:

http://www.kroon-oil.com/en/products/cat...b-omschrijving/

After the first 10000 Km all three had negligible blow-by. if you took of the oil filler cap, idle running warm engine, there was almost No air coming from it.

After about 6 months, i decided to check blow-by again (same way off course) The Rio, afther 10000km on the 0w20 is blowing like crazy. the ASX afther 12000KM on the 0w20 even worse then our 320000KM hard life 3.2 diesel pajero. upon removing the filler cap, really high pressure air was escaping from it! oil got every where! The ASX and RIO are driven a lot that's why the already have 10k and 12K on the 0w20.
The picanto only has 2K on the 0w20 and isn't having blow-by yet. although it appears to be more than the factory fill Total 5w40 the dealer put in all three cars when the where delivered.

is the 0w20 destroing the cylinder walls?

Afther 5w40 for 10K all three cars have close to no blow by at all! and 10k later at 0w20 they blow even more than the old perhaps worn 3.2 did pajero.

It really got me worried.
thinking about switching the picanto back to 5w40 asap. and the other's too.

all three cars are driven about the same way. always warmed up carefully, and cruised quite high speed. no wild acceleration's or racing.

What do you guys think of it.

per manual:

ASX: any oil viscosity from 0w20 to 20w50 in my climate is allowed at least api sl or sm. it say's as a side note: 0w20 0w30 5w30 0w40 can only be used if they meet acea a5/b5 or a3/b4. all others api sl minumum.

picanto say's all oil viscosity's 0w20 to 20w50. minimum api sm and or ilsac gf4

Rio same as picanto, but max viscosity 10w40.

I am really puzzled, judging by blow-by these are really are looking like old engine's having 300K.

 

[LeakySeals]

Before you are bombarded with "Nah, cant be, no worries", I applaud you for stepping forward..

 

[INDYMAC]

This is an interesting post. Any oil consumption? The reason I ask is that Toyota states that 1.1 quarts per 600 miles is normal oil consumption using their 0W-20 engine oil in the 1GR-FE.

Thanks for posting.

 

[CATERHAM]

First let me say you were warned in the following thread that there is no such thing as an A3/B4 0W-20 oil with a HTHSV of 3.5cP:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2493992&page=1

If an A3/B4 oil was specified that's what you should have used.
Without getting into a lot of conjecture, if you're going to get involved in high speed driving I'd council the use of at least a light 0W/5W-30 A1/A5 oil especially if you don't have an oil pressure gauge to monitor your operational viscosity.

 

[bepperb]

I'm not sure I have much confidence in your test. If you really wanted to check you would really need a compression gauge.

I also doubt you've damaged anything but you'd really need to do a compression test to see. Do a test dry then another with a few drops of oil to seal the rings. We're interested in the difference between before and after adding oil and the differences between the cylinders.

 

[salgra]

INDYMAC; all three cars almost zero oil consumption.

CATERHAM; If you look at it that way, how do you think of this.

The ASX apparently needs HTHS 2.9 Minimum.
The Rio and Picanto apparently need HTHS 2.6 Minimum.
So even if there is no such thing as a 0w20 a3/b4 ( altough I found some more of these on different brands but that's a different discussion.) The 0w20 clearly meets the 2.6 at least going by the assumption kroon is falsification there specs. because of the api sm rating. so the Rio and picanto should be ok. but they are not.

As for high speed driving the temperature charts clearly show ( all 3 cars ) 0w20 has no upper temp limit )

Please remember, I am merely stating my observation's not my opinion's . i have an open mind to this.

 

[Gebo]

salgra,

The blow by observation is very interesting. I'm gonna do a little checking on my own. Hmmm....

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Before you are bombarded with "Nah, cant be, no worries", I applaud you for stepping forward..

Yep this should be good!

 

[salgra]

okay guy's changed the rio to shell helix ultra 5w40, and changed filter. took it for a spin.
blow by is the same, still horible

 

[oggb]

It's normal to get puffs of air out of the oil filler with the engine running depending upon the vehicle. If the air were as "high pressure" as you describe it'd almost certainly blow the dipstick out.

This is absolutely normal behavior IMO. If it's not burning oil and there isn't *smoke* coming out of the oil filler there's nothing to worry about.

Get someone to get in the car and give it some gas (2000 RPM or so) - it should go away and you might even get some vacuum.

 

[salgra]

JRed, i know that. and blow by is normal. but these engine's went from almost nothing to quite a lot ( like a high milage diesel ) in 10k KM . and i am aware what normal blowby is

 

[Zaedock]

Salgra, is there any oil in the engine's fresh air intake (for the PCV system)? It would be located either in the air filter housing or air intake tube between the air filter and throttle body.

