Recent Topics
when to replace a battery
by ram_man
09/21/14 12:48 PM
AAP $50 off $100+ first 2000 customers.
by sayjac
09/21/14 12:25 PM
going a full year with slight fuel dilution
by phillyFX4
09/21/14 11:31 AM
Amazon.ca experiences
by Falken
09/21/14 11:26 AM
Ford 6F35: What have we learned?
by W_John_C
09/21/14 11:12 AM
2015 Subaru WRX
by lawman1909
09/21/14 11:08 AM
Thoughts on the Wix Combo Valve
by sir1900
09/21/14 10:36 AM
FREE BMW E30 E36 3 BR34007 Disc Brake Rotors
by qjohn
09/21/14 08:48 AM
3 labs test amsoil ATM 10w30 VOA
by pb
09/21/14 08:23 AM
electric/hydraulic brakes for boat trailer
by Donald
09/21/14 08:19 AM
Cleaner Rec for Marble Countertop and Hardwood Flr
by The Critic
09/21/14 03:24 AM
Mixed up the hairstyling today...
by GumbyJarvis
09/21/14 02:00 AM
Newest Members
DaveinJAXFL, Oro_O, zondexus, 35ruger, pp4
51364 Registered Users
Who's Online
77 registered (aerogt01, Astro14, 1foxracing, 6x6man, 147_Grain, abycat, 7 invisible), 1802 Guests and 179 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
51364 Members
64 Forums
219576 Topics
3465710 Posts

Max Online: 2862 @ 07/07/14 03:10 PM
Donate to BITOG

Topic Options
#2694085 - 07/24/12 04:42 PM Signs of an oily clutch
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33626
Loc: New Jersey
My 1991 BMW seems to leak a little bit of oil though I can't trace it. Perhaps it burns it though there's no real indication in the exhaust and no smoke. It has the original clutch at 150,000 miles. I'm wondering though about what happens when a rear main seal leaks onto the clutch.

The reason I ask is because when I start off in first gear, the clutch starts to grab just fine. At about the last quarter of the clutch pedal motion, instead of fully catching up it almost feels as if there is a slippage and then it locks up hard. Maybe it is a shuddering sensation as a good way to describe it.

So because of this I'm wondering if there could be oil on the flywheel or clutch that causes such a behavior. It is very intermittent and there is no signs of clutch slippage using any of the typical tests. That's why I have to wonder if there is just a slow leak of oil onto the flywheel that maybe just burns off after a shift or two.

Even if this happens generally if I am shifting a lot in and out of different gears and using the clutch, it will not happen again until I sit for a long time, like either at a long stoplight or turned off the car to park for a few minutes.

So what would it feel like if I had oil on the clutch?

Top
#2694089 - 07/24/12 04:47 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
SteveSRT8 Offline


Registered: 10/10/08
Posts: 14774
Loc: Sunny Florida
My old 65 TR4 had a bad rear seal and leaked on the clutch.

It felt exactly as a worn one would, and my test has always been to apply full throttle at peak torque in high gear, perhaps 4th in your case.

Your symptoms sound more like a bad throwout bearing or perhaps a bad slave cylinder/master cylinder
_________________________
"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix

Top
#2694101 - 07/24/12 04:55 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6256
Loc: Texas
It takes a pretty big rear main leak to actually get on the clutch material in most vehicles. The leak is on the opposite side of the flywheel from where the clutch is, so it has to be leaking fast enough to fling off the flywheel, drench the inside the bellhousing and then drip back onto the clutch. In other words, you usually can SEE oil on the ground long before it would ever get on the clutch.

If I had to guess, yours sounds like the pressure plate is hanging as you release the pedal then snapping the rest of the way in quickly. Maybe because the clutch is worn and the fork (or slave cylinder- not sure how your vehicle is made) is hitting an area of travel near the end of its range.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

Top
#2694112 - 07/24/12 05:05 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33626
Loc: New Jersey
The clutch may be worn given the number of miles on it, but it fully grabs under any test that I do such as those mentioned just above.

Both the slave cylinder and the throwout bearing wear from use, correct? I almost entirely drive stop and go, stop lights and traffic, so a use related wear out would be expected. I never keep the clutch pedal pressed though.

Could it be that the clutch is worn to the end of life but yet grabs fully? I assume I would do the full clutch assembly and slave cylinder all at once not just one or the other? You always do the master if you do the slave, right?

Top
#2694138 - 07/24/12 05:28 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
JRed Offline


Registered: 06/01/09
Posts: 1633
Loc: Virginia
It isn't at all necessary to change the slave cylinder when changing the clutch, but it could make the job MUCH easier depending on where yours is.

I've never heard the "always do the master if you do the slave" either. I suppose it's sound logic, but I don't hear of master cylinders failing that often. Then again - maybe dead men tell no tales, eh?
_________________________
06 Subaru Impreza WRX - Sold. The only mechanical thing I'll ever love.
07 Toyota Prius - Cheap synthetic and PureOne filters.