Personally, I doubt that 0W20 caused any damage at all. In fact, 0W20's are typically robust compared to their 5W20 counterparts.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: salgra
okay guy's changed the rio to shell helix ultra 5w40, and changed filter. took it for a spin.
blow by is the same, still horible

I won't say the 0W-20 caused your condition but once it develops, no oil is likely to stop it, at least instantly...

Even at idle the PCV system will usually remove all the blow-by vapors so none is seen with the oil filler removed... At least that been the case on the vehicles I've owned over the last 40 years that had good engines... Yeah I've owned a few that would launch the dipstick on hard acceleration...

Any chance you could observe blow-by in other vehicles like yours that had been operated on the thicker oils???

 

[Trav]

How often do these cars get over the border and run in Germany?
Take a small piece of paper and cover the oil fill with the engine running, it should have enough vacuum to hold the paper in place at idle if equipped with a PCV valve.

Blowby as you describe doesn't sound normal (i imagine its puffing like and old worn engine out the fill hole) in a young engine, are the cars still under warranty?

 

[chiks]

How is air coming out of the oil filler cap considered as blow by?

 

[Ram01]

I hope the 5w40 works for you. Good luck. I hope it was not the use of 0w20 motor oil that cause the problem

 

[LeakySeals]

No doubt the generic recommendation on here is thin. But its based on chemistry, not the mechanical state of the engine. Can I run 0w20 in my 02 Camry? Yeah, but the consequences of doing so is heavy oil consumption. Blow-by from the rings and the valve seals. Nothing to do with the oil's ability to protect my engine.

I can only blame myself for making the choice to use thin oil on a mechanically challenged engine.

 

[SargeBB]

This is an interesting topic to me. We live in the heat of a dusty semi-desert rural West-Texas environment. My old work car is a 17 year old V-6 Camry with almost 300,000 miles. I've been using Mobil-1 10W-40 in it since appx. the 225,000 mark. 7,500 OCI & about a cup-full of usage between changes. The last change I used an old 5-qt. bottle of 10W-30, as I was out of the 10/40. It used almost a qt. of the 10/30 in 7K, so I went back to the 10W-40 M-1.
I DO use the recommended viscosities during the 60K powertrain warranties in cars (not pickups, which we use for towing), but change to heavier viscosities afterwards due to our unique environmental conditions, following viscosity recommendations for Toyota/Australia.
Other than the old Camry: (All Mobil-1--NOT that it's the only great oil, because it's certainly not)...
08 Tacoma 4WD 2.7L 70,000 miles & 03 Tundra 4WD 4.7L 139,000 mi. both 5W-40 TDT and 2010 Camry V-6 30,000 mi. 5W-30.
All engines run almost silently, no blow-by & no oil usage.
I'm sure xxW-20 is fine for many uses and environments, but I quite frankly trust my results for my situation more than I do the EPA-motivated viscosity requirements. Further, I believe (with absolutely no proof to back up this belief) that Australian/European viscosity recommendations more accurately reflect Toyota (GM/Ford, etc.)engineers' best viscosity recommendations for different conditions than do pressures for gasoline mileage immpovements from our own EPA bureaucrats. Maximum gas mileage is their goal. Engine longivity and reliability is my goal.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: chiks
How is air coming out of the oil filler cap considered as blow by?


Because that's air/combustion gasses from the crankcase, that has made its way past the rings.

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted By: SargeBB
This is an interesting topic to me. We live in the heat of a dusty semi-desert rural West-Texas environment. My old work car is a 17 year old V-6 Camry with almost 300,000 miles. I've been using Mobil-1 10W-40 in it since appx. the 225,000 mark. 7,500 OCI & about a cup-full of usage between changes. The last change I used an old 5-qt. bottle of 10W-30, as I was out of the 10/40. It used almost a qt. of the 10/30 in 7K, so I went back to the 10W-40 M-1.
I DO use the recommended viscosities during the 60K powertrain warranties in cars (not pickups, which we use for towing), but change to heavier viscosities afterwards due to our unique environmental conditions, following viscosity recommendations for Toyota/Australia.
Other than the old Camry: (All Mobil-1--NOT that it's the only great oil, because it's certainly not)...
08 Tacoma 4WD 2.7L 70,000 miles & 03 Tundra 4WD 4.7L 139,000 mi. both 5W-40 TDT and 2010 Camry V-6 30,000 mi. 5W-30.
All engines run almost silently, no blow-by & no oil usage.
I'm sure xxW-20 is fine for many uses and environments, but I quite frankly trust my results for my situation more than I do the EPA-motivated viscosity requirements. Further, I believe (with absolutely no proof to back up this belief) that Australian/European viscosity recommendations more accurately reflect Toyota (GM/Ford, etc.)engineers' best viscosity recommendations for different conditions than do pressures for gasoline mileage immpovements from our own EPA bureaucrats. Maximum gas mileage is their goal. Engine longivity and reliability is my goal.


I couldn't have said it better myself.