Top
#2694146 - 07/24/12 05:38 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
TFB1 Offline


Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 2622
Loc: VA
A chattering clutch can be a indication it has gotten some oil on it... With heavy amount of oil, they generally slip with more than light/moderate throttle...

Top
#2694167 - 07/24/12 06:00 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
JamesBond Offline


Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 348
Loc: midwest
Your description of normal operation during the first part of clutch uptake, then a feeling of slippage, then a hard lock up as you finally take your foot off is exactly how my '87 325 felt when I had a front transmission seal leak. Sometimes it was more obvious than others but was most noticeable on a fast start or during faster driving. The clutch never slipped when flooring it in gear and would always grab hard when you finally let your foot off the clutch.

My clutch had been replaced within a few years so i knew it was not a clutch wear issue but with your miles on the original clutch it could be just worn out.

Top
#2694172 - 07/24/12 06:05 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
silverrat Online   content


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 1198
Loc: Ontario
I have this happening to my Accord. Slow clutch fluid loss but no leaks.
_________________________
03 Civic Si - Assembled in Swindon, England
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20 - OEM Honda

Top
#2694178 - 07/24/12 06:15 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
Lead Shoes Offline


Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 2372
Loc: Mn
Sounds to me like a worn clutch, you would be able to see the oil dripping before you would get it on the clutch.

If it bothers you enough and you plan to keep the vehicle a lot longer, replace the clutch otherwise just try not to notice it and get used to it.
_________________________
1992 BMW 325i M50b25 157k
M1 0w40/Mahle
1995 Honda Civic - Built B17A1
Valv Vr-1 10w30/P1

Formerly Brenden.

Top
#2694218 - 07/24/12 06:58 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
fdcg27 Online   content


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 9261
Loc: OH
The clutch in our '99 Accord worked just fine with no slip at all until it abruptly failed in service last fall.
When I say "failed" I mean that the vehicle lost all drive in any gear while being driven down an interstate highway.
New disc, pressure plate, throwout bearing and flywheel (micro cracking) and all was like new again.
_________________________
12 Accord LX 22K HGMO 0W-20
09 Forester 64K PU 5W-30
02 Accord 127K G-Oil 5W-30
01 Focus ZX3 98K Synpower 10W-30
95 BMW 318iC 146K Defy 10W-40

Top
#2694233 - 07/24/12 07:14 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: silverrat]
TFB1 Offline


Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 2622
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: silverrat
I have this happening to my Accord. Slow clutch fluid loss but no leaks.


It doesn't evaporate...

Top
#2694250 - 07/24/12 07:29 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JamesBond]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33626
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: JamesBond
Your description of normal operation during the first part of clutch uptake, then a feeling of slippage, then a hard lock up as you finally take your foot off is exactly how my '87 325 felt when I had a front transmission seal leak. Sometimes it was more obvious than others but was most noticeable on a fast start or during faster driving. The clutch never slipped when flooring it in gear and would always grab hard when you finally let your foot off the clutch.



Mine may be the same trans, and it is a good point that I should try to check/change the mtf perhaps if I find it to be low, it would be an indication. The amsoil fluid holds shift feel much better than redline so I haven't changed it in a few years.

Top
#2694562 - 07/25/12 06:53 AM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
supton Offline


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 4651
Loc: NH
I've had that feeling on first a Saturn and then my VW. The Saturn would not have it after letting the dealer do an oil change though; I'm guessing the grease monkeys might not drive as nicely as I do... I generally had full clutch engagement around 1000-1200rpm IIRC on the Saturn, still do on my VW. [It hurts to drive the Camry.]

I don't know if it's a drive-by-wire issue on my VW as it is only felt when cold really. Just this sudden lurch as it finishes catching, maybe it's more throttle related. Been doing it for a long time, yet it just got a new clutch at the begining of summer (bad DMF--thanks VW for more stellar engineering) and there was no issue with the clutch disc, oil contaimination, etc.
_________________________
2004 VW Jetta Wagon, TDI, 5spd manual, 299kmile, his
2011 Toyota Camry, base, 6spd manual, 78k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra double cab, 4.6L, auto, 88k

Top
#2695055 - 07/25/12 04:01 PM Re: Signs of an oily clutch [Re: JHZR2]
mechtech2 Offline


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 19479
Loc: Chicago Area
A real bad rear seal leak can get on the clutch. It slings all over and then drips down on it.
Normally, a little leak is designed to never hit the clutch - it just goes down and away.
Anyways, an odd thing with fluid on brakes or clutches is that they can actually grab, not slip. The heated goo often makes it grabby.
Is this grabby cold then gets better?
The rubber or metal dampers in the disc can go bad, There is an on/off sensation instead of a smooth transition.
If she does not slip when driving, this may be the problem.

Top